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What the local dealerships are using to lube the rear splines

8K views 42 replies 18 participants last post by  akrider 
#1 · (Edited)
I went in to get some some Moly60 at the Honda dealership today. $24.22!!!
Nope, I`m not going to pay that much for rear spline lube, I tell the sales guy.
He says their service department uses the "BelRay" synthetic grease for splines.
It comes in 16 oz tubs and sells for $9.99 + tax. (Same tub sells for $7.99 at Yami/Kaw dealership).


Then went to the Kaw shop to price out some stuff for a fork oil change and seal replacement. Neither dealer had 15W BelRay fork oil. They had other weight but not 15W. They did have 15W in "Motul" brand. Is this a good brand?

I asked what their service shop used for rear spline lube. Sales guy first tells me they use some Yamaha labled grease in a 16 oz tub.
I tell him Kaw recommends high moly grease for the job, and there is no moly mentioned on the label.

Sales guy goes back to shelf and takes 2-3 minutes to come back with a tub of the same of BelRay grease that the Honda shop supposedly uses. (I don`t trust what sales guys tell me any more). I tell him it doesn`t say moly either.

Now he goes to ask the service manger what they use. He comes back with a big tube of Lubriplate Assembly Lube.
I say it doesn`t have any moly on the label either.

Calling any professional mechanics,--How long will Assembly Lube stand up to abuse in the spline coupling? I thought it was just a temporary lube to be used when reassambling an engine, and it more or less dissolves and blends in with the engine oil as soon as the engine warms up the first time.

I am disappointed, but not surprised.:(

So what did I buy for the spline lube?
A 90 gm tube of moly based CV Joint lube from NAPA for $3.61.
I don`t know what percentage of moly it contains, but almost certainly less than 60%. I figure my rear tire has ~3,000 miles of life left in it. I will try the CV joint lube now and see how it looks in 3,000 miles when a new tire is due. I figure even wheel bearing grease would last for 3 K miles. I will call this an experiment and my splines will be the guinea pig.:)
 
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#2 ·
man!! It's stories like this that make me darn glad I'm doing my own wrenching and found this forum to do stuff the right way!! The Belray rep was probably in last week and posted a spiff bonus to the sales guy to move some product!! LOL!

I haven't looked OlHoss, but I'm sure in some thread somewhere here..Ron probably stated what to use specifically. Wouldn't think you'd need to torture your splines unnecessarily. A lot can happen in 3k miles.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Any grease is better than none, and the Bel Ray stuff is not bad... Even if it lacks moly.

There is a company called Guard Dog, or something like that, who sell a moly grease that I think is actually better than the Honda stuff.

You can also blow more cash and use Krytox.... the same high temp grease they use in Indy cars...for like 30 bucks an ounce.

If I can find links to these I will post them.

http://guarddogmolylubricants.com/gd570.shtml

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001HWG92I/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/189-4392986-6986530

KM
 
#4 ·
It's Guard Dog Moly Paste. Mine has 73% moly and three years ago cost around $35 for a small jar. Guessing it will be enough for four spline lubes.
 
#5 ·
I have my rear diff out for seal replacements at the moment. Hope the seals come in Friday. I got the Moly Graphite grease from NAPA for the splines. A guy that runs a local repair shop told me to try it, that I'd like it. He's been mechanicing on bikes for 28 years, guess he's learned a few things by now. Anyone used it yet that can give a 'for real' feed back?
 
#6 ·
I have my rear diff out for seal replacements at the moment. Hope the seals come in Friday. I got the Moly Graphite grease from NAPA for the splines. A guy that runs a local repair shop told me to try it, that I'd like it. He's been mechanicing on bikes for 28 years, guess he's learned a few things by now. Anyone used it yet that can give a 'for real' feed back?
Is there a moly content percentage listed on the package?
How many grams/ounces in the tube?
Price?

I`m going to phone NAPA back tomorrow to ask about this product.
If it is better spline lube for a reasonable price I will exchange my cvj lube.
 
#7 ·
I purchased the honda molly grease from the local honda dealership for less than $10 :smiley_th. Found out that my splines had been lubed with some clear lubricant.
So during this tire change, the splines were done (by me) :smiley_th. Last summer had it in the shop for the 6k mile services (supposed to lube splines) :doh:.
 
#8 ·
I used the moly graphite from napa last year when I changed the differential. Put a new tire on this spring so I pulled the diff to re lube the splines and after 4000 miles I have to say the grease had held very well. Had to dig a lot of the old stuff out to re apply the new grease. IMHO it's a good choice.
 
#9 ·
I used the moly graphite from napa last year when
.............. IMHO it's a good choice.
Thanks for the reply Randy. Graphite is alway a good choice on metal. Hoss, I looked at the tube and it didn't say the amount of Moly in it. Tube does say 360degree drop point minimum temp but the website says 550 degree. Lithium 12 Hydroxy Stearate, N.L.G.I. No: Grade 2, Excellent water resistance, Timken OK Load: 40 lbs. 14 oz tube, 4.99 plus tax at my local dealer. I don't speak grease specs so I can't give you a clue on what all that means. It does say that it " establishes a fine micron plating on all working surfaces" and to be sure to remove all other grease so it can establish it's base.
 
#10 ·
I just bought Honda Moly60 at my Honda dealer for $8.95.
 
#11 ·
Maybe I just cheaped out, but I got the SuperTech Moly grease from Wal-Mart. It only came in the tubes for a grease gun instead of the tubs, but it's less than $4 and should last for half a dozen lube procedures.
 
#14 ·
All I know is I lubed my splines roughly 20,000 miles ago & last I checked them (earlier this season) there is still plenty of moly there doing it's job. Gordon, there's easily 3 or 4 spline lubes worth of product in the tube. It's the only one you'll probably buy. Damb those canadian taxes! lol
 
#15 ·
Or get it on the internet, shouldn't cost more than five bucks to ship and the honda moly should be less than 10 bucks
 
#16 ·
I was talking to John at bike night a couple of hours ago. He was a mechanic at the Honda shop for about 11 years, and said they too used Lubriplate assemly lube for the rear splines, contrary to what the 20 yo sales guy at the parts counter told me yesterday. No one seems to believe hi moly grease is necessary for this procedure.

Does anyone but members of this forum recommend Moly60?? I`m beginning to wonder.
 
#17 · (Edited)
No one seems to believe hi moly grease is necessary for this procedure.

Does anyone but members of this forum recommend Moly60?? I`m beginning to wonder.
X2 on that one. LOL The whole purpose of the high temp grease is to keep it from slinging out of the joint as easy as the parts heat up. Any good grade high temp grease will work,,, although I would use one with a good moisture resistants if you are from the South. After all, the heat and humidity will peel paint. You should see the grease oos out of my grease gun while it is laying on the self during summer months.
 
#18 ·
You guys sure know your lubes. I know nothing about the subject, except that I would only add, that for the material handling machinery I work with, if you want a clingy long term high pressure lube, grab the moly. It stays with whatever it touches forever.

For what it would cost to replace the rear end, and the number of times a tube will do the job. I see it as very cheap insurance.

But again ... it is only through a fear response that I will always use it.

Later,
 
#19 ·
#20 ·
#21 ·
But it does at least state the % content. This is the only other grease besides Honda Moly60 that I have seen with the % stated anywhere.

Now a little aside. I have been reading again the Clymer manual regarding the rear spline lube. I find that nowhere does it call for "high moly grease". In one place it calls for "molybdenum disulphide grease", and in another place for "high temperature grease, NLGI #2".

Have we been a little bit too anal about the "high moly" designation for this procedure?

Note that I`m not disputing that the Moly60 is probably the best readily available, and usually affordable lube for the purpose.

However, I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the low moly graphite lubes mentioned in this thread, the moly based NAPA "High-Perfomance Lubricant, for constant velocity joints" (which also contains lead compounds) and perhaps good quality synthetic wheel bearing grease, MAY BE acceptable second choices. I am not persuaded yet that Lubriplate Assembly Lube will stand up to the heat, movement, time and 10-12K mileage service intervals. JMHO
 
#22 ·
I really do not understand why some or saying they can't find the Honda moly60. Five seconds on a google search I found almost a whole page of listings...starting with this one:
http://www.bernardiparts.com/Honda-Moly-60-Paste__08734-0001.aspx


I think we are allowed to get "anal" about our bikes health. High content moly grease is the BEST stuff for the job... But a whole host of other stuff can be used. This is becoming a bit like an oil thread...lol

Every forum I have seen that deals with a shaft drive bike recommends Honda Moly 60... Or the other two lubes I linked at the beginning of this.

Do not care what the manual says, or Clymer. I am anal about my bike... especially when my life can depend on it. I'll pay the extra few bucks, or wait a few days to buy what I need online.

But no, I am not saying using a low moly lube is "wrong" or may endanger YOUR life. The only real issue with using something else is it's lifespan. I don't buy high end oil because I change my oil and filter every 3000 miles.

Lubing the splines is not as easy to do. There is no window to see how your spline lube is doing, so if you do not mind yanking off the read wheel to check your spline lube every 6-10000 miles.... Then use whatever you feel fine with.

That is of course an estimate. I have no figures on the lifespan of spline lubes.... This includes Moly 60 by the way.... But I have seen folks use bearing grease... and seen it virtually disappear after a few years riding.... While other bikes using the same lube seem to have some left.

Because there seems to be no rhyme or reason why certain lubes last less time in one bike over another , the obvious answer to me is to use something that is known to last the longest. So that is either being anal or just lazy I guess...... Lol

KM
 
#23 ·
No arguement with anything you say KM. :)

This is my first bike and I haven`t gotten to ride it much. I`m just trying to reconcile why there is such a wide disparity between what Kaw recommends, what owner/riders recommend, and what "professional" bike mechanics deem "good enough" to use. :confused:

$7.57 is a great price for the Moly 60, but UPS shipping to Canada is almost $30. No savings for me there. :(
 
#24 ·
#28 ·
That's odd because John Deere service manuals list that when John Deere Moly is not available that SAE Multipurpose EP Grease with 3 to 5 percent molybdenum disulfide may be used.
 
#30 ·
I think the key with the splines is knowing you have some kind of lube on there, period. On the newer bikes where some were not lubed at all (we don't really know what was done at the factory, in fact, maybe they used assembly lube!) when leaving the factory, the dry splines are what caused the damage if not caught in time. I would have been thrilled if mine had a coating of the cheapest wheel bearing grease instead of the brown rust-dust that poured on the driveway when I opened it up the first time.

I use the Moly 60 because I can get it, but if I had to pay three times as much as everyone else because of where I lived, I might choose an alternative, but who knows. I'm anal about my bike too, so I'd probably just pay it and use the moly. You get about three lubes out of a tube, and that is about 36,000 miles, if you keep that bike that long, so it is not so expensive as it sounds.

First thing I did with my 1500 was figure out how to lube the splines and fill it with moly 60. It had plenty of grease, but now I know it does, and it's moly. But probably any good grease would do, if you're willing to check them more often.
 
#35 ·
Just lubed mine a couple months ago if that. Back tire finally was beyond needing replaced this past week, and when I took it off, the small oring had broken. Lots of lube on the inner final drive assembly. Still some on the about shaft and couplings. Took an extra few days to finally get the Honda lube, but after seeing that I'm glad I did. Not too sure how much would have stuck on the assembly if it were a low moly content.
 
#36 ·
I have never actually seen the contents of a tube of Moly60.
Is there an NLGI number on the Moly60 tube?

What is the consistency (thickness) of the Honda moly60 compared to wheel bearing grease? (NLGI #2)
Are they comparable, or is the Moly60 "thinner", more like Lubriplate asembly lube?
 
#38 ·
You guys are making me thinking about grabbing a handful of my Hoppes Moly Paste from my gun cleaning kit and mix it in with my grease...
 
#39 ·
How much moly in the Hoppes paste?
 
#41 ·
I actually bought my Honda Moly60 from the exact eBay link posted above. $11.47 shipped to my door, and they're not too far away so the shipping was quite fast too.

As others have stated, I think it's a matter of "good enough" vs. paying a couple bucks extra to know you've got really good stuff. Someone else said it in another thread, but the grease is actually just a carrier, and the actual lubricating molecules work into the metal, so it's possible to have no actual grease left on and still have a very low-friction surface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molybdenum_disulfide#Use_as_lubricant has some more info.
MoS2 with particle sizes in the range of 1-100 µm is a common dry lubricant. Few alternatives exist that can confer the high lubricity and stability up to 350 °C in oxidizing environments. Sliding friction tests of MoS2 using a pin on disc tester at low loads (0.1-2 N) give friction coefficient values of <0.1.

Molybdenum disulfide is often a component of blends and composites where low friction is sought. A variety of oils and greases are used, because they retain their lubricity even in cases of almost complete oil loss, thus finding a use in critical applications such as aircraft engines. When added to plastics, MoS2 forms a composite with improved strength as well as reduced friction. Polymers that have been filled with MoS2 include nylon (with the trade name Nylatron), Teflon, and Vespel. Self-lubricating composite coatings for high-temperature applications have been developed consisting of molybdenum disulfide and titanium nitride by chemical vapor deposition.
If you're talking $5 for something that should be ok vs. $11 for the best (not counting crazy-expensive stuff), it's a no-brainer to me. If I were spending that every week, the price difference would be a bigger deal. If it were $500 vs. $1100, the price difference would be a bigger deal. But an extra $6 for enough to do multiple spline lubes? Absolutely.

I don't have much experience with different greases, but the Moly60 reminds me of vaseline. It's hard to explain, but it's pretty sticky (it's easy to get all over) while at the same time feeling very slick.

On a semi-related note, I also bought some Bike-Aid Dri-Slide, which is also moly, to lube my cables.
 
#43 ·
i purchased the honda molly 60 for less than $10 at the local honda dealership .:smiley_th
 
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