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Wareagle1970
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409 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Finally got a chance to run my tests that everyone here has so graciously provided me. I will start with the stator results

Steps taken
1) disconnected the yellow wires at the stator end. Had continuity among all combinations.
2) Tested ohms to ground for each of the yellow wire. All returned open/infinity/1 on my digital multimeter.
3) Ohm out all combinations of the 3 yellow wires. I labeled the wires A, B and C. All combinations received .9 (AB, AB, BC, BA, CA, CB)
4) Switched multimeter to 200 VAC. After making sure none of the wires were touching each other or the bike, I cranked it up and let it run for a minute. At idle I received 9.5 on all three stator wires with the positive lead from the multimeter going to the wire and the negative grounded at the battery. I tried to do the test of checking the voltage at each wire with the bike revved to 4-5k, but not sure I got the correct reading, as the number went down to about 5. Is this a necessary test to check the voltage at 4-5k RPM's?

That was all the testing scenarios I ran


R/R Testing
Tried to find the posting where someone (I think it was Ole Hoss) told me what the readings should be, but was curious on some of the measurements because the Clymer manual had different readings. For example, the measurement from terminal M (+) to B (-) in the manual says I should have open/infinity/1 on a digital multimeter, but the results I was given by someone else said I should have >10k ohms. Either way, here are the results of my tests. I am using the same lettering as in the Clymer manual on page 295

B-M/G/A1-3 (measured using 200 Ohms) all came back open/infinity/1 on a digital multimeter

M to * (measured using 3 different ohms settings, 200, 2000 and 20k) all 3 tests returned open/infinity/1 on a digital multimeter.

G to * (measured using 2000 ohms)
G-B 936
G-M 738
G-A1 435
G-A2 433
G-A3 434


I think that covers all the tests I was told to run. Being as obsessive compulsive as I am, I ran and reran each of the tests to be sure of the readings...

Please someone provide me with some feedback!!! I'll owe you lunch if I'm ever close to where you live!!!

Thank you in advance,
Steven
 

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Banned
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1,620 Posts
The stator AC voltage test was done wrong........... you need to check the AC voltage between pairs of yellow wires...... not yellow wire to battery. Do the stator voltage test again testing between all three pairs of yellow wires...............
 

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Wareagle1970
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409 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The stator AC voltage test was done wrong........... you need to check the AC voltage between pairs of yellow wires...... not yellow wire to battery. Do the stator voltage test again testing between all three pairs of yellow wires...............
Really? I guess I just assumed that checking voltage I needed to run the positive to the yellow wire and the negative to ground.... Bad, bad bad assumption on my part...

What do you think about the other results?

And thank you for your help!!!
 

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Premium Member
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117 Posts
From the tests you ran so far it looks like your stator and R/R are probably OK. A couple of comments.

Stator resistance test: Check the resistance of your meter leads by shorting them together and then subtracting that resistance from your stator measusrement. Your meter leads probably have 0.5 - 1 ohm resistance. I suggest you also plug the 3 bullet connectors back in and check the resistance from the R/R connector. This will confirm that all the connections and wiring are OK between the stator and the R/R.

Stator / Alternator voltage test: This test is not specified in the Factory Service Manual (FSM) nor in Clymers. It has been described on this forum that you should expect between 50 and 70 Volts AC. As dariv said this should be measured between each of the 3 yellow stator wires. The alternator output (both frequency and magnitude) will vary with engine speed. This test IS specified in my Concours 14 FSM (which has a similar charging system design) as 56 VAC or more at 4,000 rpm. If the output voltage is much higher then the R/R is damaged. If the voltage is much lower than the alternator is defective. The Concours FSM also notes that if the stator coils have normal resistance, but the output voltage is low then the rotor magnets have probably weakened and the rotor must be replaced.

R/R test: Note that the resistance values in the table between the terminals are dependent on the meter probe polarity. For example M(-) to G(+) = 10k ohm ~ infinity; G(-) to M(+) = 1k ohm ~ 5k ohm
 

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Wareagle1970
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409 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
From the R/R tests it appeared that it was definitely bad. Am I wrong? I will rerun the VAC test on my stator wires sometime today. In this test how important is it to rev to 4-5k rpm to test voltage there as well?
 

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Linkmeister Supreme
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7,960 Posts
From the R/R tests it appeared that it was definitely bad. Am I wrong? I will rerun the VAC test on my stator wires sometime today. In this test how important is it to rev to 4-5k rpm to test voltage there as well?
This stator does not charge the battery at idle speed of 1100 rpm, so you need to get engine speed up to 4-5K rpm to get an accurate indication of it`s charging capacity.
 

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Premium Member
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117 Posts
The manual says to use the meter on the 100 ohm range (200 ohm range is OK if that is what your meter has). Assuming that you had the meter (-) lead connected to the first terminal listed in your results here is how I interpret your results:

"B-M/G/A1-3 (measured using 200 Ohms) all came back open/infinity/1 on a digital multimeter" - OK

"M to * (measured using 3 different ohms settings, 200, 2000 and 20k) all 3 tests returned open/infinity/1 on a digital multimeter." - SPEC IS 10 kohm~infinity - OK

G to * (measured using 2000 ohms) - SHOULD BE ON 100 OHM SCALE

G-B 936 - SPEC IS 0.4 KOHM ~ 2 KOHM - OK

G-M 738 - SPEC IS 1 KOHM ~ 5 KOHM - (a little low, but you were on the 2000 ohm scale)

G-A1 435- SPEC IS 0.2 KOHM ~ 0.6 KOHM - OK

G-A2 433- SPEC IS 0.2 KOHM ~ 0.6 KOHM - OK

G-A3 434- SPEC IS 0.2 KOHM ~ 0.6 KOHM - OK

So I wouldn't conclude yet that your R/R is definitely bad.

You should then reverse the meter leads and repeat the measurements and compare to the table values.

Yes, it is important that you rev the engine to 4-5000 rpm for the alternator voltage measurement. Both the output voltage waveform and meter measurement may be unreliable at idle.
 

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Wareagle1970
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409 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
No, the first letter in my tests represents the positive lead.
 

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Wareagle1970
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409 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
This stator does not charge the battery at idle speed of 1100 rpm, so you need to get engine speed up to 4-5K rpm to get an accurate indication of it`s charging capacity.
Thanks Gordon. What do you think about my R/R test? Does that test seem like the R/R is bad?
 

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Linkmeister Supreme
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7,960 Posts
Thanks Gordon. What do you think about my R/R test? Does that test seem like the R/R is bad?
I`ll defer to sunpa and his analysis on this question.
Follow his directions and retest with the polarity of the leads reversed.
Post those results and see what you have.:)
 

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Wareagle1970
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409 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I`ll defer to sunpa and his analysis on this question.
Follow his directions and retest with the polarity of the leads reversed.
Post those results and see what you have.:)
I appreciate both you and sunpa's suggestions... Will rerun all tests with the positive and negative leads reversed and post.
 

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Premium Member
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117 Posts
No, the first letter in my tests represents the positive lead.
In that case it appears the ALL of your test results FAIL to meet spec - very strange. (I would expect that if there were an internal damaged component only some of the tests would fail.) Perhaps the meter polarity for resistance measurements is opposite of the meter used by the manual? Anyway, I suggest you continue and repeat the tests with the leads reversed using the 100 (or 200) ohm scale.

Good Luck!

It may help diagnosis if you write the results in the same table format used in the manual specification for easier comparison (although it is difficult ot post).
 

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Wareagle1970
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409 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Will rerun the tests and provide the results in some table form.
 

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Premium Member
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117 Posts
Will rerun the tests and provide the results in some table form.
I suggested a table format to help YOU compare your results with the specification. If you can post a table format easily, great - but don't struggle with it too much.
 

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Wareagle1970
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409 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
In that case it appears the ALL of your test results FAIL to meet spec - very strange. (I would expect that if there were an internal damaged component only some of the tests would fail.) Perhaps the meter polarity for resistance measurements is opposite of the meter used by the manual? Anyway, I suggest you continue and repeat the tests with the leads reversed using the 100 (or 200) ohm scale.

Good Luck!

It may help diagnosis if you write the results in the same table format used in the manual specification for easier comparison (although it is difficult ot post).
Sooo, all the R/R tests per page 295 of the Clymers Manual should be done at 200ohms? That is the lowest ohms setting I have on my multimeter.

Still need to repeat step 4 of my test results comparing VAC among the 3 stator wires instead of from the wires to ground.
 

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Premium Member
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Sooo, all the R/R tests per page 295 of the Clymers Manual should be done at 200ohms? That is the lowest ohms setting I have on my multimeter.
Yes, the Factory Service Manual procedure states "Be sure to set the hand tester to the 100 ohm range and zero the tester." The "hand tester" is just the Kawasaki multimeter. Some precision meters have an adjustment knob so that when you touch the leads together you can adjust the meter to read "zero" to compensate for the lead wire resistance. If your meter doesn't have a "zero adjust" just touch the leads together, note the reading and subract it from your measurement. Lead resistance is generally less than 1 ohm, so if you are measuring resistances in the thousands (k) of ohms you can ignore this. (But it is important when measuring stator winding resistance since those values are less than 1 ohm.)

It is important to use the same meter resistance "range" as was used in the specification to get results consistant with their "hand tester" although the difference between a 100 ohm and a 200 ohm range will not be significant. (The 2000 ohm range could result in a significant difference in measurement especially when measuring semiconductor devices such as diodes.)
 

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Wareagle1970
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409 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Yes, the Factory Service Manual procedure states "Be sure to set the hand tester to the 100 ohm range and zero the tester." The "hand tester" is just the Kawasaki multimeter. Some precision meters have an adjustment knob so that when you touch the leads together you can adjust the meter to read "zero" to compensate for the lead wire resistance. If your meter doesn't have a "zero adjust" just touch the leads together, note the reading and subract it from your measurement. Lead resistance is generally less than 1 ohm, so if you are measuring resistances in the thousands (k) of ohms you can ignore this. (But it is important when measuring stator winding resistance since those values are less than 1 ohm.)

It is important to use the same meter resistance "range" as was used in the specification to get results consistant with their "hand tester" although the difference between a 100 ohm and a 200 ohm range will not be significant. (The 2000 ohm range could result in a significant difference in measurement especially when measuring semiconductor devices such as diodes.)
Okay, was seriously considering just taking the bike to a shop and having them diagnose, but that would be giving up. Marines don't give up :hitanykey

lowest ohms setting on my digital multimeter is 200ohms. In my original tests I posted, should the stator tests 1 - 3 all be measured using the 200ohms setting?

Also, I am attaching a copy of a blank version of the table on page 295 of the Clymer manual. The word document has 2 tables on it with the only difference being the polarity switch. All R/R tests will be at 200ohms. Unfortunately, I do not have any way that I have see to zero out for the lead wires resistance, so I will have to subtract my the lead resistance from all my R/R test results. IIRC, the lead resistance was around .5
 

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Premium Member
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I know it is very confusing, between meter range settings, lead polarity and that table :doh: - but don't give up.

The one table already shows the expected results for both meter lead polarity.
The first ROW shows the values for B(-) to M(+), B(-) to G(+), ...
The first COLUMN shows B(+) to M(-), B(+) to G(-), ...

Perhaps my suggestion to make a table only made it more confusing, sorry, but it was easier for me when I did my R/R measurements.

The stator resistance measurements are actually specified on the meter Rx1 scale, but your measurements on the 200 ohm scale look good.

I have never done an attachment to a post, but you might try using the "paperclip" icon above the message window?

Good Luck!
 
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