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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
After KM's rant, I removed this post.----------
 

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Columbus, Ohio
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You've gotta wonder how safe the operator was if his wheel fell off.

Tough break, though.
 

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So ...my take is that I should
1. Inspect vehicle prior to operation and kick the tires
2. Prior to launch put all my gear on
3. Prior to launch engage in "right mindedness" in effort to stay focused.
 

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Super Moderator
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Im not sure what the point of posting this was , other than to show that even if you wear a helmet you can still get hurt or die?

That and make sure your wheels are bolted on right?


Sorry, but I have a disdain for any posts reporting serious motorcycle accidents unless the poster personally knows the victims or if they are members of this forum.

Some will say , "well we can learn by their mistakes" ...which might be logical if we really knew what their mistakes were.
If you do not know already to check your bike over before heading out, shame on you....it should not take someones death to point this out to you by now.

Please leave the reporting of motorcycle related accidents to the local papers and not this forum. Am sure we all get enough "stories" from folks we hardly know every time we go somewhere holding our helmet.


That said..........

The fact that both the riders were 63 might also be a factor in this case BTW...it is has been shown that older people are more suseptable to brain trauma than younger folks are. Even with a helmet, those in their 60's can suffer more tissue damage and head trauma for a given impact. We are not as resiliant as we once were...not to mention many older folks are, for a lack of better word...more "brittle" lack of calcium in old age makes our bones easier to break. A broken rib can pierce vital organs...
So take it easy out there.
KM
 

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Removed IAW KM
I thought as adults we had the option to choose what we read or don't read. That option shouldn't be taken away because someone doesn't like the content of a post. This is sophmoric and frankly disappointing. I'm not trying to start anything, just saying that as adults we should be able to choose for ourselves.

If someone wouldn't mind reposting this in the belly where no one can complain about it, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to read it or at least have the option to. I believe Waggy was only trying to help.

Thanks for any help here and no, I won't continue after this even if there is no repost. I just wanted to say my peice.
 

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I thought it was a timely reminder of the need to check the ride over before heading out. That's certainly something I need to do a better job of. It's not like there were pictures of mangled, bloody corpses.
 

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It was not my intention for waggy to remove the post. My point was only that , in my opinion, as a matter of good taste, we should refrain from posting motorcycle related accidents unless they were ours or someone we know personally.

Removing the post (and not the entire thread) will only raise curiosity about "what it was all about" and confuse those just tuning in.

My suggestion was for future thoughts of starting a thread and was not meant as suggestion to remove this one...(if you already have fallen in the pool, you might as well swim around a bit, as you are already wet...;))

So feel free to re-post the info you originaly did in your first post waggy, but please consider the usefullness of such posts in the future.


KM
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I refuse to engage in mud slinging. I do not shout in public or at home.
 

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I'm glad you shared personally. My take is, if it moved you, it might move someone else and save them from the same mistake. Granted, they were on a Harley trike but the principle is there. I could tell you were trying to help and I don't really mind stories like this one. Yes, they're tragic but they are also powerful reminders. No worries Waggy...
 

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Columbus, Ohio
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Not to beat a dead horse, but the kind of reports that bother me are those like you find on You Tube...."Look at this Dumb Assed Biker Get Killed!" and things like that.
 

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^ Agreed, they're just idiotic. The worst part is, apart from the obvious, that you know the poster has never ridden a bike before...
 

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I appreciate the post of other motorcycle accidents. As a new rider maybe I can take something from every accident.
 

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I don't mind what anyone posts as long as it is in good taste. We should all be moved when a fellow rider is killed. But please don't post links to gory pictures or videos of motorcycle accidents. We all know where to find those if we want to. Personally I don't need to see any more. Riding is inherently dangerous, even the best of riders can get killed at any time, no matter how well prepared they are. As for the wheel coming off, I don't know whether that was caused by a lack of maintenance on the part of the rider, or the failure of a defective part. On my Vulcan 750, both my axle bolts have cotter pins in them, and I figure if they are still there, then everything is ok. Jerry.
 

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I appreciate the post of other motorcycle accidents. As a new rider maybe I can take something from every accident.
Let me tell you that after 30+ years...wait, 40 years now, of riding, I can say with out a doubt that I have never learned anything usefull at all from either reading about or hearing about a fatal or horrific motorcycle accident. Most of the "horrific" ones the rider was so tramatized they could not even remember any part of the accident itself, and of course those with fatalities are just as useless simply because you can not interview a corpse.

So I am sorry to say the only thing you can take away from an accident like the one posted here, or any other fatal accident is :

The fact that motorcycles are very dangerous forms of transportation and that if you are not really carefull and attentive to what you are doing you can end up seriously injured or dead.

And if you did not already know this perhaps you should go back and rethink the whole thing before you get on your bike again.

While it is true one can learn from their mistakes...or even others...it is of no use reading about a bike accident unless you can interview the person who was in controll of the bike to find out what they did or what they didn't do.
Just about all reports of injury or death only give the suspected scenerio of what basicly happened, with no insight into what the rider was doing, thinking or having to deal with.
If a rider wipes out in turn and gets killed, we really do not know if he hit a spot of oil or gravel, if his tire lost air suddenly, if he was drunk and just FKD up or if it was just rider error for going into the turn too fast or if something hit him. The only way to know for sure is to talk to the rider..... and if he does not remember the accident or is dead you can not draw any conclusions on what really happened...thus hearing about it is pointless.

As a new rider I can appreciate one wishing to learn all the obstacules and dangers that exsist on the road, but there are hunderds of different avenues to do this other than trying to pick apart an accident that offers so little information to start with.

Back when I was into motorcross, I had a new racer , who was having problems crashing , tell me that he had been watching the other riders out there that are crashing or wiping out to try and figure out what he was doing wrong. My words to him were fairly simple:

"If you are falling down alot you should not be studying the other riders that are falling down to figure out what they are doing wrong, you should be watching and talking to the riders that are not falling to figure out what they are doing right.

This whole heading here "Motorcycle Safety" has many posts with usefull information on gear, links to sites that deal with safety, talk of specific books,and videos one can study to be a better and safer rider. If you are new to riding you should be active in learning all this, because your life depends on it.

You really are not going to learn anything new from hearing about some accident...as anyone here will tell you that has had a mishap or two , that most of them could have been avoided had they applied knowledge they already knew.

Look at it this way. Many members here are smokers. They all know the dangers of this activity, and I am sure have loved ones or family that can't help but to remind them of these dangers. But some enjoy smoking enough that they do it anyway and have no plans to stop.
Now imagine they found a smokers forum, not one of those that helps you quit or gives you information on treatments to stop....but one for those that like to smoke, that like to share their intrest with others, a forum that is basicly pro-smoking , with members that like to smoke, and talk about smoking related things.

Now if someone were to post a story on this forum about someone they did not even know that died of lung cancer...wouldn't you think that would be a bit out of place? Wouldn't that sound more like something you would see in an Anti-Smoking site?

Well, this is , from what I gathered, a " Pro - Motorcycle" site. Wouldn't posts on folks being killed on motorcyles seem to be better suited to a "Anti-Motorcycle" site?

I can understand if one is posting about a freind or family member that is injured or killed, because as group we should be supportive and understand the emotional connection. I'm sure on the smokers site a post about ones dad passing away due to lung cancer would be seen as acceptable, and many would offer condolenced and prayers for those concerned.

If one really want to read about motorcycle deaths , and serious accidents, they can easily find this stuff online.

I remember one post on this subject (and I mean no offence to whoever said this, just using it as an example) that basicly said that they found posts on fatal accidents good because they served them as "a wake up call" to be more carefull themselves.

All I can say to this is if you really need to be reminded that bikes are dangerous you should get a grease pencil and write yourself a note on your gas tank..or better yet make a little sign you can tape up above your gas cap that says something simple like "TRY NOT TO DIE TODAY" , that way every time you get on the bike and reach to turn the key you can be reminded of your own mortality and that motorcycles are in fact dangerous vehicles .....thus putting the responsibliity of your own safety back in your hands... as opposed to being dependent on having some poor soul die on their bike so you can be reminded that you can too.

Another popular bit of crack pipe logic I have seen here a few time is the phrase " Well, if you do not like it , you do not have to read it"
Which to me is an idiotic statement that can be used to rationalize saying anything offensive or outright stupid. Hey, if you don't like reading about eating babies you should have just not opened the thread.

Which may have actualy worked here had the thread been titled properly......

So those of you that smoke, or ride motorcycles, you should know the dangers already, and those of you just begining with either of those activities... Take the time to do the research yourself and don't wait to learn stuff you need to know NOW by sitting there and having it fed to you...

Rant mode off........

KM
 

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Premium Member
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[ "If you are falling down alot you should not be studying the other riders that are falling down to figure out what they are doing wrong, you should be watching and talking to the riders that are not falling to figure out what they are doing right.

I have to agree with this wholeheartedly....I learned from a Master Marksman how to shoot...he began by showing me exactly what a perfect site picture should be and immediately corrected any derivation from that.
I believe we must surround ourselves with excellence in riding...ie learning in literature and great examples around us. This forum has both levels of skill....trick is to make sure we don't lower our level to that of an unsuccessful rider.....The best way to learn is from the best. Why would we want otherwise?
 

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Adventuregeek
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162 Posts
You don't want to read it, close it. That's not crack-pipe logic. It takes far more time to write multiple long posts than it would to simply... click... CLOSE. Trust me on this: you are never going to change forum behavior. Give it up. It's been tried elsewhere with no success.

Not to mention, some of us learn from these, even if others don't. Yes, we should all know everything by now, this kind of post should be redundant, etc. Clearly, we don't all know everything - too many people reply that these made them think a bit. Should they be thinking already? Yes, but mocking and insulting them is not going to make anyone a safer rider. If you already know it all, good for you. Bask in your superior knowledge and allow us benighted ones to trawl for information.

If ONE person takes a little extra thought for their ride, this was a good post. If it annoyed fifty readers, so what? Annoyance never killed anyone.
 
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Let me tell you that after 30+ years...wait, 40 years now, of riding, I can say with out a doubt that I have never learned anything usefull at all from either reading about or hearing about a fatal or horrific motorcycle accident. Most of the "horrific" ones the rider was so tramatized they could not even remember any part of the accident itself, and of course those with fatalities are just as useless simply because you can not interview a corpse.

So I am sorry to say the only thing you can take away from an accident like the one posted here, or any other fatal accident is :

The fact that motorcycles are very dangerous forms of transportation and that if you are not really carefull and attentive to what you are doing you can end up seriously injured or dead.

And if you did not already know this perhaps you should go back and rethink the whole thing before you get on your bike again.

While it is true one can learn from their mistakes...or even others...it is of no use reading about a bike accident unless you can interview the person who was in controll of the bike to find out what they did or what they didn't do.
Just about all reports of injury or death only give the suspected scenerio of what basicly happened, with no insight into what the rider was doing, thinking or having to deal with.
If a rider wipes out in turn and gets killed, we really do not know if he hit a spot of oil or gravel, if his tire lost air suddenly, if he was drunk and just FKD up or if it was just rider error for going into the turn too fast or if something hit him. The only way to know for sure is to talk to the rider..... and if he does not remember the accident or is dead you can not draw any conclusions on what really happened...thus hearing about it is pointless.

As a new rider I can appreciate one wishing to learn all the obstacules and dangers that exsist on the road, but there are hunderds of different avenues to do this other than trying to pick apart an accident that offers so little information to start with.

Back when I was into motorcross, I had a new racer , who was having problems crashing , tell me that he had been watching the other riders out there that are crashing or wiping out to try and figure out what he was doing wrong. My words to him were fairly simple:

"If you are falling down alot you should not be studying the other riders that are falling down to figure out what they are doing wrong, you should be watching and talking to the riders that are not falling to figure out what they are doing right.

This whole heading here "Motorcycle Safety" has many posts with usefull information on gear, links to sites that deal with safety, talk of specific books,and videos one can study to be a better and safer rider. If you are new to riding you should be active in learning all this, because your life depends on it.

You really are not going to learn anything new from hearing about some accident...as anyone here will tell you that has had a mishap or two , that most of them could have been avoided had they applied knowledge they already knew.

Look at it this way. Many members here are smokers. They all know the dangers of this activity, and I am sure have loved ones or family that can't help but to remind them of these dangers. But some enjoy smoking enough that they do it anyway and have no plans to stop.
Now imagine they found a smokers forum, not one of those that helps you quit or gives you information on treatments to stop....but one for those that like to smoke, that like to share their intrest with others, a forum that is basicly pro-smoking , with members that like to smoke, and talk about smoking related things.

Now if someone were to post a story on this forum about someone they did not even know that died of lung cancer...wouldn't you think that would be a bit out of place? Wouldn't that sound more like something you would see in an Anti-Smoking site?

Well, this is , from what I gathered, a " Pro - Motorcycle" site. Wouldn't posts on folks being killed on motorcyles seem to be better suited to a "Anti-Motorcycle" site?

I can understand if one is posting about a freind or family member that is injured or killed, because as group we should be supportive and understand the emotional connection. I'm sure on the smokers site a post about ones dad passing away due to lung cancer would be seen as acceptable, and many would offer condolenced and prayers for those concerned.

If one really want to read about motorcycle deaths , and serious accidents, they can easily find this stuff online.

I remember one post on this subject (and I mean no offence to whoever said this, just using it as an example) that basicly said that they found posts on fatal accidents good because they served them as "a wake up call" to be more carefull themselves.

All I can say to this is if you really need to be reminded that bikes are dangerous you should get a grease pencil and write yourself a note on your gas tank..or better yet make a little sign you can tape up above your gas cap that says something simple like "TRY NOT TO DIE TODAY" , that way every time you get on the bike and reach to turn the key you can be reminded of your own mortality and that motorcycles are in fact dangerous vehicles .....thus putting the responsibliity of your own safety back in your hands... as opposed to being dependent on having some poor soul die on their bike so you can be reminded that you can too.

Another popular bit of crack pipe logic I have seen here a few time is the phrase " Well, if you do not like it , you do not have to read it"
Which to me is an idiotic statement that can be used to rationalize saying anything offensive or outright stupid. Hey, if you don't like reading about eating babies you should have just not opened the thread.

Which may have actualy worked here had the thread been titled properly......

So those of you that smoke, or ride motorcycles, you should know the dangers already, and those of you just begining with either of those activities... Take the time to do the research yourself and don't wait to learn stuff you need to know NOW by sitting there and having it fed to you...

Rant mode off........

KM
Ever turn that impressive analytical savvy inward? Just sayin' you kinda got the crazy cranked a little high today...
 
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