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Also See Goat's Belly and Reduce or Eliminate Popping / Backfiring

You do not need to rejet for any replacement pipes. This is a misconception of unknown origin...lol In theory...de-goating would decrease power...I do not have first hand knowledge of this...but a few folks have reported a little less pep at low speeds.

OK you cruzer lovers, you made me do it! Just ordered a pair from the Phat website one of you recommended. They were considerably cheaper than Dennis Kirk and shipping might even be free.

Oh yeah, we really twisted your arm, didn't we.... <g> The install is easy.. They come with detailed instructions, and everything you need, except new crush gaskets.. Most here swear by Harley gaskets, I just got some from the Kaw dealer down the road, no problems yet.. You're gonna love 'em.. If you really want to make your neighbors love ya, unpack he baffles...= )

This is from the post that is in the VN750 -> Files -> Engine, Air Intake and Exhaust folder. I do not know if we can still get them from Judge, but there are Harley shops everywhere. -- Text extracted from the folder. If you add aftermarket pipes you need to replace your header ( crush ) gaskets The Harley crush gasket that fits our bike is HD #17048-98 for the gaskets from Judge here is the info JUDGE (Robert Oglesby, VROC # 2594). $6.00 for a pair, and they worked great. Many on the VROC board claim that his are the best. The JUDGE ones are good also .Send him an email at [email protected] and he will send you his address. Then send him $6 with a SASE and he will sent the gaskets.

Here's what I have on JUDGE: JUDGE (Robert Oglesby, VROC # 2594). $6.00 for a pair , and they worked great. Many on the VROC board claim that his are the best. Send him an email at [email protected] and he will send you his address. Then send him $6 with a SASE and he will sent the gaskets.

Gaskets - can just go to your local Harley shop and buy them there.. part: HD #17048-98

My left exhaust pipe got loose after my last ride, and I determined that the studs were bad. I removed the pipe and found one of the studs corroded so the threads were not holding. With liberal amounts of PB Blaster, I was able to twist the old studs out with vise grips. Got replacement studs at Ace Hardware and used anti-seize on both ends. (I like the pretty acorn nuts, so I opted to replace the studs instead of using regular stainless bolts.) Not wanting to wait for Judge, I swallowed my pride and made a trip to the local HD dealer. Yes, they had the gasket in stock ($5 for one). They had 2 different ones -- one for stock pipes and one for aftermarket pipes. We want the one for aftermarket pipes. It's just a simple, mesh-like ring. After seeing it and using it, I would say that it is at least as good if not better than Judge's. And I used a little trick I picked up here of putting a small dab of grease on the gasket to hold it in place while reinstalling the pipe. So now I have Judge's on the right and HD on the left. Both are very good.
the Kaw part # for a complete gasket set is 11028-1098 Kaw calls it gasket set A. It can be purchased through cycleparts.com for about $105, or you could get it from a dealer for about $115. Any or all of the gaskets can be purchased separately. If you need a manual for the specs & proceedures, I would reccomend either the Clymer manual or the Kaw manual (available also as a download). The Haynes manual has quite a few errors and jumps around between the 750 & the 800. Some of the members here may be able to get you the Kaw manual on a CD if you need it. Enjoy your project

I guess that technically the part number 17048-98 is a "Screamin' Eagle" Performance Exhaust Gasket Kit. I don't know if "Screamin' Eagle" is part of HD or not, but the part number is correct for the above mentioned kit. As Dianna says, these gaskets I bought actually crush as the bolts are tightened, and they were only 85 cents each. And the part number for the crush gaskets is 65835-86T. Here's a couple of looks at the gaskets I bought. http://www.geocities.com/robertrbb/gasket.jpg http://www.geocities.com/robertrbb/gasket2.jpg Bob Burns
The baffles in the Vance & Hines Cruzers remove with after you remove one screw. They are great pipes and have an excellent note but are a bit loud for my preferences. I really like how they are set up, as they don't blue like the Cobras do. I just removed a baffle this weekend to have a look at it to see if the packing had blown out, and what I would need to repack it. So they do come out, but it takes a bit of work to get them loosened up to come out. I think it took about 15 minutes to remove it, and that was a first attempt for me
Finally got my cruzers installed today and when I fired the 750 up, my wife and I looked at each other in amazement and just started laughing. (Don't think I could have done the install w/out her help several times.) I never dreamed they'd sound like that. Course, that's inside the garage w/the door closed! LOL. Man, some of the tolerances are pretty close; hope I can get my F&S "engine guard" back on. Wish I'd found the V&H installation instructions b4 I took the old pipes off according to Clymer manual. The V&H instructions were better. I used the HD crush gaskets and removed the existing metal gasket; hope that was the right thing to do. Too late/dark to ride, but I can hardly wait. Everyone of you who told me I'd love 'em was right on and I bought the pipes because I trusted your input! Ain't this forum the greatest! Ya'll have a great wk now! bob in orygun Bob "Tiger" Hawley
Bob: You are so right. CruZers are sweet sounding. If you have not put on coasters yet you may consider that for your next project. When you back off the gas you will probably get a popping noise from the EPA junk. Its burning excess gas fumes in the exhaust and pipes from air sucked thru the reed valves. Its next on my list of projects. Enjoy! Owen "BigO" Lloyd
For all who are interested in the pipes:

1. The V&H CruZers are one on each side, same as stock.

2. You do not need to rejet by changing pipes - only if you change the intake (e.g. ear shave). But you will want to back the air mix screws out a turn or 2 to reduce the "popping" on deceleration.

3. They come with full-length heat shields, so you will never see any bluing on them (unlike the Cobras, which are well-known for turning blue). Don't know about the Jardines.

4. You should probably get new crush gaskets for the header (where the pipes attach to the cylinder). Get 'em from JUDGE on the VROC board or from your local Harley shop (part #17048-98)

5. One good place we have found to buy the CruZers is Phat Performance Parts: http://tinyurl.com/2m8p3 - $329.95 with free shipping. (NOTE: The picture shown at this link is NOT the VN750, since both pipes exit on the right in the pic - see point #1.) Hope this helps! If you have any other questions, ask Raz or Bulldog! <g> Jim "Pick" Foster

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
For the V&H, there is a sound byte in the VN750 yahoo group files section under Engine, Air intake and exhaust.

Popping on deceleration Phil, I spoke with Ron last night. He seems to have whipped my "popping" on deceleration problem. He spoke with V&H and found out what jetting the Cruzers are engineered for. Then he checked mine. Thye were under jetted, even under the specs listed in the manual! He opened the jetting to the specs provided by V&H, then opened the air mixture screws to 2 1/2 turns (out) and that solved the popping. He is doing some more checks and minor servicing today. I should pick her up tonight or tomorrow at the latest. I'll be more specific relative to the jetting changes once I have met with Ron.

This is, hopefully, the final chapter on my "popping" on deceleration problem I put my 750 in the hands of someone who knows what he is doing, and I am happy to report that the loud, distracting popping that I experienced after the Vance & Hines Cruzers were installed is now reduced to a low rumble with only an occasional pop when gearing down. It was difficult to understand what the mechanic did over the telephone, but here's the scoop for any one who may have similar problems.

He called Vance & Hines, and they said that the Cruzers are engineered to work with with main jets of 135. The factory main jetting is 132, He drilled the main jets to 135, opened the fuel mixture screws to approximately 2-3/4 turns out ( a slight variance between cylinders), and took her for a test ride. The popping was practically all gone. The spark plugs that had been white w/o any tan now show a bit of tan color. I drove the bike home, approximately 45 miles, and she purred like a kitten ( a very nasty kitten, I might add) with negligible popping. I also noticed that the temp gauge was somewhat cooler than before. He has suggested trying a slightly "cooler" spark plug for effect and recommends either the NGK DP8EA-9 or the Champion RA 6 HC (gapped at .035). He feels this may be a better plug for my 750. He said to try it, and if the engine misses or doesn't perform well go back to the stock plugs. In the future, I may go to the ear shave and alter the main jetting further to the recommended settings for the ear shave, but for now I feel much better about things. I hope that this is helpful to others who may have the same or similar problems. Ride safe, Neal/Ratty
I have H-D dyna mufflers that you are talking about. They aren't just slip ons. You have to make your own mounts and the right side needs some flexible tubing. It's an easy mod and the sound is worth it. I have pictures in my signature line below.

I added a text file under "files" on how I installed my H-D dyna mufflers. I hope it helps those that want to do it this mod.
The easiest and least expensive way to get a little more rumble out of your stock pipes is to drill or punch a hole in your mufflers baffle. It is just a perforated disc, if ya lie on the ground and aim a flashlight in there you'll see what I mean. I drilled a 3/8" hole in each of my discs and was liked the sound so I left well enough alone. I also turned out my fuel/air mixyure screws 2 1/8 turns and my scoot runs great and the plugs have that nice tan color. -Bruce Detroit

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For those of us looking to put V&H CruZers on, MAW has them at $310. That beats the previous best deal at www.phatperformanceparts.com ($330). Anyone get a better deal?

MAW charges a 4% handling & insurance charge ($12.50 on this) plus the UPS shipping so Phat's gotta be the better deal.

the HD muffler install...couldn't get to the file for some reason. Anyway, here is the file pasted: NOTE: This is just a description of how I installed MY mufflers. It should give an idea of how to do it yourself. This is only based on my skill level and my resources. You will see the problems I had and I hope you can learn from them. When I say left or right it is from the view point of as if you were sitting on the bike looking forward. The first question is "where do you get H-D dyna mufflers from"? A lot of Harley guys change their mufflers out before the bike even hits the steets. So your chance of getting a new pair at a low price is very good. You can call your local shop and see if they have any laying around that they want to get rid of. I got my mufflers off of ebay. This is another way they get rid of there mufflers. You can easily get a pair for less then $30 off of ebay. Once you get your mufflers it's time to go shopping.

Here was my list: THESE CAN BE BOUGHT AT ANY PARTS STORE 1- 1 3/4" U-clamp 1- 1 3/4" flexible exhaust kit (the kit should come with another U- clamp included. If not you will need to buy another U-clamp) Exhaust Tape THESE CAN BE BOUGHT AT HOME DEPOT 4- 5/16" carriage bolts 4- 5/16" lock nuts Stock metal to make your muffler mount brackets (what you use is up to your skill level and resorces) Now let's begin the mod! First remove the stock mufflers and premuffler (goats belly) Save two of the stock muffler clamps for later. Take one of the dyna mufflers and slip it over the left header pipe. Use a jack with a pad or a box or whatever you can find and put it under the muffler to get it level. Install the heat shield and see how it looks and adjust the muffler to the desired level. Now measure the distance from the stock exhaust mount on the bike to the slot mount of the muffler. Use your imagination and make a muffler mount now. I used diamond plate I had laying around my garage.

If you are planning on relocating your R/R you can make your mount extent up beyond the the bike mount and mount your R/R to the same bracket later. Using your measurement, drill three holes in your mount bracket. One for the upper mount to the bike and two for the muffler mount. Use two of the carriage bolts and lock nuts and mount your bracket to the muffler then use the stock bolt and nut and mount the muffler to the bike. Install the heat shield now and see how it looks. If you need to adjust the level you can alway elongate the bracket holes to get the right level. Now remove the muffler and bracket and make a simular bracket for the other side.

Let's install the left muffler now. Get the exhaust tape and a hair dryer. Use the instructions and wrap the left header pipe a couple time. Now mount the left muffler and use a U-clamp to attach the muffler to the header pipe. Make sure you face the threads of the U- clamp in the direction so it won't interfere with the mounting of heat shield once it's put on. Mount the heat shield. (you will not be able to use the rear heat shield mount) The left side is now done. Let's move to the right side. Use the mounting bracket you already made for this side and mount the muffler to the bike using the other two carriage bolts and lock nuts at the muffler and the stock bolt and nut to the bike.

Check and compare the two mufflers now to see that they are at the same level and match as far as looking the same. Make any adjustments now to the right mount. Here is the tricky part. You will see there is a 6-8 inch gap between the muffler and the header pipe and the muffler won't be on a straight line from the header. This is why you need the flexible exhaust tubing. To fill the gap and make the slight bend. Cut the flexible tubing to the right length. The problem I had now was that the flexible tubing and the muffler inlet are the same size. To get the tubing over the muffler inlet I cut one slit on the end of the tubing about an inch length wise down the tube to expand the "mouth" of the tubing to fit over the muffler inlet. This problem was not expected so this was my way of fixing something I hadn't planned. You may want to try a different size tubing.

Using the muffler tape the same way you did on the left side, wrap it a couple times on the end of the header pipe and the muffler inlet (outside). Install the tube over the header. Use a U-clamp and mount the tubing to the muffler. If you put a slit in the tubing end like I did, make sure the slit is on the outside (to the rear) of the clamp to prevent leaks. Since the header pipe sits so close to the frame it is impossible to fit a U-clamp in that area and get the heat shield on. The stock clamps are too big to get a tight fit on the header pipe so you will need to use two of them. One as a shim and one as a clamp. Cut the ends off one of the clamps to make a shim the shape of a "C". Now put the shim over the flex tube at the header pipe and the clamp over it. Tighten the clamp to get a tight fit. Put the heat shield on and you should be done with the mod. and can see how it looks. You aren't done completely yet though.

Take the heat shields off and start the bike up. Let it run for about ten minutes. While it is running check for any leaks. You may have to just tighten your clamps up to stop them. The heat from the bike will also heat up the exhaust tape to harden it. That will be what you smell. Once you have all the leaks sealed, put the heat shields back on and enjoy! You will find it to be a good deep rumble sound. After each of the first few rides keep checking all the clamps and bolts. They will loosing on you and you want to keep them tight. Also keep checking for leaks at this time. I hope this has helped out. If you have any more questions feel free to ask me or any of the others that have done this mod. Warren D.

Got the Jardine tapers on the 2001 I bought this spring. They are crossovers (both "muffler" parts on right side). I like the sound better than the Cobras on the vn750 I left in TN ... seems a little deeper and less .... um, dunno .... blatty? I didn't rejet for the Cobras, but don't know if this bike has been rejetted for the Jardines. The idle mix screws (yeah, I know, but that's what we call them on here <g>) were uncovered, but not turned out much. I put them at 2 3/4 and she seems to run just fine. I wouldn't hesitate to buy them ... I wouldn't get the Cobras again. I might get the V&H .... but need to hear if they are too loud first. OH ... and I can still use the centerstand ... can with all aftermarket pipes AFIK grambo

Cobraswill blue up fast (Even with a no-blue treatment) and the chrome tends to be a bit less quality. Remember, with some things.. you get what you pay for. Cobras are definitely loud, you just need to treat them to delay the bluing and then get the heat shields to cover it up when it does happen.

The Cobras that I have had blued really bad, and IMO didn't sound as good as the CruZers... Can't say for the Jardines... As for the rejet... NO, no, no, no, and no... Only time this is needed is when the intake is modified.. I had also heard of the the low-end loss of power, but didn't notice any..

Poor mans exhaust: i like the sound of my degoated stock mufflers on my 750, they have a 3/4 hole drilled straight through the baffle on the muffler itself. you can see straight through the hole. My friends compliment me on the sweet deep sound they have that way. you may want to put your stock mufflers back on in this way if you have them unless you tried that already. beavis

I test rode my bike today and I really like the degoated stock pipes. The sound is deeper then the dynas and not as loud as the punched out dynas. At cruising speed it has a nice low hum. Not bad for less then $20. Maverick

Only reason (to degoat other than relieving the heat on the R/R) would be to change the sound of your exhaust... If you like the quieter pipes, leave it stock. Running stock with the goat's belly is as quiet as you can get them I think. Running stock pipes but degoated gives you a louder.. much louder but tinny sort of rat-tat tat sound. Or you can run either of the above (stock goated or degaoted with the Dynas (HD Mufflers) I am runing stock degoated and just got the 27"classic fishtail mufflers. The bike seems to purr a nice low rumble now but it's not as loud as the degoated stock and definitely a lot quieter than Cobras or V&H Cruzers Any other type of full exhaust system you might buy for your bike will eliminate the goats belly for you. Dianna
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