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Sometimes you gotta throw the stats out the windows. If it feels right, it probably is. So just go with it.
 
This thread has the sound of an excellent chapter of Nicomachean Ethics (pun intended);). All bikes are not created equal. Some bikes run so silent, they are too stealthy for the riders good; like the GW and BMW. These, I think would be well served with new after market exhaust configs.

I think the VN750 is the perfect moderation right from the factory. The bike is loud enough to have ‘presence’, and quiet enough not to ruffle community/neighbor and cager feathers. I do know; more than once, and because my bike is not overly loud, I have heard and become aware of a cager next to me by his tires on the road. Ahhh, the perfect middle ground (for me):smiley_th.
 
Rather than use loud pipes to protect me from being pushed off the road, I just stay in the middle of my lane and travel on the right hand lane in highways.

I avoid fast moving pockets of tightly packed cars and always yield to... anything.

You're fragile on a bike, and a few extra minutes is not worth my life
 
I am mostly quit on the boards. I would rather read and learn then anything else. KM is right, loud anything doesn't help you all that much. I drove an Ambulance for 20 years. That is about as loud as it gets in those 20 years the speakers for the sirens moved from the top of the ambulance to the grill of the ambulance. Studys showed that the sound traveled over the car when it was on top and more into the car when mounted in the grill... So your pipes are pointed behind so the sound travels behind you not in front of you at all. Also with driving an Ambulance one thing I noticed is that with loud sounds people look around to see where it is comming from and most never look where the sound really is. In the city the sound bounces off of buildings, other cars and vans you name it. So they might hear you and I know their head will turn looking for where the sound is comming from but just like driving anything else where ever they look they have a habit of driving toward.
 
Also with driving an Ambulance one thing I noticed is that with loud sounds people look around to see where it is comming from and most never look where the sound really is.
If people are looking then the siren has done its job by making people aware that an emergency vehicle is present.
 
Paradigm, the center of the lane has the most oil on it (even though atmospheric crankcase ventilation is gone). Riding in the left 1/3 puts you in BOTH the drivers side and rear view mirrors for cars in front of you, as well as closer to the next lane over. Makes you more visible to the next lane over, also gives you more escape options should you need to go evasive. Same case on a two lane road. On a two-laner, the closer you are to the center the more visible you will be to entering traffic, and the more visibility you will have over the entire road. Think about a car coming out of a driveway with a huge tree at the end of it. That tree will most likely obstruct vision from the side of the road first... not where you want to be.

@KM I actually tend to get my thumb ready on the horn button before I pass a vehicle on the highway. I'm all about proactive safety. Doesn't always happen in the city if I'm using the clutch.

As for the pipes...

Yes, loud pipes have probably saved a few lives, but not in the context that is so commonly presented. Horns do work just as well, are not on all the time, and indicate emergency situations. Horns don't piss people off when properly used, and horns don't get the signs put up in some local neighborhoods here banning bikes with straight pipes.

If the point of loud pipes is safety, let me propose something. How about we increase the decibel limit of a bike for every piece of safety gear a rider has. If you wear a helmet, riding jacket, good gloves, good riding pants, good boots, reflective/bright overgarment such as a vest, or have added running lights or other eye catching devices, you get to stick the straights on. Check your tire pressure, tire condition, light functionality, and also perform a quick overall visual inspection at every startup, heck you could slap on the shorties. After all, at that point you actually do care about your safety (and probably wouldn't want to cheat your ears either).

Usually the louder bikes I notice share four things in common. Tee shirt, jeans, boots, and sunglasses. Definitely safety measures, not trying to impress onlookers...
 
Those that still buy in to the idea that loud pipes consistently save lives have obviously not seen the "Harley" episode of South Park.....:)...(ha, ha, ha!)...:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word

This was easily one of the funniest things I've ever seen on tv.


A much better (and usually much cheaper--hey, new pipes are pricey!) way to stay safer that doesn't jeopardize motorcycle rights....read this:

http://m.motorcyclecruiser.com/streetsurvival/driver_visibility/index.html
 
So here's my 2 cents, and this is PURELY opinion : I don't like loud pipes. I find them very annoying, and at times have been so startled that they almost caused ME to suddenly jerk my steering or hit the brakes (in cage and on bike) causing me to wreck. So when it comes to 'saving lives', that may apply to the rider with the loud pipes, but not necessarily to those they scare the %#* out of.

Honestly, I think that of all the people who have loud pipes, MAYBE 1% of them (if that) got them for the "lifesaving" aspect of them, and the other 99% got them because they think they sound cool. And the whole "they save lives" argument is more to counter people's disdain of them than it is an argument based on any true facts - since no real definitive studies or facts exist.

That being said, I think the stock VN750 pipes sound great. They have a nice throaty sound without being overly obnoxious. And after having ridden on a Sportster with rather loud drag pipes, I much prefer the more mellow and toned-down sound of the stock VN750 pipes, esp. on longer rides.

But this is America, so I say if you want loud pipes, go for it. Just be aware that some people really don't like them. And if you rap them up a little too loudly and a little too often in certain areas, you risk pissing someone off - someone who may suggest an ordinance or something. And if you are going to use the whole "safety" argument, then instead of wearing a leather vest and no helmet, maybe start wearing a full face helmet and yellow safety vest. I mean, if you are REALLY that intestested in safety, wouldn't that only make sense? Loud pipes - ok. But arguing the safety aspect? Only if you are actually implementing all of the other suggested "safety" measures for motorcycling. Again, just my opinion.

Happy - and safe - riding all : )

AZ Kev
 
Good discussion. I like the sound of the loud pipes but lucky I don't have anyone next door to me going nuts at all times of the day. I've got the stock pipes and like leaving late at night and early in the morning for rides without worrying about what my neighbors think. I'd also like to have that loud rumber when I am out and about at times. Guess I am a fence rider.......peace out.
 
Those that still buy in to the idea that loud pipes consistently save lives have obviously not seen the "Harley" episode of South Park.....:)...(ha, ha, ha!)...:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word

This was easily one of the funniest things I've ever seen on tv.


A much better (and usually much cheaper--hey, new pipes are pricey!) way to stay safer that doesn't jeopardize motorcycle rights....read this:

http://m.motorcyclecruiser.com/streetsurvival/driver_visibility/index.html
LMAO I sent the link to all my Harley friends, I HOPE they think it's funny.
 
I think I'd rather have a set of loud horns. I can use those only when I need them.
 
Ok, here's my 2 cents worth. Having ridden for the last 40 plus years, i can honestly say that loud pipes will have no real bearing to a rider out on the road. In the city I can see it but what would improve a riders odds would be people that actually know what a motorcycle looks like and how to spot one. The cage drivers won't see or hear you as most of the time they have their windows up with the A/C cranked up. And now with all the cell phones today the problem has multiplied. All we can do is ride aware, and think ahead while riding.
 
Since others here have expressed their opinion on this, I guess I will go ahead and say what I truely believe here , and yes it is just my opinion and please do not get offended.

I more or less am siding with AZ on this, and this is why. From my 40 years of riding I have been a part of many types of bike groups...I road motorcross, I road raced, I have commuted, toured and at some point owned pretty much every type of bike out there.

The thing I am not seeing is the groups I have talked to or been part of, or just been to their particular forum, is none of them in my memory seemed to hold up the "Loud Pipe Saves Lives" sign....except this one.

It would seem that if it were actually true, Goldwing and BMW riders, sport bike riders, Iron butt riders, Sport/touring guys, and duel purpose or "adventure bike" riders would echo the same belief. But for some reason it seems only the "cruiser" bike owners are holding up that sign...and are the only ones that are running un muffled exhausts or just real loud pipes.
So.......


If the statement were true...why am I not seeing (or hearing) Goldwings with straight pipes, insanely loud sport bikes, and loud as hell duel purpose riders.... It is ALWAYS a big V twin...many times a Harley..but not always.

If the riders of those other bikes seemingly do not believe loud pipes make them safer, than it would seem to me that the statement is likely false...and the ONLY reason the custom V twin bike owner has loud pipes is because he just likes the sound of them. They make him feel good when he twists the throttle. He knows it is loud and obnoxious.

Some have the balls just to admit to it, and some don't.

No one wants others to think they are an azzhole, so they claim that the loud pipes make them safer. Some actually are in denial about what they are doing and really believe the bull shet that they are now safer because their bike is annoyingly loud.

Yes there may be a few that actually do think "loud pipes save lives" ...and I would love to see this somehow proven...but the fact that the largest group of abusers of your hearing are all owners of big V twins....and not any other type of bike kinda suggests it has nothing to do with safety and it is just the owners attempt to "belong" to that particular group of riders...or that they just really like the sound of a loud V twin and just don't want to admit it.

Yes, I have seen a few loud sport bikers. But ask them why they switched exhaust and they will tell you it was not an attempt to make the bike louder, they just wanted more power and liked the reduction in weight. (They have titanium exhausts that can shave off 30 pounds off your R6)

So really, if you like a loud bike just say you like your bike that way, it makes you happy, it gives you a good feeling to hear the motor roar when you twist the throttle open , and don't feed me that "Loud pipes save lives" crap.

Find me a unbiased scientificly correct study that shows I am wrong and I will gladly change my opinion.

KM
 
Discussion starter · #36 · (Edited)
Hello. Well as the originator of this thread I am very pleased to see the response from all of you so far. I wanted to throw out this about my Loud'er exhaust. When I bought my '86 back in July '09 It did not have the stock exhaust on it.....it had stock mufflers with drilled out baffles and a bunch of loose connections with alot of rust. So my bike was never quiet. I wanted to have a higher quality exhaust that would also allow me to remove the goat's belly and would hold up for years. I certainly was not going to buy OEM exhaust components due to the fact that It would cost the Value of the bike itself to put new Mama Kaw exhaust back on it. Also I wasn't going to buy your old OEM exhaust parts of E-Bay.....I already had rusty old junk.....I didn't want more of it. So I wanted a complete exhaust manifold back one piece exhaust.....To this day the only ones that I can find are V&H Cruzers, Jardine's, and MACS......which are all LOUDER......I do see your points that you fellas who don't like loud exhaust......when I am coming home late....I keep my RPM down and try my best to not wake you up......I am respectful in that sense. I just know that I went from riding a 454 LTD in June of '09 and constantly having people not notice me ....at all......to Sept of '09 riding my 750 with LOUDER V&H Cruzers and not having any not being noticed issues at all. My driving/riding style has NOT changed at all. In fact for those of you that mention horns......I was constantly having to use my horn on the 454 (which worked when it wanted to) to having my horn on my 750 broken most of last riding season....and never needing to use it once! I did put a Stebel Compact Air Horn on it for this season. We will see if I ever need to use it. I am not on the band wagon telling you that you SHOULD buy loud exhaust for your bikes......I am just saying that my experience of going from stock 454 megaphone exhaust to V&H Cruzer exhaust on my 750 has seemed to me ...been getting me noticed alot more......in my personal test.......I'm saying my driving style has NOT changed from one bike to the next.......the only difference between the two is exhaust volume.......and yet I am no longer being forced over in the emergency lane......or having to almost lock up wheels when cars pull out in front of me. I did not buy Loud exhaust to piss people off or to fly a flag saying "Loud Pipes Save Lives" ....I bought them because of there one piece high quality design........If the stock Kaw exhaust had been in perfect condition.....I would have left it alone......I have alot of other things that I gladly could have spent $320.00 dollars on....
 
I don't mean to sound like a dik here, but you bought a 30 year old bike and seem upset about rust.... How much did you pay for the bike BTW?


You can buy a reasonably quiet set of New mufflers for alot less than 200 bucks... Get yourself a JC Whitney catalog and make friends with a welder at Midas. ;)

My bike is almost scary quiet considering how much power it produces.... Yet I have not had any problems with cars trying to run me off the road. It just might be you live in hell... I don't know, don't want to make comments about Ky drivers as I only went through there once and never felt like a sitting duck.

Perhaps you should paint your helmet High-Vis yellow, Wear a High- Vis jacket , and do your best not to position yourself on cars blind spots, use your
lights and lane placement... And let us know if you still feel invisible...


Sorry, but those "seat of the pants" observations are so dependent on so many variables that I just find it hard to believe any one persons belief that they are subjected to less danger solely based on the volume of noise their bike produces.

How long ago did you ride that LTD? How many years did you ride it? Did it have it's headlight on all the time? Was it positioned the same az the Vulcan?

You see... Too many factors that can have an impact here. ;)


KM
 
Someone said that loud pipes sometimes startle them. The same goes for me, and also people in cars.

If you grab people's attention with your exhaust as equally as an emergency siren, you cause problems. People start looking left, right, and behind, while cars also encounter most dangers from AHEAD. Watch traffic the next time a fire truck rolls by... this is not how we want people to drive regularly.

To expect everyone within a half mile to notice you is selfish. Half the time you can't see a bike that loud, and hearing but never SEEING desensitizes people to the sound of a bike.

To expect that cars should notice us as easily as other cars is ridiculous. We are 1/8 the size of a car. We have to try much harder to be seen, and from my experience loud bike(r)s tend to drive like cars, relying on the size of their pipes to get noticed.

There will never be a substitute for safe riding habits. Motorcycles require more planning, more caution at intersections, ramps, and while passing cars. It will never be an even playing field, and if you aren't alright with this you shouldn't be on a bike. Don't expect merging traffic to slow down for you, don't ride alongside cars without seeing the driver's eyes. Don't pass at excessive speeds. It is harder to gauge a bike's speed, and a bike coming up from behind at a solid +20mph will seem like it came out of nowhere. The list goes on.

Nevertheless, we want everyone to share the road. Sharing is a two way street. It is understandable if a perfectly good driver does not see a poorly ridden motorcycle. It is not understandable that a perfectly good biker doesn't see potential hazards before they actualize. Not only do loud pipes disrupt traffic (as well as life alongside the road), but relying on loud pipes is dangerous for the rider. They give the rider the expectation of being seen by being heard, and if we start making assumptions with the bars in hand, we open ourselves to the possibility of being surprised while riding... then the cages seem all the more careless for nearly hitting us.

From what I've noticed, riders of quiet bikes are actually the best at actively engaging drivers' eyes. The eyes are the only sensory organs whose focus we can see. You will never be able to tell where somebody's ears are pointed...
 
While I do not agree with the sentiment, I respect the individual's right to their on beliefs. I can say with certainty that there is nothing on any of my bikes that will do more to keep the cagers from hitting me than the old gray soup in my skull. I've had loud pipes, on my cruisers and sportbikes, and I've never had a situation where the sound of my exhaust was the thing that got me out of the situation.
 
There will always be a debate on loud pipes as to whether they save lives or not. I have heard a lot of Harleys with straight pipes, and I believe the riders have them just to piss others off. They are obnoxiously loud, and they rev the hell out of them going through town, and can be heard for blocks. I have a neighbor who has a Harley, and he goes to work at 5:30 AM every morning, and his bike has straight pipes. I heard him every morning start it up. He would let it idle for about 30 seconds, then he would take off. He never revved it up, or tool off like a bat outta hell. He was always as quiet as he could be both going to work, and coming home. It never really bothered me, and after a week or so, I got used to it, and it didn't bother me any after that.
On the other hand if he was to sit and rev it up or take off winding it up, that would be different, and him and I would have problems.
Knifemaker and Bazooka Luca both have very valid points.
You need to be SEEN and as to loud pipes, yes they can be heard, and as was stated, people are going to look as to where they are coming from, and personally I don't want to be near a cage when they are gawking around looking for the loud pipes and end up running into me, or running me off of the road. I like my pipes to sound good with a nice deep rumble, not overbearingly loud. Yes mine are louder than stock, and I'm working on making them quieter, but not too quiet.
To me louder than stock is making a statement about the bike and rider to a point. Most everyone I know have made mods to their bike to make it personal to stand out against the rest. I think the pipes are part of that statement. Some are worse than others.
The debate will rage on long after we are gone.
 
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