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Discussion Starter #1
I bought a keyless alarm system for cars and am converting it into a keyless ignition system for the Vulcan. Here's how it will work: You walk up to the bike with the RFID tag in your pocket. The system recognizes the key-tag and waits for you to enable the ignition. This is done by pulling in the clutch lever and releasing. At this point the ignition is on and you can start the bike by pushing the start button. The engine is shut off by using the handlebar kill switch.

 

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So instead of the turning the key, you have to pull and release the clutch? Not really getting the point here, and not sure why you would want to mess with the electrical system, but make it your own! I'm sure you'll be the only guy on the block with a RFID keyless ignition system on his bike.

Now a remote choke and ignition system would be something that I could really use...
 

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So, the gear must be in neutral and you must remember to turn the kill switch to 'on' before you can even get the ignition on? Does not seem very handy to me.

Why not have the unit turn the ignition on automatically when the RFID is in range, and use the kill switch if you want to force it off. The engine would stop automatically when you walk away from the bike - wouldn't that be cool! Though I personally would feel uncomfortable parking the bike with engine running, and would be using the kill switch instead of the original ignition switch. Of course you could also shut it off with the remote control button.
 

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So instead of the turning the key, you have to pull and release the clutch? Not really getting the point here, and not sure why you would want to mess with the electrical system, but make it your own! I'm sure you'll be the only guy on the block with a RFID keyless ignition system on his bike.
Unless someone on the block owns a new Concours...they come standard with the keyless ignition. (Google - Kawasaki kipass)

And the real neat thing is if you drop your RF sender somewhere you are screwed.

Is it really that hard to turn a key ?




KM
 

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Discussion Starter #5
So instead of the turning the key, you have to pull and release the clutch? Not really getting the point here, and not sure why you would want to mess with the electrical system...
My key acts 'flakey' as it is. I have to wiggle and mess with it at times.....yeah, I know....take it apart and clean it.... but what fun would that be? Besides, the stock electrical system sux. I've been plagued by electrical problems and was planning to re-wire the entire bike anyway.

...And the real neat thing is if you drop your RF sender somewhere you are screwed. Is it really that hard to turn a key ?
If you drop your key your screwed too...... besides, I'm going to incorporate some kind of bypass in case the system fails. Keys are so last decade... :)

So, the gear must be in neutral and you must remember to turn the kill switch to 'on' before you can even get the ignition on? Does not seem very handy to me.
Why not have the unit turn the ignition on automatically when the RFID is in range, and use the kill switch if you want to force it off. The engine would stop automatically when you walk away from the bike....
You need both of those conditions to start the bike now (neutral and stop switch) In my case, 'ignition on' also means headlight on, amp on, and so on... I want to avoid inadvertently draining the battery. Lets say the bike is in the garage.... I walk out to the garage to get something (with tag in pocket) I don't want the bike to power on at that point,..... hence the deliberate clutch pull. I also wanted to make the possibility of turning over the engine in an unsafe condition minimal.
 

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This looks like a great project. Do it and have fun!

The system recognizes the key-tag and waits for you to enable the ignition. This is done by pulling in the clutch lever and releasing. At this point the ignition is on and you can start the bike by pushing the start button. The engine is shut off by using the handlebar kill switch.
If I read the above schematic correctly, the starter is enabled by the clutch lever which engages the latching relay, then the starter button can be pressed. Two questions: 1) what enables the IGN relay? Is it the same output as RFID TAG_PRESENT?, and 2) is the TAG_PRESENT output from the RFID module persistent? If not, restarting after a stall event will require some reset sequence.

This is cool.
 

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Cool Idea. My jeep key was flakey (It has fallen out of the ignition switch while driving ever since it was brand new). So I just bought a magnetic reed switch, a relay, a momentary switch and a toggle switch. I wired the relay between the toggle switch and the Fuel Pump. Then the reed switch to the other side of the relay. So basically you Flip the toggle, pass the magnet over the hidden reed switch, and press the momentary switch to start her up. She will run as long as the toggle switch is powered, flip the switch and she wont start up until the magnet passes the reed switch again. I originally had it wired where once the magnet left is shut down, but one speed bump later and I realized that wasn't going to work.

Basically I thought of doing the same thing to the bike. But I want to have the reed switch to interrupt the ignition circuit as well as activate the handlebar lock somehow. (Small servo or something, but I'm petrified of it failing and locking up while driving, even though it'd be pretty hard)

The best thing about the magnets is no one has to know where the switch is hidden (I keep one in my wallet and I always put my wallet in the cupholder when I drive, if you catch my drift.) And you can just stick extra keys wherever you find ferrous metal...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
...If I read the above schematic correctly, the starter is enabled by the clutch lever which engages the latching relay, then the starter button can be pressed. Two questions: 1) what enables the IGN relay? Is it the same output as RFID TAG_PRESENT?, and 2) is the TAG_PRESENT output from the RFID module persistent? If not, restarting after a stall event will require some reset sequence...
'TAG_PRESENT' relay is driven by a pin on the RFID unit. When the tag comes into range, that pin goes to ground. If the tag goes out of range before the latch is made, the 'TAG_PRESENT' will return to an open state. If the 'acc' line on the RFID unit gets 12vdc while the RFID tag is in range, the 'TAG_PRESENT' will latch closed and remain that way until power is lost on the 'acc' pin on the RFID unit. There is a 20A relay on the RFID unit, I call it 'K9_RELAY', that closes when you have both 'TAG_PRESENT' and 'acc.'
I use the 'K9_RELAY' to energize the 'IGN' relay, ect...
So once you get the 'TAG_PRESENT' and power to the 'acc' pin, the bike is ready to go....regardless of the RFID tag being in range. The only way to open the 'IGN' relay, after it is closed, is to put the kill switch in the STOP position. To answer your last question, the bike should start as long as power was not lost to the 'acc' pin.
 

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So, the gear must be in neutral and you must remember to turn the kill switch to 'on' before you can even get the ignition on? Does not seem very handy to me.

Why not have the unit turn the ignition on automatically when the RFID is in range, and use the kill switch if you want to force it off. The engine would stop automatically when you walk away from the bike - wouldn't that be cool!
This is exactly what I'm doing. I'll keep you posted. Anyone else on this forum actually attempt and complete anything like this?

And on that note, does anyone have a simple wiring diagram of the ingnition switch?
 

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Just More Stiff To Worry About LOL. Now Where Did I Lay My Car Keys Down At?
 

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How do you shut the headlight and the rest of the electrical system off?
I thought about going that route with a keyless system, but after you start it, your headlight, running lights and tail light is on. The only way to shut them off is to turn off the key.
 

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So with this design.
Is there a time delay after pulling in the clutch lever? (say 10 seconds after the clutch lever is pulled and there is no further attempt to start, does it auto cancel?)
What happens if some kid walks down the street and pulls the lever? Does anything happen without the presence of the RFID? Obviously, the bike won't start, but will it still enter a ready state where it is looking for the RFID and waiting for the start button to be pressed?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
How do you shut the headlight and the rest of the electrical system off?
I thought about going that route with a keyless system, but after you start it, your headlight, running lights and tail light is on. The only way to shut them off is to turn off the key.
The kill switch is how you shut the bike down. It kills the engine and lights, etc...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So with this design.
Is there a time delay after pulling in the clutch lever? (say 10 seconds after the clutch lever is pulled and there is no further attempt to start, does it auto cancel?)
There is an auto cancel for the RFID. If it goes out of range before the clutch is pulled, it will reset.

What happens if some kid walks down the street and pulls the lever? Does anything happen without the presence of the RFID?
nothing will happen without it first seeing the RFID tag....then you can pull the clutch to enable the bike to start.

Obviously, the bike won't start, but will it still enter a ready state where it is looking for the RFID and waiting for the start button to be pressed?
No.....
The system is always "looking" for the RFID tag. Once it is within range, then you can pull the clutch. Once both of those actions have been taken, the only way to take the bike out of the "ready" state is to hit the kill switch. The idea here was to make sure the bike won't fall out of the ready state based on the RFID tag.... in case it losses contact for some reason. So once the bike is "ready" to start, the RFID unit has nothing else to do with the electrical system..
 

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It was my understanding that the kill switch only kills the motor and does not shut off the lights......

And my point about dropping the fob was a key is in the ignition.. A fob in your pocket could fall out. If your not aware you dropped it your screwed as soon as you kill the bike.

Making a backup switch to cover this again just makes the main control redundant....

Yes keys are so last decade.....funny on a bike that's over ten years old to begin with....;)
 

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I was curious about the kill switch, as on our bikes, hitting the kill switch stops the motor, but it don't kill the headlight, and the rest of the electrical system.
You would have to re-wire the switch to do that.
I'm seriously thinking about putting a switch on my bike to kill the lights during the daytime like the older bikes have. Wouldn't be too hard to do. Less drain on the system.
 

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dariv,
Great idea in applying automotive wireless alarm technology to a keyless ignition. It looks like you have given this a lot of thought. I have a Concours 14 with the Kipass wireless ignition system. On the Concours forums Kipass has generated lots of strong opinions. It seems most riders like it, but there are some that really hate it. (I like it.) I won't go into the pros and cons here.

I havn't reviewed all you circuit logic, but here are a couple of comments for what its worth:

You may want to consider adding a contact in series with the power to the alarm electronics (from the clutch switch??) so that it is not powered all the time. Depends on how much power it consumes and how long it takes to initialize and read the RFID tag. The Kipass system powers up and looks for the wireless fob only after the ignition "knob" is pressed. (It takes less than a second after a momentary contact is closed.) RF transmission generally takes a fair amount of power (compared with the electronics) and you don't want to drain your battery if your bike sits for a couple of weeks.

To address the issue of riding off without your RFID fob, you could add a LED in the "tag present" circuit. (Kipass has a diplay to notify you if you ride off without the fob.)

Good thought to add a backup / bypass approach. (Kipass does this.)

Although it may not be a problem, I suggest that you play around with the antenna location and RFID detection range and coverage. You don't want a "dead zone" in the area of your pants pockets. ;)

Cool project - good luck.

(I'd be glad to answer any questions about how Kawasaki's Kipass system works if I can.)
 

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No.....
The system is always "looking" for the RFID tag. Once it is within range, then you can pull the clutch. Once both of those actions have been taken, the only way to take the bike out of the "ready" state is to hit the kill switch. The idea here was to make sure the bike won't fall out of the ready state based on the RFID tag.... in case it losses contact for some reason. So once the bike is "ready" to start, the RFID unit has nothing else to do with the electrical system..
So what kind of power draw are you looking at for the RFID reader and other gear that is always looking for the RFID keyfob? Or do you plan on leaving the kill switch set to off all of the time until ready to start up? Lets face it, the electrical system on the bike is already a weak point, and this is just throwing another item to drain at the battery while the system is not recharging it.

Granted, I think its a pretty cool idea, just trying to get an idea on all of the angles.
 

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I'm seriously thinking about putting a switch on my bike to kill the lights during the daytime like the older bikes have. Wouldn't be too hard to do. Less drain on the system
Like that idea,,, been pondering on the light switch myself. I guess it stays on for safety reasons, etc.... look out here i come with my head light on. Thinking about getting one of those street workers reflective tops to ride with too! Anyone doing that? I seen a couple of bikers ridding with them on a few days ago.
 
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