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Discussion Starter #1
okay, I bought this '96 and it had been sitting in an unheated garage for 3 mos., brought it home, battery was junk, so bought a mf, also while at it iridium plugs, seafoamed new gas in tank, and drained bowls, couple of "specks" in one, filled bowls with SF and let sit over night, drained bowls, nothing new, air filters clean, new gas, plugs removed on carbs, 2-2.5 turns out, tried to start and this thing will wear your thumb out pushing the start button !!! it will crank forever and not hit, choke on is worse !! no question bike is running RICH, after she finally starts, she'll hit every time at the touch of the button. i have talked to Ccspinner about it and most of the above that was done is due to his much appreciated advice and knowledge. I do not want to bug him constantly though, so i am seeking some more advice on this issue, I have and do wrench on cars for some years now, new to bikes, so i am learning as i go. Also I have a '93 sitting beside the '96 for my girlfriend and of course, hers runs perfect!!, i have also 'marbelized' both bikes and done the r/r relocate and greased the splines, thanks to all on here for the pointers, this hard to start thing is pissn me off though, possible float problem? I await and thank all for any suggestions and/or comments, gotta get this bike running right!! '96 has 6k on it, GF's '93 has 8k.
 

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Did you check the spark ? Turn it over at night in the dark to check for spark "Leaking" to ground.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
yes, the spark is fine, and once it starts, it has no more problems starting until it sits for several hours/overnight. thanks
 

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My 86 is hard to start, and I have done everything, like you, to make it better. To make matters worse, after I ride it somewhere and let it set a few minutes it is even harder to start. I sometimes get a giant backfire when I get ready to leave the donut shop, or wherever. I was hoping that the newer bikes, like yours, had cured this problem. I guess not.

Mine seems to be fuel related. Now when I park it I lock the throttle full on. I find that helps get it going again. So, what is that telling me? Somehow it seems that fuel continues to enter the combustion chamber when the bike is stopped. How can that be? Is my petcock weeping?

Questions, questions, questions .... and no answers on my part.

Jack
 

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Discussion Starter #6
no, i have not adjusted anyhting on the carbs , other than the air screw as stated, I have no experience with dual carb adjustments, on a car or bike.
 

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okay, I bought this '96 and it had been sitting in an unheated garage for 3 mos., brought it home, battery was junk, so bought a mf, also while at it iridium plugs, seafoamed new gas in tank, and drained bowls, couple of "specks" in one, filled bowls with SF and let sit over night, drained bowls, nothing new, air filters clean, new gas, plugs removed on carbs, 2-2.5 turns out, tried to start and this thing will wear your thumb out pushing the start button !!! it will crank forever and not hit, choke on is worse !! no question bike is running RICH, after she finally starts, she'll hit every time at the touch of the button. i have talked to Ccspinner about it and most of the above that was done is due to his much appreciated advice and knowledge. I do not want to bug him constantly though, so i am seeking some more advice on this issue, I have and do wrench on cars for some years now, new to bikes, so i am learning as i go. Also I have a '93 sitting beside the '96 for my girlfriend and of course, hers runs perfect!!, i have also 'marbelized' both bikes and done the r/r relocate and greased the splines, thanks to all on here for the pointers, this hard to start thing is pissn me off though, possible float problem? I await and thank all for any suggestions and/or comments, gotta get this bike running right!! '96 has 6k on it, GF's '93 has 8k.
Usually they start when they're cold and hard to start when hot-But anyway, unfortunately I haven't had to take my carbs apart and the only thing I know is that the choke doesn't restrict the air, it enriches the fuel supply. Have you dug into the choke system? Starting fine when hot and refusing to start cold sounds like it isn't working. I'm sorry all I can do is toss bones to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
thanks, ironman. i have not dug into the choke system at all, save to look at all linkages, they appear to be working properly, i too am puzzled by the fact that with the choke "on" it wont even begin to hit, choke off and finaly it will start, to turn choke on after getting it started only and always kill the engine?
 

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Could be a problem with the plungers (which are operated by the choke). Are they lifting when you move the choke cable?

I think once the bike's started and you open the choke (let fuel in), it'll often kill the bike. But I couldn't tell ya why. I just know that my 92 will die if do that, so...
 

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Check your voltage on the red wires on each coil with bike key on, engine not running. Both should be above 12v. If they're lower than that, compare it to the voltage on your battery terminals again with key on and engine not running. If there is any difference, then even though you've seen spark, it's probably not strong enough to fire up a cold engine easily. Believe me, on a bike that's not new, this is worth checking out. It might just be your problem. I've bypassed my coil power wires using new wire and a relay. I didn't really need to do this mod, but just wanted to make sure it worked good on the vn750 before I recommended it on one. It's a standard procedure on old KZ's that I just brought with me from kzrider.com.
 

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thanks, fergy. i will check the voltages in a few minutes, gotta eat my salad, and to answer cindy's question, yes the plungres are moving properly, this is really getting to be a pain in the [email protected]&. thanks for all the suggestions and help.
 

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fergy, check pm's
 

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Check your voltage on the red wires on each coil with bike key on, engine not running. Both should be above 12v. If they're lower than that, compare it to the voltage on your battery terminals again with key on and engine not running. If there is any difference, then even though you've seen spark, it's probably not strong enough to fire up a cold engine easily. Believe me, on a bike that's not new, this is worth checking out. It might just be your problem. I've bypassed my coil power wires using new wire and a relay. I didn't really need to do this mod, but just wanted to make sure it worked good on the vn750 before I recommended it on one. It's a standard procedure on old KZ's that I just brought with me from kzrider.com.
Fergy, just for my edification (and since I've already admitted to being challenged electronically), can you help me understand why the low voltage would be too low to start a cold bike, but perhaps ok one that's warmed up? THanks.
 

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We did have this question before, When the choke is away from you it is off. When it is piointed twards you it is on.
How did it act after you filled the cafbs with seafoam and then emptied them?
You could try to turn off your Petcoc, just in case it is leaking.
I wish I was closer so I could put a hand on it. That would help.
You could try to switch tanks with the 93 and see if that helps. Will eliminate the petcoc question.
I will keep thinking and hope I don't start to smoke:)
 

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Fergy, just for my edification (and since I've already admitted to being challenged electronically), can you help me understand why the low voltage would be too low to start a cold bike, but perhaps ok one that's warmed up? THanks.
The spark is actually creating heat which is what causes the igition. Since the cylinders havent had a chance to warm up yet, the spark has a smaller margin in which it still produces enough heat to ignite the air/fuel mix. This is why on cold days it always cranks once or twice, cause the plug is getting warm. once the cylinder is warm the plug doesnt have to be as hot, since some of the heat is now comming from the engine. Hope that made since, it did in my head as the hampster was turning the wheel.

I 2x the spark issue. sounds like that or the starter isnt turning fast enough, but you just got a MF so that should solve that.
 

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Thanks for that Hizzo! I was sitting here trying to remember why it makes a difference, but my coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

As far as switching the tanks, I think we got Stacks mixed in with Mark on this thread. Stacks, if you are dribbling fuel through when the bike is sitting, you've probably got a leaky petcock. If it's leaking through the vacuum port, that would create a rather large rich running condition on top of everything else. I'd pull the fuel hose and see if it's leaking while the bike is sitting. If not, pull the vacuum hose and see if you're getting leaky there. Sounds like it's time to rebuild your petcock or replace it. One more thing, if the bike is sitting and leaking gas into the combustion chamber, that gas is eventually leaking past the rings and into your oil. BAD! You'll want to fix the problem and then change your oil before you run the bike.
 

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I had the hard to start, rich running problem awhile back. I used seafoam as recommended but in the end ended up pulling the carbs. About all I did was tear them apart and put them back together again. They were a little dirty inside but nothing major. I also blew out all the jet holes and the like with low pressure air. I also replaced the small air cut diaphrams ( for the smog control system) as they had lots of pin holes in them. After reassembly and install, I haven't had any problems. If your spark tests OK, it might be worth checking the carbs. If the bike has been sitting for a long time, the carbs seem to be affected especially if the bike was stored out doors in the rain and other bad weather.
 

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The spark is actually creating heat which is what causes the igition. Since the cylinders havent had a chance to warm up yet, the spark has a smaller margin in which it still produces enough heat to ignite the air/fuel mix. This is why on cold days it always cranks once or twice, cause the plug is getting warm. once the cylinder is warm the plug doesnt have to be as hot, since some of the heat is now comming from the engine. Hope that made since, it did in my head as the hampster was turning the wheel.

I 2x the spark issue. sounds like that or the starter isnt turning fast enough, but you just got a MF so that should solve that.
Thanks, Hizzo (and thank your hampster for me, too).
 

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Discussion Starter #19
jim,
thanks for the advice on the carbs, that is exactly what i am doing now, pulling the carbs off, what a bit#% !!! tight quarters in there. I hope i find something that will make this all worth while, i will keep all posted, thanks again - mark
 

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I had trouble getting Orleans to start after I put the carbs back on - same deal; starter just wouldn't kick it in. Carl Manning emailed me and said to work with the carb sync screw - sometimes, he said, you just have to get it a little closer and it will just up. Sure enough, that did it...and she started up regularly after that. That said, it still wasn't running very well, so I pulled the carbs and am trying again.

If you look through one of my posts from...last weekend, I think...a mechanic had told me about how to semi-sync the carbs when they're off the bike. Use the idle adjust screw to get both throttle plates open to where you can see them (i.e., see that they're both open); then use the carb sync screw to bring the rear carb plate in line with your front carb. Placing a thin piece of wire (even a paperclip) under the plates will allow you to get them close to even; then, once the carbs are back on the bike, you can fine-tune the sync.

If it is that you're carbs are just outta whack, this may help.
 
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