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2003 VN750
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This pic is just before flushing the cooling system for the second time. I had already removed a tablespoon of red muck, and that was after the first flush.

....well I guess I'll wait until I can post pics again. The buttons just aren't there.

Looks like Mods can edit the Vulcan Verses, so I'm asking someone to edit the thread recommending Dexcool to use in our bikes.

It turns to red mud in your cooling system.

"In 2003, GM owners filed a series of class action lawsuits against the car manufacturer. Approval of the GM Dex-Cool settlement was given in October 2008. GM received over 68,000 claims and paid $6.1 million to settle about 40,000 of the claims..."

Prestone also made a settlement.
 

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2003 VN750
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
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The radiator cap and the coils of the trans cooler both cleaned up to a bright silver color, somehow I don't have those pics. The wind blew the pile of mud away as I was trying to get pics of that.

The heater core plugged off tight just after the first flush, and about a half cup of mud blew out of the core when I flushed it by itself.

This is nasty stuff, vinegar won't break it down. Ended up using Cascade dishwasher powder, pre-dissolved in hot water.
 

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I wonder why some vehicles have more of a problem with Dexcool than others. Do you suppose they have more components made from materials other than aluminum that react to the Dexcool? I know I completely changed my Vulcan over to "universal" coolant that is compatable with all colors and have had no problems. My Fords all use green coolant strictly just like my Firebird. I am very carefull to let no one but myself add anything to any of my vehicles so as to eliminate any contamination issues even with brake fluids. Most are compatible (DOT 4 can be used in DOT 3 systems they say) but unless I am on the road somewhere away from home, I will not take a chance. Actually my regular green Zerex and my orange Dexcool are stored so no one even knows I have "extra" antifreeze if any is needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Find a way to get rid of the deathcool, I kept a gallon around and it ended up in a vehicle.

I researched quite a bit but don't recall the reactions and chemistry involved. I just know it's not for cooling systems. It might make good ballast for tractor tires, but there are cheaper liquids.

My last three vehicles purchased came with Dexcool and mud. I do recall picking the last vehicle up and the seller put green antifreeze in it before I left. There's a theory that mixing it causes the mud, but I think it occurs anyway.. Another theory blames exposure to air, but there's always air in the overflow bottles.

This truck has been the worst I've seen, so much mud in two flushes. It couldn't have lasted much longer, but looks like new now.
 

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The only experience I have with it is in my 2004 XJ8. (The natural aspirated one not the supercharged one.) I purchased it as the 3rd owner with meticulous records detailing it had been serviced at the dealer until my became its keeper. I am currently preparing to change out the water pump and various coolant hoses as a preventative exercise. I have had to replace the coolant overflow tank due to a crack developing in a small fitting that provides coolant to the throttle body. At the time I drain everything to replace the water pump I will flush the system with distilled water, then refill with new Dexcool coolant. While I am aware that it may age out and need to be replaced it does appear that any mixing with coolant other than Dexcool will cause a problem.

Others on the Jaguar forum have indicated their suspicions that their coolants have been contaminated with other coolants that do result in a sludge forming. Especially in the nooks and crannies of one of the heater cores or near the auxiliary water pump. Since many owners seldom top off their systems themselves, or add anything that does not have the much more expensive cat emblem on it from the dealer, the sludge is known but not prevalent. Most who have encountered a problem can actually identify the culprit who added the incorrect coolant. That or it occurs following a flush while doing a conversion to the different coolant.

Given how few metals there are related to the coolant system in the Jaguar that are not aluminum or some type of high end composite I have been thinking about that. I am switching to a water pump with a metal impeller whereas the stock one came with a composite impeller.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The only experience I have with it is in my 2004 XJ8. (The natural aspirated one not the supercharged one.) I purchased it as the 3rd owner with meticulous records detailing it had been serviced at the dealer until my became its keeper. I am currently preparing to change out the water pump and various coolant hoses as a preventative exercise. I have had to replace the coolant overflow tank due to a crack developing in a small fitting that provides coolant to the throttle body. At the time I drain everything to replace the water pump I will flush the system with distilled water, then refill with new Dexcool coolant. While I am aware that it may age out and need to be replaced it does appear that any mixing with coolant other than Dexcool will cause a problem.

Others on the Jaguar forum have indicated their suspicions that their coolants have been contaminated with other coolants that do result in a sludge forming. Especially in the nooks and crannies of one of the heater cores or near the auxiliary water pump. Since many owners seldom top off their systems themselves, or add anything that does not have the much more expensive cat emblem on it from the dealer, the sludge is known but not prevalent. Most who have encountered a problem can actually identify the culprit who added the incorrect coolant. That or it occurs following a flush while doing a conversion to the different coolant.

Given how few metals there are related to the coolant system in the Jaguar that are not aluminum or some type of high end composite I have been thinking about that. I am switching to a water pump with a metal impeller whereas the stock one came with a composite impeller.
It's your choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks to the unknown mod that edited the coolant thread in the Verses.

It's a really long post, would probably be better to have the warning at the beginning instead of the end. I know if I was skimming for info, I might stop after the coolant was named and not see the one sentence at the end.

Honestly don't know if you can still buy this goop, but it's still around.
 

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Yeah, Dexcool and compatibles are such garbage. I only use OAT/HOATs. Zerex G05 is good. Euro coolant is good but overkill. Asian blue or red is just as good (and they're the same formula really). Always backflush, and use distilled water if you're not using premixed.
 

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Dexcool is kind of like the OG of the OAT/HOAT type coolants. They all can do really good jobs. The problem is they do not mix with the older "green| methanol and ethylene glycol based coolants. Whichever you choose it is best not to mix colors. Especially if one is green.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Dexcool is kind of like the OG of the OAT/HOAT type coolants. They all can do really good jobs. The problem is they do not mix with the older "green| methanol and ethylene glycol based coolants. Whichever you choose it is best not to mix colors. Especially if one is green.
That doesn't explain cases of the red sludge where colors weren't mixed.
 

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Dexcool is kind of like the OG of the OAT/HOAT type coolants. They all can do really good jobs. The problem is they do not mix with the older "green| methanol and ethylene glycol based coolants. Whichever you choose it is best not to mix colors. Especially if one is green.
Dexcool is itself another ethylene glycol based coolant.

That doesn't explain cases of the red sludge where colors weren't mixed.
That's exactly what Dexcool does wrong, not just its incompatibility with some others. The compounds that protect the system get used up quickly, components fall out of suspension and sludge up, and it's known to dissolve gaskets and some sealants that it isn't supposed to. From nearly the beginning, those who know have called it dex-kill. UIM gaskets were notoriously dissolved away until complete failure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Dexcool is itself another ethylene glycol based coolant.



That's exactly what Dexcool does wrong, not just its incompatibility with some others. The compounds that protect the system get used up quickly, components fall out of suspension and sludge up, and it's known to dissolve gaskets and some sealants that it isn't supposed to. From nearly the beginning, those who know have called it dex-kill. UIM gaskets were notoriously dissolved away until complete failure.
Dexkill, hadn't heard that one, more descriptive than Deathcool.

It's irritating to change rotten head gaskets on low mileage engines.
 

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Almost every forum from Porsche to Cadillac debates Dex-Cool, Reminds me of discussions regarding E-85 gasoline or using K&N air filters.

I think that since so much of our bikes were designed and built with materials created prior to the mid 1980's it is too bad Kawasaki jumped on the Dex-Cool wagon so fast.

What ever coolant is used I firmly believe in complete care of the system. Checking for bad hoses, o-rings, seepage/leaks, regular flushes and coolant replacement. Avoid, if humanely possible, ever adding tap water to the system and try not to mix products without reading their specifications for compatibility.
Also keep an extra pressure cap around just in case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Here's some good ole Dexcool!

 

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View attachment 54319

The radiator cap and the coils of the trans cooler both cleaned up to a bright silver color, somehow I don't have those pics. The wind blew the pile of mud away as I was trying to get pics of that.

The heater core plugged off tight just after the first flush, and about a half cup of mud blew out of the core when I flushed it by itself.

This is nasty stuff, vinegar won't break it down. Ended up using Cascade dishwasher powder, pre-dissolved in hot water.
I have had for years a 1987 chevy van with a 5.7 TBI. This red sludge has always puzzled me. I've replaced about all freeze plugs and put in 3 or four radiators over the years. Now that it is explained, any suggestions on how to flush out the engine?
 

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I have had for years a 1987 chevy van with a 5.7 TBI. This red sludge has always puzzled me. I've replaced about all freeze plugs and put in 3 or four radiators over the years. Now that it is explained, any suggestions on how to flush out the engine?
I began with my old faithful white vinegar and didn't get very good results. It cleaned but I found out via the web that vinegar can't dissolve the really hardened Dexcool sludge. My heater plugged up in a couple of weeks after the vinegar flush

I used Cascade dishwasher powder. I put roughly a cup, maybe more, in a container of hot water and stirred vigorously until it was mostly dissolved, just some harder blue spheres were left but I worked on it until a lot of those dissolved. A blender would probably do a better job. You'll notice the hot water getting hotter, with the chemical reaction.

I always take the thermostat out for these major flushes, the stat will close quickly when you get to the flushing stage, and that stops circulation, taking more time to warm things up. So I took the thermostat out first.

I drained the antifreeze, dumped in the cascade, filled with water. (tap water is fine for flushing) I went out and drove for at least a couple of hours, with the heater temp set on high. (in summer)

Came back and flushed until clear. I use one of those brass twist type nozzles that will fit inside a heater hose. Take the top radiator hose off at the radiator, and take one heater hose off, insert the nozzle and go. Think I did fire it up with a heater hose open so I could see which way it flows.

When I'm done, I always flush the heater core in both directions.

The internet says Cascade dissolves the sludge well, but there's also talk about using a citrus product. Cascade is used a lot when there's oil in the cooling system.

It's stubborn stuff, that's why it's best to remove it ASAP, my truck still has traces showing in the coolant, but it's clean enough now. Should get better on the next flush.

Distilled water is cheap, and it's worth it for mixing the new antifreeze. Finally learned that.

I'm losing coolant now, hope it's not a head gasket, already did the water pump because it was leaking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks. So flush back from the heater hose and the sludge comes out the top at the thermostat housing?
Yes, just let it flow out of the top radiator hose. Just happened that skid plate directed it into the pan. Then after it's flowing clean, unhook the other heater hose and flush the heater core in both directions. I used the one heater hose to connect the garden hose, but also let the radiator fill through the radiator cap at different times. Just trying to shake the stuff loose in the there.

Normally, the cooled water comes from the bottom radiator hose and comes out of the top rad. hose.

I found these really slick hose clamp pliers. Cable operated and lets you stick it in those tight place for those factory squeeze type clamps. Otherwise I'd have to take the fan shroud off to get the bottom hose clamp off.

I forget everything I was doing at the time ... a water pump, thermostat, and the second time around flushing out sludge. Was also looking at installing an electric fan. I could barely stand up at the time, so it's kind of blurry to me now.
 

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Ok, tnx. When replacing freeze plugs over the years I would stick my finger in and feel one to two inches of red sludge in the bottom of the block. So in springtime I will try to get most of it flushed out.
 

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This pic is just before flushing the cooling system for the second time. I had already removed a tablespoon of red muck, and that was after the first flush.

....well I guess I'll wait until I can post pics again. The buttons just aren't there.

Looks like Mods can edit the Vulcan Verses, so I'm asking someone to edit the thread recommending Dexcool to use in our bikes.

It turns to red mud in your cooling system.

"In 2003, GM owners filed a series of class action lawsuits against the car manufacturer. Approval of the GM Dex-Cool settlement was given in October 2008. GM received over 68,000 claims and paid $6.1 million to settle about 40,000 of the claims..."

Prestone also made a settlement.
I have been using engine ice in both my Vulcans and when I drained it so I could put new o rings on my coolant pipe going into the head the color was the same as it went in four years ago my bikes run normally cool and never had any issues with either bike it’s premixed and a half gallon is what I used in both bikes. Cost about 35.00 half gallon.
 
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