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Discussion Starter #1
First, I'm just doing some experimental testing and am not recommending or endorsing anything here. I couldn't find any info on anyone trying to Darkside a VN750 so I'm testing it on my VN700 and hope to have some results, one way or another. Right now, I'm stuck with my limited tools and can't get the rear tire bead to break loose from the rim. Don't want to run over it anymore with my F100. So tomorrow, I'll have to take it and get that done.

After searching online for a tire I decided to go with the Firestone F560 155R15. The bad is online you can't look at the tires and hardly any info about these "Classic Car Tires" is forthcoming. And when I tried to order a 155R15 no one had them in stock. I ended up buying a Firestone F560 145R15 and it looks quite small. I wish I could have gotten a 155R15 to test!

The only problem I see so far would be getting the tire to seat on the VN700 Rear Rim...and it doesn't look like it will be a problem at all. But I'm not sure if this tire will turn out suitable or not. I hope the get the old tire off and the new Firestone mounted tomorrow. Maybe have more info then.
 

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and the Adventure Cycle
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This will be interesting.:smiley_th

In the future, for a tire change, if you've got an extra $80 or so, Harbor Freight has a manual tire changer with a motorcycle tire adaptor. HERE is the changer (with built in bead breaker) for $39.99 and HERE is the motorcycle tire adaptor.
Although, it shows the adaptor for $52.99. I got a flier in the mail with it on sale for the same price as the changer. You can request the flier and catalog to be sent to you via snail mail.

I've got one of these set-ups and they work just fine for bike, car & light truck tires
 

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A six foot long 2x4 and a one foot 2x4. (or 6inch/8 inch/just "pretty short")

Lay the wheel on it's side near work bench, wall, car wheel, something heavy and not moveable. Stick one end of the 6 foot against the heavy object and bring the other end across the tire towards you. Wedge the 1 footer between the six foot and the edge of the rim right at the bead.

Step back, grab the end of the six footer and pull down, and the bead "breaks".

Just sharing a little experience....
 

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Sparky!!!
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Gotta love my tool box....a 32' trailer packed full of goodies, tire changing equipment, welder, oxygen acetylene torch, 15k generator, microwave fridge, and any hand tool you can imagine, along with some stuff you probably never seen or will see again...lol changing my tire using my tool box....10 minutes...ohh and that is by hand...not a machine...
 

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Growling at the World...
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All I got to say is that the original tire on that 750 is SAD... hehehehe!!!
 

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I'm thinking of moving to the darkside too - if I can find a shop to do the tire change. My choice is a lower profile tire like a 155/60 to ride the interstate commute.

DT
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Problem: Can't get the 145R15 to fully seat the bead to the rim on one side at one spot. And moving the tire to another position the same place on the tire will not seat. So, it's not the rim. Wore me out today and will try to mess with it more tomorrow. It almost seats but not quite.

Also, another thing with the tire and I get different opinions. At the spot that won't fully seat there is an indentation in the tire on the sidewall running from the tread to the rim...across the sidewall about the size of a finger is a little dip. My friend says the tire has a broken belt in the sidewall and will likely vibrate if I do get installed. And he called several guys over that agreed with him. Being hard headed, I took the tire to a Tire Center for their opinion. They told me that it was just a seam where the belts were joined together and some tires have two or three spots like that. That it didn't mean a belt was broken. Now I'm not sure what to believe. Anyone have opinion on this?
 

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Giggity!
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Go check the tire on your other vehicles. It's a very common thing. I'm not going to say what it is. That I'm not sure of. But I do know it's not anything to worry about. It is on most tires.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I hope that's right kanuck, and seems like the Tire Center people that deal in tires should know. I just went out and with the help of a screwdriver to get the stuck side to seat first the tire finally stuck at a different point...but it still sticks. I put 70#'s of air in the tire, squirted some liquid Dawn in the space where it's stuck, and put it in the Explorer to bake. I'm having doubts that I will ever get the tire to seat now.

Max tire pressure says 44#'s...
 

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HAWK
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I have seen that before and it is just the place where belts are joined, they are correct.
You may have to up the pressure to 40 to get the bead to seat.
also do you have tire lube on the bead?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I was using liquid dish washing "Dawn" and a mixture of it mixed with water as the tire/rim lube. After thinking about it overnight I think today I'll break the side that won't seat loose and pry the tire's lip N, S, E, & W like I'm going to take it off...rumor is that "Rubber Stretches," and to a point that is maybe true. :)

Also, I will try to center the bead with the rim and try to keep one side from jumping on all at once...if I could get it to go on all at once, straight and together, it should help. Once one side seats it leaves the other side at a disadvantage. Just something I'll try, first without any lube and then with some kind of lube. Wish I had a tire center strap to bind the center and see if it would kick the tire lips out and mount easier.

I'm thinking bacon grease or some cooking grease for a lube today.

I got today and tomorrow to mess with it, after that I'll think about a cheap Maxxis so I can ride awhile and try messing with the Firestone F560 again some other time...like Winter.

About the Firestone F560 for Darksiding, it probably is not the best choice since it is a soft tire with a 1 ply sidewall. With the tread gripping the ground the Drive Shaft on my VN700 can be a little merciless at times...I wouldn't want low air to give much play in the sidewall. Without air the tire feels soft, with a full load of air the tire seems to step up a bit. If I can ever get the tire fully seated on the rim I'll give it a little test run.

Play Safe!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Tire Seated!

Impossible to get the whole bead to seat all together, one side will inadvertently pop on first. With a little cup of "Canola Oil" and my finger I coated the wheel rim lip all the way to under the deep side and bottom to top of lip on the tire, at 84#'s of pressure the tire popped in place. Now, since it is an experimental car I want to take it and have it spin balanced. Will see how it goes and with any luck put some rubber to a little test soon.


Tough Side:
 

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85 VN 700
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This may be showing my lack of understanding of tire mounting procedures... but ...

Canola oil? Isn't that a bad idea? I thought soap, tire lube, etc was used because it dries to something not slippery... I guess canola oil KIND of does... but oil coated stuff is always a bit slick... right?

That said, looking forward to ride impressions, etc if you decide you're comfortable with OIL being in between the bead and rim...
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
This may be showing my lack of understanding of tire mounting procedures... but ...

Canola oil? Isn't that a bad idea? I thought soap, tire lube, etc was used because it dries to something not slippery... I guess canola oil KIND of does... but oil coated stuff is always a bit slick... right?

That said, looking forward to ride impressions, etc if you decide you're comfortable with OIL being in between the bead and rim...
You may be right, maybe not a good idea. I read of guys using a lot of corn oil to get a difficult tire to mount Darkside style but maybe the 84#'s of pressure was all that was really needed. Right now, I'm not popping it back off. Maybe do better next time. But the manual said not to use any "Petroleum" based grease or oil for lube because of its deteriorating effect on the rubber and left me looking for slick as owl ****e on my own. :)

BTW, looking at the picture I posted I noticed the tire looked a little off under the word "Firestone." Went out to check and it is so, the easy side is good all around, but this difficult side is a little off center at that one point.

The guy that owes me a free MC tire spin balance is 50 miles away...I'm considering whether or not to put the trip off a couple days.
---

Plans change:






Decided to just put tire on bike and see how it ran as it. One side is a tight fit with a tight spot, maybe a little friction will loosen things up...seems to rotate and track good so far. At first, with 50#'s of air it felt like a wet seals skin back there. After letting the air down to 42#'s it felt not so wet.

I would have liked a 155R15 better. I'll ride it some and see how it feels.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Did you have it balanced? If not why, the wheel weight? :confused:
No balance, wanted to have it spin balanced, but $25 for gas to make the trip...On my bike, I think the weights might be balancing the rim wheel itself. Anyone ever hear of that and is it possible?

I left the weights on the front when I changed the tire and it was still balanced. Left the weights on the rear and as far as I can tell, so far, the wheel spins good.

Made a 25 mi. trip around the block late last evening. Got up to 60 mph a few times. The tire began to feel pretty good to me, better than one with the cords showing anyhow. Should get a couple 100 mi. on the tire today and then begin to have a better opinion. Got 11,200 mi. on the bike so if it holds up I'd like to see what kind of mileage I can get from a tire like this.

The 145R15 left about 1" clearance on each side, so looks like up to a 2" tire size increase would work. I think a 155R15 tire would be about perfect for the VN750...for me anyhow.

Actually looks pretty good too, I'll try to get a better pic.
 

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I've never seen anyone leave the weights on a wheel when changing tires car,truck or motorcycle. The weights are there to adjust the tire and wheel together, more-so for the tire, which has more mass then the wheel.

When I changed my tires. The rear had 2 wheel weights about 2" from the valve stem, I pulled them off. Them I checked the balance of the wheel, (without the tire), by supporting the axle at both ends. Then I spun the wheel a little and see where it stopped, I did this 3 or 4 times. Low and behold the wheel stopped at the same exact place where the weights were on the bottom every time. So the wheel was already heavy at that spot. That Dunlop must of had a real heavy spot, to add more weight to the heaviest part of the wheel.
When I mounted up the Kenda, I put the yellow dot on the tire at the heavy spot on the wheel and did the balance deal again. The wheel never stopped in the same place twice. So I figure it's very close to being balanced.

Here is a good tire changing guide for the do-it-yourself-er.

Tire changing

Glenn
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yeah Glenn, I do odd things. You're probably right and ordinarily I'd agree. But when I changed my front tire I almost removed the weight immediately as usual, but then thought that a weight on a wheel might be for a wheel...if you look at car rims you could fine one welded on the inside of the rim. At least I think I remember noticing that sometimes a long time ago.

And odd, after leaving the weight on the front wheel and installing the new tire, there was no heavy spot. The front wheel was balanced with the weight as it was. Kinda unusual I thought.

And the rear tire ran smooth as silk up to 75MPH on the interstate today with the same two weights as on the Dunlop. Still kinda unusual if you ask me. I'm not sure why this is but I'm hesitant to remove the weights when they are rolling so good. I'm thinking I might should just leave good as it is and buy a can of "Ride-On" Sealant to tune up balance if it is needed.

Right now, it just feels good to have some good rubber on the ground. So far, I like the tire just fine. Little car tire on a little 700cc VN700, if this is the darkside I might not ever come back. :)

Firestone F560 @ 11,200 miles on bike...looking to see how many miles a little tire like this can go. Not for everyone, but maybe for me.

---
 

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This will be interesting.:smiley_th

In the future, for a tire change, if you've got an extra $80 or so, Harbor Freight has a manual tire changer with a motorcycle tire adaptor. HERE is the changer (with built in bead breaker) for $39.99 and HERE is the motorcycle tire adaptor.
Although, it shows the adaptor for $52.99. I got a flier in the mail with it on sale for the same price as the changer. You can request the flier and catalog to be sent to you via snail mail.

I've got one of these set-ups and they work just fine for bike, car & light truck tires
Hyper,

Thanks for the info! I'm getting ready to change my tires out, and called HF to place an order for this setup. Based on your post, I got the discount price just by mentioning that I saw it in a flier. The discount item number is slightly different from the item number online. For anyone else interested in the motorcycle tire adapter, the item number is 42927-3VGA. This number gets you the $39.99 price.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'm thinking about ordering that setup too. Wouldn't take long to pay for itself either.

I finally took my rear tire back off and took to have the balance checked yesterday...it was a little off. Popped the weights off and had it spin balanced. :) Noticed NAPA has some AmerSeal Tire Sealant...16oz. for $9.99. Thinking about maybe trying it. Anyone ever use it?

I dropped the air pressure down to 38 pounds and noticed I could take the curves better. Still not comparable to my old Dunlops on the twisties though. After a few more trips I'll try 36 pounds. Still looking for that "Sweet Spot" I've read about.

http://www.cartiresonmotorcycles.com/
 
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