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Rider on the Storm
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Discussion Starter #1
State laws about motorcycle helmets are exceedingly controversial, as the threads on this site bear ample witness.

You may be interested to know that today's CNN online poll question is this: "Should motorcyclists be required to wear helmets?" As of this moment, over 60,000 votes have been cast: 77% say yes; 23% say no. (As always, it is noted that "This is not a scientific poll.")

Anecdotally: Yesterday I rode a 100-mile circuit (mostly on randomly-chosen country roads and blue highways) from Cincinnati to Brookville Lake in Indiana and back via Oxford, OH. It was a beautiful Fourth of July, and motorcycles (mostly cruisers) were everywhere. And most of the riders were NOT wearing helmets.
 

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Headbanger/Popes of Hell
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were is the link? I'd like to vote! I'd vote "NO"! it's riders choice! although I do feel everyone who rides should wear a helmet, BUT I don't feel it should be required by law!
 

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Giggity!
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That is interesting. I bet it was mostly non-riders that said we should wear helmets (weather your for it or against it) After all, it is law in Ohio now you have to wear a seatbelt in a cage.

I still think that should be my choice.
 

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Up here in Rochester, NY I see a lot of different types of riders. I see the Harley riders with the tee shirt, shorts, and novelty helmet. The younger crowd seems to favor the same gear with the exception of a full face helmet. There are very few people with proper riding gear on, IMHO. That doesn't mean we need more laws to protect us from ourselves. You can't legistrate common sense.
 

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Up here in Rochester, NY I see a lot of different types of riders. I see the Harley riders with the tee shirt, shorts, and novelty helmet. The younger crowd seems to favor the same gear with the exception of a full face helmet. There are very few people with proper riding gear on, IMHO. That doesn't mean we need more laws to protect us from ourselves. You can't legistrate common sense.
I noticed that yesterday when I was cruising around Orleans and Niagara counties. Shorts sleevless shirts and sneakers seemed to be the preferred riding gear. Tons of non-DOT helmets. I might look stupid in my leather when its 85 out but its vented very well and I'm partial to my skin. I'm surprised how many people get away with those "novelty" helmets the way NYS Troopers are always lurking around every corner looking for revenue. Should really be the riders choice. Did you hear about the guy in the Southern Tier this weekend who was protest riding with no helmet, crashed and died?
 

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Why don't people wear helmets?

Because of all the dumb asses out there that are afraid to wear a helmet because it might not be 'cool'... and their friends might make fun of them.

It only shows how much of a 'follower' they are.

Stupid is, as stupid does.

I'm not sure about forcing helmets with law, but buying a helmet is an added expense for those just starting out, and without being required, can be enough of a deterrent to keep them from wearing one. Once they get in the habit of not wearing one, that becomes their 'norm'. If they had to buy one starting off, then they might get used to wearing one.

I believe the movie star Nick Nolte used to protest against helmet laws... until he busted his gourd and got a head injury. After that, he protested FOR helmet laws.

Same thing with seat belts. People do NOT like change. Once they get in the habit if NOT wearing one, it's hard for them to get used to it. Nowadays, since it's been mandated, people are used to it, and they've saved untold numbers of lives. Same thing with car seats.

Unless I'm just putting a dirt bike around the yard, I always wear a helmet. I worked with a guy who got a head injury on a 4-wheeler. Messed him up for life. Couldn't do his job, anymore... and left him running at around half his mental capacity. I'm sure he's on full disability right now, drawing tax dollars.
 

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I wear a helmet but don't really get into the debate one way or the other. One plus side is that supposedly it cracks down on folks stealing bikes for joy rides since folks looking to steal a ride don't usually carry a helmet with them.
 

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gun slinger
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I would say "no" it's my choice! But if they say you are required by law to use a brain bucket then I would because "law abiding citizens "follow the laws right?
 

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Super Moderator
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If you can scrape the money together to buy a bike, you can save up to buy a helmet too... So don't give the "I'm poor " speech unless the bike is the only transportation you own...

Most bikes are secondary vehicles... Meaning their owners also have a car or truck.

Many dealers give you a discount on a helmet if you are buying a bike from them. If you plan to buy a bike, work in the price of gear beforehand.

And as shocking as it might be to some of you, if it came to asking me to vote on having a helmet law in my state, I'd vote to make helmets mandatory.

Government involvement aside here.... I could not in good conscious tell anyone they don't have to wear a helmet. If you told your son he didn't have to wear a helmet because it's "legal" in your state, how would you feel if he died from a head injury?

I get tired of reading about folks using the "freedom of choice" arguement, when they seem to have a double standard on it if it's one of their kids......
 

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If you can scrape the money together to buy a bike, you can save up to buy a helmet too... So don't give the "I'm poor " speech unless the bike is the only transportation you own...

Most bikes are secondary vehicles... Meaning their owners also have a car or truck.

Many dealers give you a discount on a helmet if you are buying a bike from them. If you plan to buy a bike, work in the price of gear beforehand.

And as shocking as it might be to some of you, if it came to asking me to vote on having a helmet law in my state, I'd vote to make helmets mandatory.

Government involvement aside here.... I could not in good conscious tell anyone they don't have to wear a helmet. If you told your son he didn't have to wear a helmet because it's "legal" in your state, how would you feel if he died from a head injury?

I get tired of reading about folks using the "freedom of choice" arguement, when they seem to have a double standard on it if it's one of their kids......
We are not your kids. You can't preface something by saying "government involvement aside here" and go on to aspouse government involvement. We are not the government's kids either. If you want your kids to wear a helmet tell them to.
That being said I won't ride without one. I've crashed dirt bikes way too many times and know you always hit your head when you crash a bike. However, freedom means the freedom to be stupid as long as it's not effecting someone else.
 

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Rider on the Storm
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
To take the poll, just go to the home page - CNN.com - the day's poll is always on that page somewhere, usually on the right side about halfway down.

Each day's poll usually relates to some current news story. I think this particular poll is being presented not simply because this is "riding season" for many, but because of the recent news story of the guy who was on a group ride protesting mandatory helmet laws. Stopping suddenly, he took a header over the handle bars and suffered a fatal head injury. He was not, of course, wearing a helmet.

Late breaking news story: sorry folks. The motorcycle helmet poll has suddenly given way to "Were you surprised by the verdict in Casey Anthony's murder trial?"
 

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Super Moderator
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We are not your kids. You can't preface something by saying "government involvement aside here" and go on to aspouse government involvement. We are not the government's kids either. If you want your kids to wear a helmet tell them to.

However, freedom means the freedom to be stupid as long as it's not effecting someone else.
Yes I can...and I think I did...;)


And I did not know that was the definition of Freedom.

You missed my point I guess. I was saying that folks make the whole issue a political one, but not looking at it that way, could you in clear concious, tell someone NOT to where a helmet?

By joining the "freedom of choice" crowd, you are in effect doing that. "I don't know you, if you want to risk your life, go ahead, I do not care" And that is the crux of the biscuit here...folks not caring. The same arguement can be used to find "reason" to legalize drugs, walk around naked, or piss in public. "I'm not hurting anyone" (why do I still get a ticket for speeding when no one else is on the road?)

NOT wearing a helmet does effect someone else. The paramedics that waste the effort in trying to save you, the insurance companies that raise rates effect everyone, and your family dealing with the loss of their breadwinner.

I was saying that if asked, I would vote for mandatory helmet laws...now, in my thinking, that is one of my freedoms, how dare you question it...;)

KM
 

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Yes I can...and I think I did...;)


And I did not know that was the definition of Freedom.

You missed my point I guess. I was saying that folks make the whole issue a political one, but not looking at it that way, could you in clear concious, tell someone NOT to where a helmet?

By joining the "freedom of choice" crowd, you are in effect doing that. "I don't know you, if you want to risk your life, go ahead, I do not care" And that is the crux of the biscuit here...folks not caring. The same arguement can be used to find "reason" to legalize drugs, walk around naked, or piss in public. "I'm not hurting anyone" (why do I still get a ticket for speeding when no one else is on the road?)

NOT wearing a helmet does effect someone else. The paramedics that waste the effort in trying to save you, the insurance companies that raise rates effect everyone, and your family dealing with the loss of their breadwinner.

I was saying that if asked, I would vote for mandatory helmet laws...now, in my thinking, that is one of my freedoms, how dare you question it...;)

KM
LOL you did indeed. I retract that part of my statement. :beerchug:

I did not say that was the definition of freedom did I? At any rate it was not implied. Freedom means many things, the point I made above is just part of it.

As far as the freedom crowd being implicit in convincing people to not wear helmets I disagree. I already stated that I would not ride without one,and since I am part of the freedom crowd you just defeated your own argument. I'm not going to get into how ridiculous prohibition is we'll save that for another thread.

Your point on not wearing a helmet effecting others is a strawman argument. You could make anything illegal with the base point being; something may happen to you that will inconvenience EMT's or take you away from your family or raise insurance rates. Jeez bro, you could make walking without a helmet illegal.

Lastly, you cannot vote away my freedom. That is not your right. (at least it's not supposed to be) This country wasn't meant to be a democracy. Democracy at it's base is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner. We are supposed to have a constitutional republic. But I digress.......
 

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...could you in clear concious, tell someone NOT to where a helmet?
no one is saying NOT to wear a helmet.


By joining the "freedom of choice" crowd, you are in effect doing that.
That's a ridiculous statement, even for you... :doh:
What if we had a mandatory safety class, like the MSF, to obtain the privilege to operate a motorcycle on public roads? We do it for cars, so why not bikes as well? Show a picture of a guy with his head split like a melon. But at the end of the day, the government gets to make the call because they own and maintain public roads.

...The same arguement can be used to find "reason" to legalize drugs, walk around naked, or piss in public. "I'm not hurting anyone" (why do I still get a ticket for speeding when no one else is on the road?)
I don't have a problem with marijuana, or any other naturally occurring intoxicates. Walking around naked violates our social morays, it is acceptable in other places around the world. Pissing in public is of course unsanitary. You get a ticket because your "speeding." If the law read you could drive as fast as you want when no one was around, then you wouldn't get a ticket.

NOT wearing a helmet does effect someone else. The paramedics that waste the effort in trying to save you, the insurance companies that raise rates effect everyone, and your family dealing with the loss of their breadwinner.
You forgot the taxpayers that have to pay you social security, welfare, and whatever other social program/handout you get after the accident.

I was saying that if asked, I would vote for mandatory helmet laws...now, in my thinking, that is one of my freedoms, how dare you question it...;)

KM
No one is questioning your freedom, just your usual half-baked logic and tongue-in-cheek rhetoric. :)
 

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Concert connoisseur
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Why don't people wear helmets?

Because of all the dumb asses out there that are afraid to wear a helmet because it might not be 'cool'... and their friends might make fun of them.

It only shows how much of a 'follower' they are.

Stupid is, as stupid does.

I'm not sure about forcing helmets with law, but buying a helmet is an added expense for those just starting out, and without being required, can be enough of a deterrent to keep them from wearing one. Once they get in the habit of not wearing one, that becomes their 'norm'. If they had to buy one starting off, then they might get used to wearing one.

I believe the movie star Nick Nolte used to protest against helmet laws... until he busted his gourd and got a head injury. After that, he protested FOR helmet laws.

Same thing with seat belts. People do NOT like change. Once they get in the habit if NOT wearing one, it's hard for them to get used to it. Nowadays, since it's been mandated, people are used to it, and they've saved untold numbers of lives. Same thing with car seats.

Unless I'm just putting a dirt bike around the yard, I always wear a helmet. I worked with a guy who got a head injury on a 4-wheeler. Messed him up for life. Couldn't do his job, anymore... and left him running at around half his mental capacity. I'm sure he's on full disability right now, drawing tax dollars.
I believe that was gary busey!

and as far as the whole issue and this might be my next tat, metallica said it best. "Freedom, with their exceptions"
 

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Well thank you all for letting me exercise my right to be stupid.... Which is kinda where I was wandering there. Sarcasm aside and half baked as it was, we will never get to vote on any issue like this, as even the government realizes that as a whole, the public is stupid, and the need to protect us from ourselves is thereby needed.:)

If you pass a law that says you don't have to wear a helmet, there will be stupid people that will believe that means "you are safe" without one, lacking the sense to realize the dangers on their own. The stupid will die along with those smart enough to make their own choice not to wear a helmet , based on facts they are smart enough to understand.... But this means that those making the choice with no forethought other than "it's not against the law" in effect are going to die needlessly.

Easy to say "not my problem"... But agreeing that there should be no law requiring a rider to wear a helmet is still, to me, being socially irresponsible... When we all aware how many stupid people there are out there.... ;)
 

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Well thank you all for letting me exercise my right to be stupid.... Which is kinda where I was wandering there. Sarcasm aside and half baked as it was, we will never get to vote on any issue like this, as even the government realizes that as a whole, the public is stupid, and the need to protect us from ourselves is thereby needed.:)

If you pass a law that says you don't have to wear a helmet, there will be stupid people that will believe that means "you are safe" without one, lacking the sense to realize the dangers on their own. The stupid will die along with those smart enough to make their own choice not to wear a helmet , based on facts they are smart enough to understand.... But this means that those making the choice with no forethought other than "it's not against the law" in effect are going to die needlessly.

Easy to say "not my problem"... But agreeing that there should be no law requiring a rider to wear a helmet is still, to me, being socially irresponsible... When we all aware how many stupid people there are out there.... ;)
Ahh....collectivism at its finest. Bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator therefore bringing equality to all. You would make Karl Marx proud!
 

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Old Truck Junkie
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When I read the words "socially irresponsilble" in your last statement, it kind of gave me a bad feeling. I may be off base but it felt like the commune should look out for us all. We should look out for ourselves and ours with out the help of big daddy.
I feel for those that lost thier loved one. And I agree wearing a helmet is a simple think to do. Not riding a bike is also a simple thing to do. They may want to outlaw bikes because people get killed on them even when wearing helmets.
My 2 cents the best way I can say it. Not intended to piss any one off.
 

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Super Moderator
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When I read the words "socially irresponsilble" in your last statement, it kind of gave me a bad feeling. I may be off base but it felt like the commune should look out for us all. We should look out for ourselves and ours with out the help of big daddy.
I feel for those that lost thier loved one. And I agree wearing a helmet is a simple think to do. Not riding a bike is also a simple thing to do. They may want to outlaw bikes because people get killed on them even when wearing helmets.
My 2 cents the best way I can say it. Not intended to piss any one off.
Perhaps "irresponsible" was a bit harsh. Guess I feel that as a "motorcyclist", I should in some respect, offer a "positive" front. Not doing anything that casts a negative image, and to , if called for, be "pro safety".

I would wish we all could feel the same, and not let politics, "Americanism", or anything ...sway that us from what is just plain common sense. We instead keep making it an issue of "freedom" and not trying to save lives. Even one life lost needlessly seems such a waste.

Sorry, guess it's just me.....
 

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On His Lady Vulcan
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Its always smart to wear a helmet yes, but dont be pushing your beliefs on me that I should by law be required to wear one if I choose not to. Our forefathers must be turning in their graves with the current governments power control over its people today.

As one of my favorite Bands once wrote in their lyrics "It's still, We the people, Right"? So I say, put it to a vote, let the people decide, not some damn politician that "Thinks" they know best.
 
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