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Linkmeister Supreme
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I`m the guilty cager here, and I`m confessing to you all. It was almost a SMIDSY situation, as in Sorry Miss, I Didn`t See You.

The situation: clear, dry roads and clear visibility. I`m on a 2 lane service road about 3 blocks long, running north and south and it is 1 block west of the main 6 lane highway leaving town. This is the new main shopping area of town as the big box stores move in. I pulled onto the road from a parking lot and traveled 1 block north up the stem of a T intersection to a stop sign, where I STOPPED, preparing to turn left onto another 2 lane road.

To my right is an empty parking lot behind a funeral home, where I can see traffic is clear all the way to the highway. To my right is a large furniture store, and several vehicles parallel parked on the street on the near side to me. I slowly eased ahead looking past the parked cars and waiting for a couple of cars to pass from left to right in front of me, then checking again that I was clear to go.

My peripheral vision had not detected any vehicles coming from my right, but I made a quick glance just as I was starting to move to make my left turn. As I turned my head, there was a shapely young woman in a baby blue jogging suit and hat, at the right front corner of my Delta 88, and giving me a look like like What the ####? :hitanykey I stopped again, rolling no more than a couple of feet after I saw her.

Where did she come from? All I could think of was the righteous indignation we express on this board when a cager pulls out in front of us on a bike, like we are invisible. And here I had almost done it to a jogger.

My best guess right now is that she was still blocked by the funeral home, and/or the "A" pillar of my car between the windshield and front passenger side door when I first checked to the right, while rolling up to the stop. As she was jogging, not walking, she was covering ground two or three times faster than a person walking would have done. I simply was not prepared for someone on foot to come from that direction, traveling that fast.

In my defense, I have not often seen pedestrians or joggers in this area, especially this time of year. The roads were clear and dry but the temps were only about 20*F. I am going back there sometime this week to look over the layout again and try to figure out where she came from, and why I did not see her until I almost knocked her down.

After writing this and re-reading it a couple of times, I believe the young lady made a mistake here too, not that it excuses me in the least. When I am walking across an intersection where cars are present, I always make eye contact with the driver before stepping in front of their car, and maintain the contact until I am clear. If the driver breaks eye contact it gives me a warning that he may not have seen me, and I have a split second more to get out of his way. We are all pedestrians sometimes, and some may be joggers or runners. Making eye contact with drivers is not a guarantee you will be seen, but I believe it tilts the odds further in your favor :smiley_th.
 

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Was she in the road or on a path?
 

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I think you did good man. No harm, no foul I say. You didn't hit her, you saw her just in time. Yeah she might have been put off but she's not hurt. If all it did was help you have a better eye out next time at that intersection I say its a good thing. What does "shapely" mean? It that a good shape or not so good?
 

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Linkmeister Supreme
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Discussion Starter #4
Was she in the road or on a path?
I think you did good man. No harm, no foul I say. You didn't hit her, you saw her just in time. Yeah she might have been put off but she's not hurt. If all it did was help you have a better eye out next time at that intersection I say its a good thing. What does "shapely" mean? It that a good shape or not so good?
Q #1. - She had been running on a concrete sidewalk, and was 2 or 3 strides onto the unmarked crosswalk when I saw her.

Q #2. - Shapely means real easy on the eyes!! ;) It does NOT mean round, as in round is a shape. LOL. If I had noticed her 10 seconds earlier, I would have stopped well back just to watch her jog past. After all, girl watching is my second most favorite pastime! :smiley_th
 

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[Public Service Message On]

As a long time bicyclist, I can tell you that a lot of bike/car accidents happen because drivers are really only in the habit of watching for cars. Riding your bike in the road, with the traffic, is the best way to stay safe. Riding (or walking/running) against traffic, especially at intersections, puts you in a place that the drivers are not likely to look, because they're simply habituated not to. This makes sense - who spends a lot of time looking to see if a car is coming the wrong way down the lane toward you? Instead you focus on where you expect cars to be (i.e., in the correct flow of traffic.)

Still, most of us do a quick glance at the "against traffic spot", but how many of us "reglance" before we start to roll out into traffic? That space can quickly become filled with a pedestrian or a bicyclist.

So if anyone complains to you about a cyclist riding *with* traffic (and I'm not talking about holding up traffic or riding like a jerk, but simply riding as a vehicle) do me a favor and point out how easy it is for cars to hit someone walking/riding *against* traffic. The second it takes to pass a bicyclist is far preferable to ruining a pair of lives by hitting someone who was traveling in your mental blinders.

[/Public Service Message Off]
 

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They always say that pedestrians have the right of way...and many pedestrians/joggers believe this and will not even think about how easily they are seen or even think about "Walking defensively".

The fact that you can kill them very quickly without harming you car a bit never seems to cross their minds.

The woman jogger in my view here was at fault, she , just like we have said of poor riders, assumed she was seen. She came from a direction not normally in the areas drivers look at, and in my opinion is lucky and should be thankfull that you did see her in time to avoid hitting her.

When we talk about bikes, we always say a bike will not win over a car...well a unprotected jogger/hiker is no match for 2+ tons of steel and should really watch what the phuk they are doing, and not start blaming the guy in the car for "not seeing them"

So next time honk your horn and yell at her to watch what she is doing.


KM
 

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Shapely means real easy on the eyes!! ;) It does NOT mean round, as in round is a shape. LOL. If I had noticed her 10 seconds earlier, I would have stopped well back just to watch her jog past. After all, girl watching is my second most favorite pastime! :smiley_th
You and me both Hoss! That being said the only thing I think you did wrong here was not have your camera out in time to snap a few pics! I've been to several places in Canada several times after hearing from Europeans how hot the girls were. Let me tell ya, they weren't kiddin'! I wish I could tell the story of "Le Cage" here but its so inappropriate...
 

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Another thing to consider is that people jogging are often in a kind of zone, and are tuning out the world. Especially those with headphones on. They are listening to music that acts like a metronome, to help them keep a pace. Bikers and cyclists seem to be the only ones who are usually alert. Because they know the danger. And sometimes we are not.
 

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You can't feel too bad about this. I have a full size chevy extended cab + 8 foot box that is red. More than once I am going down the road planning to make a left with me having the right of way, there is a person on the road I am turning onto that is making a left onto the road i am on. I see them looking both directions but not at me,right in front of them (full size, 8foot box RED truck) I stop wait for them to jump forward then see me and hit the brakes, I shake my head and make my turn. I don't know what else to do.
 

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Linkmeister Supreme
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Discussion Starter #10
Red is not the most visually attention getting color according to some studies that I can`t quote offhand. About 30 years ago our local fire dept. switched to bright yellow trucks from the traditional red for this reason. I read somewhere else that bright yellow or school bus yellow was the most visible under the widest variety of light conditions.

In the past couple of years I have read that the lime green color we are seeing on some safety vests is the most eye arresting. I have shone a green laser into a dark night sky and it is visible for a very long way. If it touches on something solid like a pole, wire or wall, it lights up like a neon tube.

Getting back to the topic at hand, the fire dept. started buying red trucks again a few years ago because they now had flashing strobe lights on the trucks that were bright enough to give them the safety they required, and still be able to drive the traditional red fire truck they wanted.

Soooo... Stiervulcan, I guess if you want to be noticed in your big red Chevy, you are going to have to get some strobe lights, or at least modulators like our bikes!! <BG>
 

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Soooo... Stiervulcan, I guess if you want to be noticed in your big red Chevy, you are going to have to get some strobe lights, or at least modulators like our bikes!! <BG>
May be... can I get the horn too? and one for the bike!

We have yellow ones too, some red. I can see your point, I also tend to drive slower than most so I might have been in the same scenerio as the "SMIDSY" guy...kinda.

I just think it is funny to an extent, they are whipping their head from side to side very quickly. That is when I know they don't see me, no eye contact just looking down the road. The look on their faces as they hit the brakes full force, arms locked straight against the steering wheel is pricless :wow:

I don't think I will find this funny at all once I start riding, very scary thought. I will no longer be in my big red cage, the bike is bluish-green so not very eye catching. I have always been a defensive driver and offensive when need be, to get out of the way. I consider merging on the highway properly offensive driving, you got to get up to speed and in there. Idon't know what people are thinking when they slow down to merge. :BLAM:
 

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First of all, what normal guy does not notice and enjoy looking at "shapely" young women, especially jogging?

I see one mistake she made here, and that was using headphones. Using a cell phone, even a hands free one, would have been just as bad. When you are in a dangerous situation, such as driving a car, riding a bicycle or motorcycle, jogging, or just plain walking, in an area where there is traffic, or any other danger that needs to be seen and or heard, you need to be paying FULL attention to what you are doing, and what is going around you. You do not need any distractions. If you want to listen to music or use a cell phone, first remove yourself from the dangerous situation. I have a stereo at home, and I have 8 track players in both my cages, but only use them out on the open road, never in town, and do not own an IPod or CD player with headphones.


By far the most visible color for a vehicle is white. Both my car and truck are white. As is my most used street helmet.

Pedestrians almost always do have the right of way if you hit one, unless it is a situation where they just sudden ran right out in front of you. Anybody intent on getting themselves killed can stand beside the road, and suddenly run out in front of a fast moving vehicle. There is nothing the vehicle driver can do at that point. Unfortunately, many pedestrians do just that, simply because they were not paying attention.

I also used to be a bicyclist, and still ride occasionally, but it isn't much fun anymore, since I have developed severe arthritis. One of the most dangerous things, actually THE most dangerous thing to a bicyclist is cars pulling out from cross streets or parking lots on your right. Most do not stop, and even where there are stop signs or stop lights, they run right past them, and past the sidewalk and bike lane before stopping, because the only thing they are concerned about is getting hit by oncoming traffic. If there is a bicyclist in front of them, he/she is now underneath their car, unless the bicyclist was paying attention, and expecting the car to do that, which they should always be, because the car almost always does that. Once the car does come to a stop, or slow roll, if they don't see any cars coming really close, they step on it and make a fast turn, often squealing the tires. They usually don't see motorcyclists either, so if you are riding a motorcycle, YOU need to see them, and expect them NOT to see you. Jerry.
 

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Jerry, I agree about the bicycling. People will look right at you and I believe that it just does not register. I was riding down a rather busy road and a cager was leaving a parking lot, he saw me but I knew he would gun it if there was a space. He looked at me but that was it, he saw me then started looking for cars so I went around the back of him.
Another time riding on the same road this a-hole thought is was funny to lean out the window and scream when they went by. I didn't see them coming since I was riding with traffic. I wished I had a gun but realized it was best that I did not.
 

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Linkmeister Supreme
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Discussion Starter #14
By far the most visible color for a vehicle is white. Both my car and truck are white. As is my most used street helmet.
I will agree that white is ONE of the most visible colors under MOST light conditions, especially those weather conditions where you are riding a motorcycle.

However if you live where you drive in snow and ice for 6 months of the year, a white car is like camouflage and virtually disappears in blowing snow, or in front of snow banks.


I still think the researchers are right when they say that bright yellow and green are the best compromise colors to be noticed taking all lighting conditions into account.
 

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Well after reading through this thread and posting the last reply, I forgot to do what I came on for in the first place.

I went back to the intersection yesterday to look things over better, and to see what I had missed while driving and almost knocking the jogger down. The first thing I noticed were two 40 foot tall evergreen trees close to the intersection and blocking the view of the side walk except for the last 30 feet or so, until I was at the stop line or beyond it. There was also a large pile of snow in the corner of the parking lot, close to the trees and also blocking the view of the sidewalk for a considerable distance.

It became a lot clearer to me how I had rolled ahead several car lengths at a slow speed and never caught a glimpse of the young lady. I normally check at least twice in both directions before pulling onto an intersecting road. This has been a good lesson to me to make sure to take that second glance to the right for something unexpected, not just the expected.

Be careful out there, whether on 4 wheels, 2 wheels, or 2 feet, someone is out to get you, whether they or you know it, or not!
 

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By far the most visible color for a vehicle is white. Both my car and truck are white. As is my most used street helmet....
Actually it is yellow. You might think something white would be easy to see or pick out, but tests on humans has shown that they are more likely to notice a yellow car before a white one. White of course would be borderline camoflage in snow, and a white shinny car can pick up adjacent colors , like green, when driving through shady foliage.

"Neon" yellow or chartruse, commonly refered to as Hi Visibilty colors, are 3 times more likely to be seen than flourescent orange. Road crews and hunter only pick the orange because of the colors it will be contrasting with, namely black asphalt and the green leaves.

Once the sun has gone down, colors are fairly useless and it is the lighting of a vehicle that causes it to stand out. Reflective strips, running lights and of course flashing lights are of good use at night.

There is in our subconcious the abilty to recognise things as "threats" to our well being. If a driver is not paying attention, it is quite possible for their eyes to register seeing a bicycle , jogger, or even a motorcyle ... but not pass that information on to the concious brain, as these objects do not constitute a "threat" to them , in their big steel cage.

The only way to overide this phenomina is to change the appearence of said bicycle, jogger or motorcyle in such a way that it no longer conforms to the image normally associated with said object. Bright lights, Neon colors, flashing/pulsing lights are usualy the best solution. Oddly, joggers can wear strobing lights but in it illegal to have flashing lights on a motorcycle.

Headlight modulators are legal in most states, but only help for those viewing from straight ahead...and can't be used at night. Neon colors , extra running lights will help , as will exaggerated movements. Anything to break the spell of inattetive drivers and make them conciously aware of your presence.

One should also remember to use their horn. A crisp "toot" to the car on the side road will not be seen as a signal for them to go ahead...as flashing your highbeams might, and has the advantage that sound is something they normally would not be expecting.

I rode a bicycle for many years before replacing it with a motorcycle. The key problem I noticed is car drivers are completely unaware how fast a bicycle can actualy travel. Their brain, even if it does see you conciously, somehow dismisses you on a bicycle because "you can't be going very fast" .

This is seemingly the same issue when you notice that car on the side street waiting to pull out. Although you are in fact far enough away from them that they could safely pull out , they seem to wait untill the last second to do so...after you now have closed the gap to the point that you will have to break to avoid hitting them. They just seem to take so long computing the speed you are traveling that by the time they figure it out...it is in fact too late...but they make their move anyway.

This seems to happen alot more when I was riding a bicycle as opposed to motorcycle...but then , it still happens now and then when I am driving my car... LOL.



Way back some years ago, I was driving a friends pick up truck back to his home after it had some work done on it at the shop. I was going through a residental neighbor hood and came to as stop at a intersection with 4 way stop signs. I could not see down the left road because of some large bushes on the corner, so I edged out a few feet to have a better look. At about 2 full seconds after I did this , a jogger had come onto the road on my right....and ran into the side of the front fender of the truck. Hard enough to bounce off and almost fall over.

The jogger...a man in his 20's, yelled at me "Hey watch out *******, you almost ran me over!"

My reply was " Run you over? I was sitting still, You ran into me dikwad, YOU watch where you are going."

He suddenly looked scared, and ran the back the other way. I go out to make sure he had not dented the fender, and saw him running back down the sidewalk from the direction he came. The fender was fine and I told my freind the story when I got to his place.

He then descrbed the jogger to me perfectly....seems the local runner has almost gotten killed a few times by folks in the neighborhood. There was even a rumor that he was legally blind..........



KM
 

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Red is not the most visually attention getting color according to some studies that I can`t quote offhand.
I had an incident tonight that proves you right. I thought I was definitly getting into an accident.

It has been snowing pretty bad the last two days,and it was night time. But I was on my way to work and stopped for food. I pulled out onto the road which goes past a rather large parking lot, I can see a mini-van coming across the lot.

I am about to pass the exit he is heading to and realize he is not going to stop. I thought I was going to ram the side of him, i think he was doing 25 or so. This was all instinct cause I had to stop and think about it after it happened. I turned away hard, sending me directly at a utility pole, I turned back and floored it kicking the ass end away from the guy. Some how not jumping the curb and hitting the pole.

I was waiting for the crunch I don't know how close it was but I thought it was going to happen. So I slow down to about 15 rolling down the road thinking about it and saying holy **** holy **** holy ****...

This is the icing on the cake right here, I see a car coming at me about 6-7 houses away. Thinking this guy saw the whole thing and must be thinking that was close. It was a cop, I think wow talk about right place & right time. I am still going slow I watch him in my rear veiw go past the road the guy went on (he went straight, there is a street across from the lot exit) go to the end of the road and turn the opposite direction. I couldn't believe it, he watched it happen and did nothing.

Like I said I am used to the stop and jump but no stop at all! I still don't know how we didn't crash.
 
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