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Drive less, ride more...
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Mainly for the benefit of those who are new (or relatively new) to riding, I thought I would share how I crashed my bike last Tuesday afternoon.

Exiting an interstate at rush hour, I came down the off ramp and was about to merge onto the adjacent (underpass) road in a right turn, when a lady in a car pulled out to my left front.

Although she was (in truth) not too close for comfort, I apparently grabbed too much front brake, locking them up.

On our bike (or any bike without ABS), if the front brakes are locked up at a decent (or greater) speed, and the front wheel is at any real angle away from straight ahead, the bike will slide out from under you, resulting in a "low side" crash.....:wow:

Currently, I'm recovering from some road rash on both forearms, and a sprained (very swollen, with different shades of black and blue) right ankle. Other than that, I'm ok.

The bike, however, is a different story.

The damaged parts that kept the bike from being rideable have been replaced, thanks to a local friend who offered some spare parts of his (a rear brake pedal, and a right side foot peg). The right saddlebag will need to be replaced, and also the front fender. The worst news for the bike--this crash bent the front right fork.

Anyway, I hope the above helps others avoid the same. It can be very easy (in certain circumstances) to grab too much front brake too fast. If you do, you will go down.

The other lesson to this story is: dress for the crash--not the ride. As a newbie or a rider, you may think, "bad things only happen to others." But the simple truth is, each time you go out for a ride, the odds go up that something will happen that will truly test your riding skills, in an unexpected way.

I gather the best way to help prevent this type of crash is to simply practice over and over stopping the bike from different speeds in a paved, vacant space, to learn how the brakes feel up to (and including) a lock-up. While practicing, if the front brakes lock, release them immediately. If the rear brakes lock (while braking in a staight line), keep them locked--this avoids a "high side" crash, which is even worse.

Note that in a "panic" situation you will only do correctly what you have practiced. If you have not practiced correct techniques, then you only have pure chance working in your favor.

Hope all this helps.....:smiley_th
 

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glad to hear your mostly allright tough luck on the scoot and the ole ankel...

on a side note its better to brake the brake then the shift lever... (not that u really have a choice on which way the bike is gonna go...

Good heads up for the new riders listen because there are 2 types of riders out there ones that have been down and ones that are goin down...
Be comfortable be safe but more importantly never loose the fear and respect required to keep the bike vertical ... i as many others can probably agree with .. The moment u lose fear and become comfortable is the most dangerouse moment of your learning curve...

Get better soon and get that lil lady back road ready...

U said bent fork.... I know when this happended to me the tripple tree was just tristed... (kinda like an old bmx bike grabbed the front wheel and twisted it back strait... ) just my .02 cents
 

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..........I gather the best way to help prevent this type of crash is to simply practice over and over stopping the bike from different speeds in a paved, vacant space, to learn how the brakes feel up to (and including) a lock-up. While practicing, if the front brakes lock, release them immediately. If the rear brakes lock (while braking in a staight line), keep them locked--this avoids a "high side" crash, which is even worse.


Just a point here...you can lock the rear brakes and release them...as long as the bike is still traveling in a straight line. The circumstance hawk here is talking about is locking the rear ...and having the rear slide out. Once the rear breaks off the forwad path more than a few inches, releasing the brake can result in a high side. but as long as the bike is still going straight, it likely will not.

It is ALWAYS important to not panic brake with the bike leaned over...even a little. Straighten up the bike first then brake hard. This is the reason one needs to always have an "out" as they ride.

KM
 

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Glad to hear you are not hurt any worse than you are. I hope you and the bike are back on the road before this riding season are history.

X2 to theuahawk and KM about learning to brake properly. Put on your best crash gear and go to a paved, empty parking lot or back road. Starting at 18-20 mph practice using your front brake to the maximum, (about 85% of the effort on the lever it takes to cause a skid). The more you practice the easier it become to feel and hear that point of maximum braking just before you start to skid.

Then practice adding use of the rear brake to tranfer weight to the front tire quicker, but don`t skid it either. The centrifugal force generated by the mass of the spinning rear tire gives the bike about 80% of its stability. If it stops rotating, it takes about one second for your bike to become as hard to balance as if you are standing still. From 18-20 mph you will be stopped, or close to it in one second. If you are traveling much faster you will go down and scrape crash gear or skin, your choice.

Get David Hough`s book, "Proficient Motorcycling" and read it. He explains in more detail what I have tried to here. I believe that reading and applying his suggestions can literally save your live.
 

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Glad things didn't turn out worse! Wishing for a speedy recovery!

ditto on the advice. Practice, Practice, Practice! In the advanced MSF course they stress the importance of straightening up before braking hard in a curve. Always have your out planned, straighten up out of the turn and brake hard using both the rear and front brakes. This is really something that you should practice. A big empty parking lot is a good place to exercise this skill. It's so important to always be thinking in the saddle, and keep your head on a swivel!

Heal up quickly!
 

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Hey Hawk --

This is very valuable!! Many thanx for sharing and I hope you recover quickly! It could've been far worse. :beerchug:

Mainly for the benefit of those who are new (or relatively new) to riding, I thought I would share how I crashed my bike last Tuesday afternoon.

Exiting an interstate at rush hour, I came down the off ramp and was about to merge onto the adjacent (underpass) road in a right turn, when a lady in a car pulled out to my left front.

Although she was (in truth) not too close for comfort, I apparently grabbed too much front brake, locking them up.

On our bike (or any bike without ABS), if the front brakes are locked up at a decent (or greater) speed, and the front wheel is at any real angle away from straight ahead, the bike will slide out from under you, resulting in a "low side" crash.....:wow:

Currently, I'm recovering from some road rash on both forearms, and a sprained (very swollen, with different shades of black and blue) right ankle. Other than that, I'm ok.

The bike, however, is a different story.

The damaged parts that kept the bike from being rideable have been replaced, thanks to a local friend who offered some spare parts of his (a rear brake pedal, and a right side foot peg). The right saddlebag will need to be replaced, and also the front fender. The worst news for the bike--this crash bent the front right fork.

Anyway, I hope the above helps others avoid the same. It can be very easy (in certain circumstances) to grab too much front brake too fast. If you do, you will go down.

The other lesson to this story is: dress for the crash--not the ride. As a newbie or a rider, you may think, "bad things only happen to others." But the simple truth is, each time you go out for a ride, the odds go up that something will happen that will truly test your riding skills, in an unexpected way.

I gather the best way to help prevent this type of crash is to simply practice over and over stopping the bike from different speeds in a paved, vacant space, to learn how the brakes feel up to (and including) a lock-up. While practicing, if the front brakes lock, release them immediately. If the rear brakes lock (while braking in a staight line), keep them locked--this avoids a "high side" crash, which is even worse.

Note that in a "panic" situation you will only do correctly what you have practiced. If you have not practiced correct techniques, then you only have pure chance working in your favor.

Hope all this helps.....:smiley_th
 

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Here is a link to the msgroup safety tips on braking, that I couldn`t bring up yesterday.
http://www.msgroup.org/Articles.aspx?Cat=2
Hey Hoss --

Thanx for the link. I checked it out and need some clarification on one of the tips just to be sure that I understand. I copied a portion of the tip below in blue

1. To engage the clutch one pulls in (squeezes) the clutch lever.

2. To disengage the clutch one releases the clutch lever.

Is this correct? :confused:

If so, it makes sense to use the engine to do some of the braking, which is what I typically do for normal routine stopping.

What do you Vulcaneers think about this tip? :beerchug:


It is my opinion that downshifting while braking CAN be safely done during any normal gradual stopping maneuver but should NOT be done in an emergency stop effort. The MSF training is misdirected and counter-productive to the extent that it fails to differentiate between those kinds of maneuvers and it leads to longer stopping distance and greater time to stop during an emergency situation.

Studies have convincingly shown that in order to stop in the shortest possible distance and the shortest possible time you must disengage the clutch fully at the time you begin to brake.


You see that the greatest deceleration rate, fstest time and shortest distance all were the result of fully disengaging the clutch lever at the start of an emergency stop effort.

Get into the habit of downshifting AFTER YOU HAVE COME TO A COMPLETE STOP
.
 

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Hey Hoss --

Thanx for the link. I checked it out and need some clarification on one of the tips just to be sure that I understand. I copied a portion of the tip below in blue

1. To engage the clutch one pulls in (squeezes) the clutch lever.

2. To disengage the clutch one releases the clutch lever.

Is this correct? :confused:

If so, it makes sense to use the engine to do some of the braking, which is what I typically do for normal routine stopping.

What do you Vulcaneers think about this tip? :beerchug:


It is my opinion that downshifting while braking CAN be safely done during any normal gradual stopping maneuver but should NOT be done in an emergency stop effort. The MSF training is misdirected and counter-productive to the extent that it fails to differentiate between those kinds of maneuvers and it leads to longer stopping distance and greater time to stop during an emergency situation.

Studies have convincingly shown that in order to stop in the shortest possible distance and the shortest possible time you must disengage the clutch fully at the time you begin to brake.


You see that the greatest deceleration rate, fstest time and shortest distance all were the result of fully disengaging the clutch lever at the start of an emergency stop effort.

Get into the habit of downshifting AFTER YOU HAVE COME TO A COMPLETE STOP
.
This discussion of the clutch can become confusing to talk or write about, as you indicate above.

This is because when you pull in (or engage with your hand) the clutch lever, the CLUTCH ITSELF IS DISINGAGED, ie. the clutch friction and pressure plates are not touching and the engine power is not transmitted to the drive train.

Similarly when you release the clutch lever, your hand becomes disengaged from the lever, but THE CLUTCH PLATES THEMSELVES TOUCH OR BECOME ENGAGED and transmit power to the transmission and on through the drive train components to the rear tire and the bike begins to move.

Therefore in the bold, blue, underlined sentence, the reference to disengaging the clutch when you begin to brake in order to stop in the shortest possible time and distance, means to pull in the clutch lever and separate or DISENGAGE the clutch plates.

If you read Mr. Davis`s statement over again with this understanding, it makes sense, excxept for the second to last sentence where he confuses the issue again with a reference to the clutch lever instead of the clutch itself. If you can, train you mind to "see" what the clutch plates are doing, instead of thinking of "engagement" in terms of what your hand is doing.

This may be the easiest way for someone new to riding to REGAIN CONTROL of their bike, if it starts to runaway with them. Just PULL BACK BOTH LEVERS!! Fine motorskills all but disappear in times of stress or danger. Large motor skills, like squeezing the levers, are what remain. With the clutch lever pulled back the bike can`t run away. And with the brake lever pulled back, it can not roll away, forward or back.

Does this explanation help FlaRider? Or have I just thickened the fog?

Remember in making normal stops you can gear down as you slow. It is only in emergency situations, where all your attention is needed to slow and stop in the shortest time and distance, that when stopped you gear down to first and do a rapid shoulder check to assess your need to move out of another dangers path.
 

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Down-shift during emergency braking?

Hey Hoss --

I have been confused about the lever/clutch engage/disengage issue for a long time. Your explanation is very helpful! :smiley_th

Today, I experimented doing a quick stop from about 40 mph without downshifting. I was in either 4th or 5th gear and I could NOT prevent my left foot from very rapidly and automatically downshifting all the way to 1st!!!! Talk about WEIRD!? :wow: It's as if the left foot has a mind of its own--too many years of practicing and muscle memorization of the MSF method. I guess it's true that in an emergency we will resort to what we practice.

After so many years I think in my case it might be counter productive, so I'm not going to change my technique. The downshift is so automatic that I don't think I'm losing much if anything.

Many thanx for the link and the detailed explanation, Hoss! :beerchug:

This discussion of the clutch can become confusing to talk or write about, as you indicate above.

This is because when you pull in (or engage with your hand) the clutch lever, the CLUTCH ITSELF IS DISINGAGED, ie. the clutch friction and pressure plates are not touching and the engine power is not transmitted to the drive train.

Similarly when you release the clutch lever, your hand becomes disengaged from the lever, but THE CLUTCH PLATES THEMSELVES TOUCH OR BECOME ENGAGED and transmit power to the transmission and on through the drive train components to the rear tire and the bike begins to move.

Therefore in the bold, blue, underlined sentence, the reference to disengaging the clutch when you begin to brake in order to stop in the shortest possible time and distance, means to pull in the clutch lever and separate or DISENGAGE the clutch plates.

If you read Mr. Davis`s statement over again with this understanding, it makes sense, excxept for the second to last sentence where he confuses the issue again with a reference to the clutch lever instead of the clutch itself. If you can, train you mind to "see" what the clutch plates are doing, instead of thinking of "engagement" in terms of what your hand is doing.

This may be the easiest way for someone new to riding to REGAIN CONTROL of their bike, if it starts to runaway with them. Just PULL BACK BOTH LEVERS!! Fine motorskills all but disappear in times of stress or danger. Large motor skills, like squeezing the levers, are what remain. With the clutch lever pulled back the bike can`t run away. And with the brake lever pulled back, it can not roll away, forward or back.

Does this explanation help FlaRider? Or have I just thickened the fog?

Remember in making normal stops you can gear down as you slow. It is only in emergency situations, where all your attention is needed to slow and stop in the shortest time and distance, that when stopped you gear down to first and do a rapid shoulder check to assess your need to move out of another dangers path.
 

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I have been confused about the lever/clutch engage/disengage issue for a long time. Your explanation is very helpful! :smiley_th

Today, I experimented doing a quick stop from about 40 mph without downshifting. I was in either 4th or 5th gear and I could NOT prevent my left foot from very rapidly and automatically downshifting all the way to 1st!!!! Talk about WEIRD!? :wow: :


There is nothing wrong with using your left foot to shift down to 1st in a panic stop....just as long as you keep the clutch lever in the whole time. Alot depends on the pucker factor of the moment , I would find it hard to believe when confronted with a true "panic" situation, your foot would be clicking down the shifter when there are more important issues at hand.

The author in the link was trying to impress that you can downshift to slow the bike normally, which means letting the clutch lever back out for each gear in succession ...allowing "engine braking" to aide in slowing the bike down. But in a "panic stop" you should not be concerned with shifting down at all, but use the brakes...and be holding in the clutch lever all the while to prevent the motor from stalling once you do come to a stop...
and to address another problem observed in a panic stop......some folks have been known to grab the brakes but not shut down the throttle...so if the bike was in any gear with the clutch lever out it would work against the brakes. increasing stopping distance.

I normally in most instances either shift down feeding the clutch lever in and out for each gear, or simply hold it in all the way to the stop, still shifting down with my foot.

But when a the car in front of me suddenly locks up his brakes and I find that it took me a moment more than it should have to notice this, I need to STOP NOW or eat pavement, I find I brake hard and do not split my concentration on shifting down with my foot as I try using the brakes to their ultimate threshold.

There is huge difference in practicing a " quick stop from about 40 mph without downshifting" to actualy being in a "panic" situation. If you find that in the later you have in fact shifted down to 1st, there is nothing wrong there, it is actualy advisable if you can keep your cool to in a real situation to do that, as you might immeadiately after stopping find you need to move quick to avoid something still moving in your direction. But in most cases of real "panic stops" that the rider managed to keep the bike up without overbraking and dumping it....it was found that they did not shift down to 1st but were still in the gear they were in the moment the "panic braking" began.

To avoid uneccessary complication, it is suggested that folks simply learn to pull in the clutch lever and keep it there as they begin braking when practicing panic stops. This takes the motor out of the picture and forces you to learn the exact limits of the brakes. Hopefully if done enough times, when a real situation unfolds, your brain will remember those limits and wil prevent you from going past them.

The biggest secret in all this really is to learn not to "panic" in a panic stop... even with a few hours of practice on braking, some folks still "freak out" pretty quick when confronted with imminent danger, and their bodies get charged with releases of adreniline , which can make them crush brake levers alot more fiercely than they think they are.

Because of this, it is even more imperative to concentrate on the fewest actions one can...applying the front brake and the rear brake. No one cares if the clutch lever is pulled in so hard it leaves an impression in the grip,..but adding the movement of snicking down the foot shifter 3-4 times adds too much to the mix, as tests have shown that in adreniline charged panic, the fewer actions you get your body to perform the better. Even reports of "tunnel vision" occour as the eyes basicly shut down periphial movements and objects to the brain.

And this is why I have been an advocate of ABS brakes for motorcycles, it takes that last bit of uncertanty out of the equation and makes it impossible for a panic riddled rider charged up on adreniline to lock their brakes.........


KM
 

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There is nothing wrong with using your left foot to shift down to 1st in a panic stop....just as long as you keep the clutch lever in the whole time. Alot depends on the pucker factor of the moment , I would find it hard to believe when confronted with a true "panic" situation, your foot would be clicking down the shifter when there are more important issues at hand.

The author in the link was trying to impress that you can downshift to slow the bike normally, which means letting the clutch lever back out for each gear in succession ...allowing "engine braking" to aide in slowing the bike down. But in a "panic stop" you should not be concerned with shifting down at all, but use the brakes...and be holding in the clutch lever all the while to prevent the motor from stalling once you do come to a stop...
and to address another problem observed in a panic stop......some folks have been known to grab the brakes but not shut down the throttle...so if the bike was in any gear with the clutch lever out it would work against the brakes. increasing stopping distance.

I normally in most instances either shift down feeding the clutch lever in and out for each gear, or simply hold it in all the way to the stop, still shifting down with my foot.

But when a the car in front of me suddenly locks up his brakes and I find that it took me a moment more than it should have to notice this, I need to STOP NOW or eat pavement, I find I brake hard and do not split my concentration on shifting down with my foot as I try using the brakes to their ultimate threshold.

There is huge difference in practicing a " quick stop from about 40 mph without downshifting" to actualy being in a "panic" situation. If you find that in the later you have in fact shifted down to 1st, there is nothing wrong there, it is actualy advisable if you can keep your cool to in a real situation to do that, as you might immeadiately after stopping find you need to move quick to avoid something still moving in your direction. But in most cases of real "panic stops" that the rider managed to keep the bike up without overbraking and dumping it....it was found that they did not shift down to 1st but were still in the gear they were in the moment the "panic braking" began.

To avoid uneccessary complication, it is suggested that folks simply learn to pull in the clutch lever and keep it there as they begin braking when practicing panic stops. This takes the motor out of the picture and forces you to learn the exact limits of the brakes. Hopefully if done enough times, when a real situation unfolds, your brain will remember those limits and wil prevent you from going past them.
The biggest secret in all this really is to learn not to "panic" in a panic stop... even with a few hours of practice on braking, some folks still "freak out" pretty quick when confronted with imminent danger, and their bodies get charged with releases of adreniline , which can make them crush brake levers alot more fiercely than they think they are.

Because of this, it is even more imperative to concentrate on the fewest actions one can...applying the front brake and the rear brake. No one cares if the clutch lever is pulled in so hard it leaves an impression in the grip,..but adding the movement of snicking down the foot shifter 3-4 times adds too much to the mix, as tests have shown that in adreniline charged panic, the fewer actions you get your body to perform the better. Even reports of "tunnel vision" occour as the eyes basicly shut down periphial movements and objects to the brain.

And this is why I have been an advocate of ABS brakes for motorcycles, it takes that last bit of uncertanty out of the equation and makes it impossible for a panic riddled rider charged up on adreniline to lock their brakes.........

KM
KM --

Excellent post! I read it over several times to gleam as much as possible.

"Hopefully if done enough times, when a real situation unfolds, your brain will remember those limits and wil prevent you from going past them."

Unfortunately, in spite of our best efforts some folks may still "panic" during a panic stop. So, practice is one of the few things under our control and if done correctly and consistently may help us not to 'over-brake.'

I fully agree concur about the benefits of ABS for bikes. Some years ago I considered buying a Honda ST1100 because ABS was offered as an option. However, at the time ABS was somewhat new and there was talk that the systems had 'bugs.'

What is the current status of ABS? Is it reliable? What bikes are offered with ABS -- cruisers, sport bikes, etc?

Many thanx for your detailed response KM! :beerchug:
 

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What is the current status of ABS? Is it reliable? What bikes are offered with ABS -- cruisers, sport bikes, etc?

There are quite a few bike offering it and the list is growing. My 2006 FJR (and all FJR's till present) have ABS as standard equipment...I think the Kawasaki C14 has it as an option, as does the Honda ST and BMW...

There are a few crusiers that have it as an option as well, I know the new Voyager has an ABS option , but I do not have a list , nor could I find one of bikes available with ABS.

Your best recourse is to ask your dealer.


As for reliable, yes, there were a few issues early on, nothing that made the brakes unreliable, just a bit qurky , but the ABS systems available today are very good to spooky/amazing. (saw a video of a bike riding across a frozen lake where the rider STOOD on the rear brake and the bike just came to a stop)


I guess I should consider myself lucky that I have never had to put the system to the test on my bike .... but I have read many reports on owners saying how the ABS on their bikes saved their ass.

I am so impressed with those reports and by the independant testing that I have said many times I will never own a bike that does not have ABS.

Hopefully as more folks start asking for it, more bike models will offer it.

KM
 

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ABS vs Traditional Moto Braking?

There are quite a few bike offering it and the list is growing. My 2006 FJR (and all FJR's till present) have ABS as standard equipment...I think the Kawasaki C14 has it as an option, as does the Honda ST and BMW...

There are a few crusiers that have it as an option as well, I know the new Voyager has an ABS option , but I do not have a list , nor could I find one of bikes available with ABS.

Your best recourse is to ask your dealer.


As for reliable, yes, there were a few issues early on, nothing that made the brakes unreliable, just a bit qurky , but the ABS systems available today are very good to spooky/amazing. (saw a video of a bike riding across a frozen lake where the rider STOOD on the rear brake and the bike just came to a stop)


I guess I should consider myself lucky that I have never had to put the system to the test on my bike .... but I have read many reports on owners saying how the ABS on their bikes saved their ass.

I am so impressed with those reports and by the independant testing that I have said many times I will never own a bike that does not have ABS.

Hopefully as more folks start asking for it, more bike models will offer it.

KM

Hey KM --

Shucks, you would think that after all these years ABS would just about be standard equipment on ALL bikes!! Bikes are balanced (literally) on just two wheels instead of four like cages. It's hard to believe the industry has been so unresponsive. :loser1: It's a HUGE safety issue!!!!!!!!!!!

In addition to preventing locking up and dumping the bake, is the ABS more effective than bikes with non-ABS? That is, are your panic braking distances much shorter with your JFR than with other bikes such as the VN750?

Your response was very helpful!

Thanx! :beerchug:
 

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If you're an expert rider under ideal track conditions you can beat the ABS by a small margin. If you're anyone else, or even if you're an expert on wet pavement, the ABS will win.
 

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That is, are your panic braking distances much shorter with your JFR than with other bikes such as the VN750?Thanx! :beerchug:
Looking forward to KM's response. IN THEORY, stopping distances should be less with ABS systems because they prevent locking up and skidding/sliding the tire. Rolling friction is greater than sliding friction, so the bike stops quicker with the wheels rolling (and the brakes applied) than when they are skidding. However, if the rider approaches maximum braking effort without reaching the point where the tires slide, he will stop just as quick without ABS. Doing that in a panic situation is the tricky part!

Probably the combined weight of the bike and rider and each bike's braking system and tires would have a lot to do with stopping distance. No way a loaded semi is gonna stop in the same distance as a small car! Or my truck is gonna stop in the same distance it does when empty as when pulling a loaded trailer.
 

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In addition to preventing locking up and dumping the bake, is the ABS more effective than bikes with non-ABS? That is, are your panic braking distances much shorter with your JFR than with other bikes such as the VN750?

In short, yes.
Read this:
http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html


and this:

http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceedings/a-Green-ComparisonofStoppingDistance.pdf


Bascily it has been seen that an "expert" rider , like a professional racer, can get a non abs bike to stop in a shorter distance........on a clean, dry road. But add any varible in there like gravel, water, oil spots, or just damp paint, the coin gets flipped.

I think the first study showed that a novice rider was able to stop his ABS equiped bike in almost half the distance on a wet surface than the "expert" rider stopping his non abs bike.

The second link is a newer study, and included combined brake systems too.. (and I again should point out that ABS systems are alot better now)

The overall figure seems to show that using both brakes...an ABS equiped bike will beat a non abs bike in stopping distances by approx 10%.

Keep in mind none of these tests really examined "real" panic stops, where the riders were suddenly terrified ...lol ... but they do give some usefull numbers to consider.

Heres a video showing the difference between two bikes , one with ABS , and the same model without abs:
http://blog.motorcycleparts-accessories-andmore.com/7118/video-honda-fireblade-abs-v-non-abs/

KM
 

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Very informative post, KM. The video and first study were particularly good. The government study was probably as well designed as the first, but the "scientific" writing made my eyes glaze over.
 

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Very informative post, KM. The video and first study were particularly good. The government study was probably as well designed as the first, but the "scientific" writing made my eyes glaze over.
The only reason I included the second report was because it is more recent. My problem with the study was the use of meters instread of feet, and kph instead of mph...which being a born and raised american gives me no frame of reference. You say something like "the ABS bike stopped over a hundred feet shorter" I can wrap my head around that alot easier... ;)


The BMW study also took in to consideration rider skill levels, which I think are important to see , and to show that the technology is of great benifit to any rider , from beginers to those with alot of experiance.

The reason many makers do not install ABS across their model line is mostly price...ABS systems usually add around $1000 to the price of a model, and incorperating it smoothly into exsisting models takes some added expense. The sure fire way to increase its implementation is by buyer demand...if more and more folks start asking for it , the more you will begin to see it.

As for the cost to the consumer, the increase in price is offset by lower insurance costs...I pay less insurance on my bike because it has ABS...it may take several years for one to break even there...but I think the fact that the system could save your life one day makes the investment worthwhile.

Another new technology simular to ABS is beiing used by Ducati on their race bikes...Traction Control. This uses the same type of sensors ABS uses, but instead of controlling wheel rotation under braking, the system controls wheel rotation under accelleration...which means when dialed in correctly, you can't spin your tire out accellerating out of turn....a problem faced with anybike, but especialy those with alot of horsepower.

I remember the first Suzuki GS1100's had a issue that the bike made so much power and the throttle was so touchy, that if you hit a bump going through a turn and your hand gave the throttle the slightest turn, the rear wheel would break loose and toss you down.

Suzuki fixed the problem when they switched to EFI , but given the horsepower race in the Super Sportbike catagory, I don't think it will be too long before Ducati's breakthrough technology that they developed just for their race bike will show up on the street.

KM
 

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ABS, CBS, Traction Control--Oh My!

The only reason I included the second report was because it is more recent. My problem with the study was the use of meters instread of feet, and kph instead of mph...which being a born and raised american gives me no frame of reference. You say something like "the ABS bike stopped over a hundred feet shorter" I can wrap my head around that alot easier... ;)


The BMW study also took in to consideration rider skill levels, which I think are important to see , and to show that the technology is of great benifit to any rider , from beginers to those with alot of experiance.

The reason many makers do not install ABS across their model line is mostly price...ABS systems usually add around $1000 to the price of a model, and incorperating it smoothly into exsisting models takes some added expense. The sure fire way to increase its implementation is by buyer demand...if more and more folks start asking for it , the more you will begin to see it.

As for the cost to the consumer, the increase in price is offset by lower insurance costs...I pay less insurance on my bike because it has ABS...it may take several years for one to break even there...but I think the fact that the system could save your life one day makes the investment worthwhile.

Another new technology simular to ABS is beiing used by Ducati on their race bikes...Traction Control. This uses the same type of sensors ABS uses, but instead of controlling wheel rotation under braking, the system controls wheel rotation under accelleration...which means when dialed in correctly, you can't spin your tire out accellerating out of turn....a problem faced with anybike, but especialy those with alot of horsepower.

I remember the first Suzuki GS1100's had a issue that the bike made so much power and the throttle was so touchy, that if you hit a bump going through a turn and your hand gave the throttle the slightest turn, the rear wheel would break loose and toss you down.

Suzuki fixed the problem when they switched to EFI , but given the horsepower race in the Super Sportbike catagory, I don't think it will be too long before Ducati's breakthrough technology that they developed just for their race bike will show up on the street.

KM
Hey KM --

Good stuff! I now have a better understanding of ABS. The video on damp pavement very convincingly demonstrates the benefits! I fully concur with the study's conclusion:

"In the end, everyone could hardly believe just how good ABS really is. It's certainly not a sales gimmick. This is clearly the biggest advance in braking safety since the advent of the disc brake. Our group of testers had just one complaint: Why is ABS not available on more motorcycles?"

I've owned two bikes (Goldwing and VFR) with CBS where the front and rear brakes were linked. I think Honda may have called it Integrated Braking? If you applied only the rear brake the front brakes were also activited and vice versa but to a lesser degree. Although not ABS, these brakes were the absolute best of any bike I've ridden. During the MSF courses it was impossible to make the rear wheel slide for the required exercise so these types of bikes were excused from the exercise.

As an aside, I did AutoCross with my '99 Corvette equipped with a very sophisticated traction control system that made it almost impossible to lose control. However, during AutoCross competition I had to remember to turn off the system prior to each run or it would greatly increase my lap times. With the system activated during very aggressive driving such as on the track the car would take on a "Christine" personality with a mind of its own. Weird!

KM, many thanx for providing the info and links! :beerchug:
 
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