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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all,

Well, a few weeks ago my old hoss started making a pretty irritating squealing noise from the right side engine cover. Through process of elimination, determined it was a water pump problem.

Ordered some seals and parts, and tore into it today. Bad news - I was hoping I had a "wobbly" impeller causing it - turns out that it seems that I have an excessive amount of thrust in the shaft and it's putting the impeller into the engine cover *sigh*

From what I can tell in the shop manual, looks like this means a full tear-down into the lower housing (unless anyone knows a way I can do it short of that).

Although I do have a pretty solid mechanical background, I haven't worked with engines larger than lawnmowers lol - so looking for a bit of advice:

1. Is it really worth it? Ok, I know it probably is, but I need some reassurance.

2. Is it worth it for me to do it? Or are there any good leads on somewhere that I could get a rebuilt at a decent price? My local Kawi shop is telling me "anywhere between $500 and $4000" for them to rebuild it...

3. Any guidance on what parts (other than the obvious - bearings, seals, gaskets, etc) I should plan on replacing, if I am to do it? ANyone know of any rebuild kits/gasket kits, or do I have to order everything individually? So far having no luck tracking any kits down...

4. Any good sources for parts other than my local kawi dealer?

5. Any general words of wisdom?

I prostrate myself before the great gods of motorcycle mechanics seeking knowledge lol. Seriously - any thoughts/suggestions/insights/etc would be more appreciated than I could ever express...
 

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Hey HooverRMK,

I'm going through the engine rebuild at the moment.

1. If your comfortable mechanically it's probably worth it.

I'm documenting the process in this thread.
Engine Rebuild Videos

2. It depends on what your time is worth to you.

3. No kit's available. A manual will give you a good idea what will need to be replaced. That video thread will also answer some of those questions. It will depend on the miles on the engine and it's past maintenance.

The rubber dampers are usually something that should be replaced while the engine is apart.

4. BikeBandit.com and CheapCycleParts.com are the ones I've been using.

5. Take your time.
Diligently bag and tag all the parts you remove.
Make a list of what need to be replaced as you go.
It's a good idea to follow a manual and mark down the corresponding page numbers with the parts you take off.
Make sure any parts you are re-using are within their service limits.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Hi Roach,

Thanks for the insights and info! I'm disappointed that I won't be finding any kits anywhere, but at least I can quit spinning my wheels looking for them...

I think I've actually seen some of your videos on YouTube - I looked at the one about the lower end/pump shaft stuff when I was trying to figure out where the problem was coming form initially.

2 follow-up questions for you, if I may:

1. Based on the problem description and your experiences, would you concur with my assessment that I am looking at a full tear-down?

2. Based on your experiences with purchasing parts, can you give me a ballpark idea on cost, assuming that I'm not running into problems with excessive wear or anything requiring major parts replacement?

I'll definitely keep it bookmarked, and feel free to throw in any other words of wisdom you might encounter on here!
 

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Sorry I meant to mention the likely cause. It sounds like the circlip holding the impeller against the mechanical seal let go.

I think you'll have to tear the bottom end apart to fix it. But maybe someone knows a way around this?

I've yet to tally my total cost. I should do that soon as many people have asked. I'd guess around $500.00. A significant portion of that would be shipping costs to Canada.
 

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I just reviewed my BikeBandit orders and my total is closer to the $700 mark. But that includes parts for an ear shave, tax, duty, and shipping.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sorry I meant to mention the likely cause. It sounds like the circlip holding the impeller against the mechanical seal let go.

I think you'll have to tear the bottom end apart to fix it. But maybe someone knows a way around this?

I've yet to tally my total cost. I should do that soon as many people have asked. I'd guess around $500.00. A significant portion of that would be shipping costs to Canada.
Thanks for that!

So to clarify (and sorry to keep picking your brain)
The impeller/shaft/mechanical seal look to be good, and the impeller holds tight and firm to the shaft (no wobble) - but the shaft itself is thrusting a good 1/4 to 1/3"
 

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Hmmm

The water pump impeller shaft's circlip rests against the bearing. There should be a little bit of possible movement because the mechanical seal is spring loaded. But not enough that the impeller contacts the case.

If the circlip popped out of it's groove, you be able to pull the impeller shaft all the way out.

Maybe there's a way of slipping that clip back on it's groove without taking the engine apart.

Here's the video of me putting that clip on.
Installing Water Pump Impeller Shaft
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Roach,

I can't thank you enough for all this insight you're giving me. If you ever find yourself in my neck of the woods, beers and a good dinner are definitely on me!

To be honest, I didn't try really tugging on the shaft - but putting just a little bit of pull on it, it definitely stops.

From what I understand some play is to be expected - with your circlip in place, could you give me an idea of how much play you felt in that shaft? I'll warrant that it is likely a lot less than what I am feeling.
 

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would it be possible to take the micanical seal out and pull the shaft with it... reseat the clip and then put the whole thing back in?
 

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would it be possible to take the micanical seal out and pull the shaft with it... reseat the clip and then put the whole thing back in?
Nope, the impeller "head" is on one side of the case, the mechanical seal and the bearing. The clip slides onto the end of the shaft on the other side of the case wall. The clip is supposed to hold the smooth back of the impeller snug against the spring loaded seal, bearing and case wall. No way the shaft could slide through the hole with the clip pre-installed.

Take another boo at roach`s video clip. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_ib5k7Fa1Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=508s
 

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Thanks,

Where about is your neck of the woods?

The play would be only pushing on the impeller against the mech. seal. I'd say about an 1/8" but I'll have to check to be sure.

If there is play when pulling I'd say you have issues. Does the impeller pull away from the mech. seal all together? Maybe the bearing has gone bad?
 

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I can push the impeller in about a 1/16"
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yeah - I got way more play in the shaft than that...

Waiting for a call back from a local shop to see if he has any tricks up his sleeve short of doing the tear-down.

Thanks again for all your help.
 

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Tore mine down for exactly the same thing, have a similar background with small engines, follow Roach's advice, bag & tag, it's gonna be fun knowing your bike intimately. Something to consider, I'm saving a crap ton of money cutting my own gaskets from sheet material, $12 for all the paper gaskets you need. Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #15
G3, I was thinking about getting a sheet of gasket material and cutting them myself. Used to do that all the time in power plants. What kind and thickness are you using?

So you had the same problem as I am experiencing? What did you find it to be?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hmmm - I was wondering what you guys were talking about with the "ear shave" so I went and looked it up - pretty cool!

Is there any reason for this beyond aesthetics?
 

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Is there any reason for this beyond aesthetics?
More airflow = More fuel combustion = more Power!

You have to re-jet the carburetors to even out the fuel to air ratio.
 

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G3, I was thinking about getting a sheet of gasket material and cutting them myself. Used to do that all the time in power plants. What kind and thickness are you using?

So you had the same problem as I am experiencing? What did you find it to be?
I'm using what they had available at Napa, just auto grade paper roll, as for the impeller shaft, the circlip fell off at some point for the previous owner, found it in the bottom of the crank case, it looks like it was streched to far but who's to say...
 

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Just one thing to add here.. With a 93 model, if you are doing a tear down, it would be a real good time to replace the balancers so you don't end up grenading the left side a few miles down the road. The early 90's are getting to the point where these would start to crumble from age.
 

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Just one thing to add here.. With a 93 model, if you are doing a tear down, it would be a real good time to replace the balancers so you don't end up grenading the left side a few miles down the road. The early 90's are getting to the point where these would start to crumble from age.
This whole balancer dampner thing scares the bageebus out of me ... :wow:
Maybe I'm lookin' at a teardown this winter ... just for THAT?
 
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