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Thread: Crazy safe, a realistic perspective from a contrarian view Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-21-2016 12:17 AM
dungtuyet The one thing you can rely on as a certainty in any accident event is that instead of having the luxury of being a cop with a calculator measuring skid marks on the pavement, or an arm-chair quarterback watching a YouTube video is that it's YOU that are riding on your machine and you just happen to be human. During any such event, from the simple skidding on oil or ice to the outright head-on logging truck that just popped over the other side of the hill in your lane, you will only have time to react if you intend to survive. This is beyond the ability of decision. This is the simple facts that occur. Within those one or two seconds of control that you have, you will only do what you have habitually trained yourself to do, or you will rely on your natural instincts.
02-29-2016 08:14 PM
RoadHopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan2000 View Post
If you are not confident in your own skills I wonder why you would ride a motorcycle on public streets and not reserve your riding time to empty parking lots to practice your skills. Doesn't make much sense to ride with out the confidence that you could be safe yourself. SOunds more like a death wish.
An old quote:

It is impossible to learn what one thinks they already know.

Per a direct reply: I'd have to ride perhaps, oh, hmm... guessing at least 100 miles before i could find a parking lot that is empty enough for your description. I just happen to live a few blocks south of Koreatown proper here in L.A. Per the 2008 statistics, "42,611 people per square mile".

Per safe. . . what's "safe"?

That is exactly the attitude i am talking about. Thinking one is safe is the fastest way to ignore reality.

Maybe a picture will save a thousand words. . .

At the 1:12 mark is some footage taken that's about 4 city blocks from my home. It will show you a typical parking lot here. It will also show you what sort of environment I practice in ( on a bad day rather than a good day like i described above ) and what i consider worthwhile to practice for. If you want to practice for your own environment, that's all fine with me, and if you have big empty parking lots, as i have said before, that's great too. I prefer reality though, as i stated above. And tell me that you would be thinking about lane-splitting laws during any of that ( the bad day ) and i will eat my shorts.

Hope this clarifies.
02-29-2016 07:43 PM
Vulcan2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadHopper View Post
I completely comprehend where you are coming from. But being confident in my own skills is the very first thing that will get me killed.

( insert Dark Vader's voice here )

Luke, come to L.A.

If it were possible to describe this place, i would try.

If you are not confident in your own skills I wonder why you would ride a motorcycle on public streets and not reserve your riding time to empty parking lots to practice your skills. Doesn't make much sense to ride with out the confidence that you could be safe yourself. SOunds more like a death wish.
02-29-2016 07:39 PM
RoadHopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc2dgq View Post
I ALWAYS leave myself an escape route and am very much aware of my surroundings, I usually anticipate things that other drivers will do before they even think about it, so I constantly evaluate everything.
I have been riding over 20+ years and have yet to have an accident, so I am confident in my abilities, and I stay with in them. I must be doing something right all these years.
And as Doc said....drive defensively as if everyone else is trying to kill you.....because in recent years with cell phones and road rage, that is very much true.
I completely comprehend where you are coming from. But being confident in my own skills is the very first thing that will get me killed.

( insert Dark Vader's voice here )

Luke, come to L.A.

If it were possible to describe this place, i would try.

02-29-2016 07:17 PM
kc2dgq
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadHopper View Post
According to the studies done by UC Berkley, that is the most likely reason for accidents, i.e. road rage. They don't come right out and say it that way, but they circle around it with the facts for the reader to add two plus two. Upwards of 35% of some 5000+ people they surveyed thought that lane splitting was illegal.

On the other hand, there are plenty of 4-wheel hot-rod Lexus/BMW/etc around that will cut you off as if they are lane splitting anyways. Happens all of the time and riding with that in mind rather than it being a surprise or getting angry about it is the habit forming. I let slower people get in front of me all the time, wave them into the lane in their mirrors, etc. too. It all depends on the circumstances and being part of the "crowd" instead of in the "lanes" is practice for exactly those occasions.

But being at the head at the light is much safer all things considered. The dangerous thing about driving is the other drivers and putting them behind you in 3 seconds gets one out of that situation. The other thing about doing that, i.e. getting to 40 or 45 speed limit ahead of the herd, is that exactly as you surmised, some idiot will think you are racing him or have his Lexus financial ego bruised, or whatever the case, and sure enough they will eventually speed right on by doing about 60 mph just perfect in time to give the cop up ahead something to do, you know?
I ALWAYS leave myself an escape route and am very much aware of my surroundings, I usually anticipate things that other drivers will do before they even think about it, so I constantly evaluate everything.
I have been riding over 20+ years and have yet to have an accident, so I am confident in my abilities, and I stay with in them. I must be doing something right all these years.
And as Doc said....drive defensively as if everyone else is trying to kill you.....because in recent years with cell phones and road rage, that is very much true.
02-29-2016 06:23 PM
RoadHopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc2dgq View Post
I am with KM on his points. I practice hard stopping and slow turning in parking lots often.

As for "The best eyesight forward is between the cars, and at every single stop light i will roll between them anyways all the way up to the front unless the light turns green, then merging wherever i am is the rule."
although it is legal, I never split lanes or ride through bumper to bumper traffic. I have seen first hand how cagers will rage and purposely try to "teach you a lesson" for passing them in a manner that they see as "cheating" while they are furious and agitated because they are trapped.
According to the studies done by UC Berkley, that is the most likely reason for accidents, i.e. road rage. They don't come right out and say it that way, but they circle around it with the facts for the reader to add two plus two. Upwards of 35% of some 5000+ people they surveyed thought that lane splitting was illegal.

On the other hand, there are plenty of 4-wheel hot-rod Lexus/BMW/etc around that will cut you off as if they are lane splitting anyways. Happens all of the time and riding with that in mind rather than it being a surprise or getting angry about it is the habit forming. I let slower people get in front of me all the time, wave them into the lane in their mirrors, etc. too. It all depends on the circumstances and being part of the "crowd" instead of in the "lanes" is practice for exactly those occasions.

But being at the head at the light is much safer all things considered. The dangerous thing about driving is the other drivers and putting them behind you in 3 seconds gets one out of that situation. The other thing about doing that, i.e. getting to 40 or 45 speed limit ahead of the herd, is that exactly as you surmised, some idiot will think you are racing him or have his Lexus financial ego bruised, or whatever the case, and sure enough they will eventually speed right on by doing about 60 mph just perfect in time to give the cop up ahead something to do, you know?
02-29-2016 06:08 PM
RoadHopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifemaker View Post
Being seen is important. .
I did a 40 mile tour around Griffith Park this morning. This is a typical day around here. During my trip i was pulled over by a cop up in Glendale, he asked me if i had any weapons and couldn't care less about anything else. Had a truck nearly run into my tail ( the light was red )... he slammed on his brakes and i heard them coming. I was damned glad i was in the center nearly between the lanes. He could have skid-passed me on the left had he needed to ( light red or not ). I remembered our discussion this morning ( lol ). But the highlight of my morning was going about 25 to 30 on at least a 25 degree downhill grade with a line of cars behind me and in front and turns that turned into turns the other way before the turns even stopped turning. Lights along the way too ( Laurel Canyon Road ) going over the Santa Monica Range would be best done on a 125cc trials bike, seriously. And then 5 minutes later i am in Hollywood with traffic backed up on Sunset Blvd, construction crews doing their thing, and this is during the Non-Peak hours; i.e. not the rush hour ( which is a complete oxymoron ). Being seen is important, but habits are more important.

Take a virtual tour, head south

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifemaker View Post
Have you taken the MSF rider course? We suggest everyone take it, even those that have years of experience.
They want upwards of US$300 for that around here.

Like i said, if you have a parking lot to practice in that's great! Not sure you get the drift about parking lots here though, that's the dead last place anyone is going to see you, ( given the security guards don't run you off and the pedestrians are all in the store, and nobody wants to back out of their spot i guess ). And how are you going to be going 40+ mph in a parking lot? I realize you mean an empty one. I've seen those before, but not around here. Seriously speaking if you have those kinds of places for free, that's great, but doing 40mph in a parking lot anywhere around here is the least safest idea i have ever heard and a quick way to get arrested. I'll stick to my habits training and keep in mind i was very clear to state this is not advice for new riders, but seriously? Those habits ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. I can only stress that so much and am leaving out all of my credentials for knowing why ( grins ).
02-29-2016 03:29 PM
kc2dgq I am with KM on his points. I practice hard stopping and slow turning in parking lots often.

As for "The best eyesight forward is between the cars, and at every single stop light i will roll between them anyways all the way up to the front unless the light turns green, then merging wherever i am is the rule."
although it is legal, I never split lanes or ride through bumper to bumper traffic. I have seen first hand how cagers will rage and purposely try to "teach you a lesson" for passing them in a manner that they see as "cheating" while they are furious and agitated because they are trapped.
02-29-2016 03:16 PM
Knifemaker Being seen is important.

However what works for you in LA may not work for others in other places. I like seeing discussions here on safety, but I will not let anyone post "tips" that are or could be dangerous to other riders...especially new riders who visit our pages.

Using yellow lights as a test bed for braking practice is not an advisable thing to teach to new riders.

Have you taken the MSF rider course? We suggest everyone take it, even those that have years of experience.
02-29-2016 01:18 PM
RoadHopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifemaker View Post

"Yellow lights give one an opportunity to PRACTICE hard stopping"....

And getting rear ended by the car behind you that didn't think you were going to stop?

Do your breaking practice in parking lots and empty roads.
Totally respect and appreciate where you are coming from. Having an empty road or parking lot must be nice. I prefer the real thing though. Center lines "here" for the most part are the most under utilized areas of the road. The pot holes are usually in the right hand lane and tend to be just to the left of the center of the lane ( left side car tracks ). The sewer lids tend to be center of the right lane. Dips and grooves at intersections are at about 10% of them ( just need to know which ones by experience ). The best eyesight forward is between the cars, and at every single stop light i will roll between them anyways all the way up to the front unless the light turns green, then merging wherever i am is the rule. I'd compare it to riding horseback in the middle of a herd of cows, but i've never actually been on a horse before. Getting accustomed to working with the other drivers here is necessary, legal, and even the cops do it ( the biker cops on their BMWs ). Doing things that make THEM aware of ME is just as important as me being aware of them. This is not for the feint of heart or for new riders though, sort of... It's a practice that needs to be adopted gradually just like anything else. I would not suggest that a new rider do anything close to what i do, but i've been riding bikes since dirt-grade as an early teen, been hit by a "stationary" truck, and seen quite a lot.
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