R/R Update - Convert your OLDER unit to NEWER unit
Electrex was clear to me when I reported my original findings. It
makes complete sense to me to tie the brown to red to lower the
voltage and provide more stability. When the brown wire is tied to the bike it tells the regulator to make up for IR losses in the bike
wiring... and if those wires are not very good, the regulator will
boost it's local voltage to make up for that.
Connecting the brown to the red wire is only changing the sense to
the regulator output, where it should be.
I was running somewhat overvoltage with the sense wire, now it's
right (and more stable) by using the latest pointed-end which
has an internal connection of the brown wire to red output.
See my previous posts on this. I posted all the links to the
schematics which shows what I am talking about. If any questions, you
know where to find me !
From: "Dan Morgan"
Subject: Re: [VN750] Electrical Problem continues.
- How to check out the R/R
If you have the Kawasaki Service Manual, you will find R/R checkout on page 15-18. If you don't I will list what is there for you. Quoted from the manual as much as possible: Regulator/Rectifier Inspection Remove the left side cover. Pull out the connector. Be sure to set the hand tester to the 100 ohm range and zero the meter(Not necessary on a digital meter) Check the resistance between the regulator/rectifier terminals as follows(there is a chart and picture in the manual which I cannot reproduce right now but I will try to put it in words for you)
A1 A2 A3 All Alternator Terminals --- --- --- Connector with pins facing you and notch at bottom --- --- ---
G M B G = Ground M = Monitor B = Battery --|__|-- (Hope that came across right)
Measure B to M - should read infinity
Measure B to G - should read infinity
Measure B to A1, A2, A3 - should read infinity
Measure M to B - should read > 10K ohm Measure
M to G - should read > 10K ohm
Measure M to A1, A2, A3 - should read > 10K ohm
Measure G to B - should read between 0.4 to 2K ohm
Measure G to M - should read between 1 to 5K ohm
Measure G to A1, A2, A3 - should read 0.2 to 0.6K ohm(200 to 600 ohm)
Measure A1, A2, A3 to B - should read 0.2 to 0.6K ohm(200 to 600 ohm)
Measure A1, A2, A3 to M - should read infinity
Measure A1, A2, A3 to G - should read infinity
If there is more resistance than the specified value, the unit has an open lead and must be replaced. Much less than this resistance means the unit is shorted, and must be replaced. Hope this helps someone out there. Dan Morgan
Q: Here is what I always wondered. Some people insist that the energy generated by the bike's charging system needs to be used, or the stator and reg/rec will have to heat up to dissipate it. They say that adding electrical accessories will result in less stress to the charging system, since the charging system does not have to dissipate the excess energy. And since the charging system does not have to dissipate energy, it will not be subjected to heat associated with dissipation. Now, if I recall correctly, energy dissipated in an electrical circuit is dependant on current and resistance. If there are no electrical accessories attached to the bike, there will be a voltage, but current will not be flowing through the charging system at all. Adding accessories to the bike will result in more current flowing out of the charging system. More current means more heat within the charging system as well, no? And if that's the case, adding accessories will make the charging system hotter, not cooler. So what is the truth? Should I try to reduce electrical requirement by using LED bulbs, etc., or should I not be afraid to add accessories as long as the battery gets charged at cruising speed? Technical answers are welcome. I really want to understand this. Thanks, Masa
Masa, I think you are asking: "how can adding accessories be better on the stator". Hope I can help here by attempting to show that's not always the case, and it's more involved than that.
First some terminology
I=Current (I know, pretty stupid)
It is true that V=IR (voltage=current X resistance), or I=V/R. So the lower the resistance, the higher the current for a given voltage.
Adding MORE accessories is the same as .... "increasing the load" ... is the same as "decreasing the resistance" ... is the same as "increasing the current" since (I=V/R). You can see that as R gets less, the I gets higher. Stator Current: "Use it or loose it" - the current generated by the stator can be used by YOU (your accessories) or go just to the regulator !
The voltage regulator / rectifier (the one that has been talked about so much), will "dissipate" or "sink" or "bleed-off" or "dump" any voltage over a certain point, as the regulator ITSELF is actually a "load" or resistance just like the headlight or added accessories are. Since it only consumes current when the voltage is higher (which is why it gets hot BTW) you can "bleed" some of that current away from the regulator and use it for other things !
This is KEY: If you "bleed" too much, the regulator cannot do it's job, and it stresses the stator. However, not adding accessories will not wear out the stator, the extra current just goes to the regulator.
Driving lights, horns, heating pads all take a lot more current or consume a lot more "power" or "watts" than do cell phones, CD players and such. The current of those is negligable.
OK so to recap, - stator current, use it or loose it
- regulator takes current itself
- but you can use the current for something else (to a point), no need to use it to heat the regulator (to a point, the regulator still needs to 'regulate' which takes some current)
- too many accessories stresses the stator
- no accessories will not stress the stator any more (the unused current still is 'dumped' into the regulator).
- lights, horns, and heating pads take a lot more power than cell phones, CD players
Yes, this is technical and can get confusing. If you need any more explanation, just let us know. That's what this board is for.
Q: was wondering about packing the connectors with the dielectric grease. If this grease conducts electricity, wouldn't there be a risk of shorting out from one connector to the next in a multi-connector plug like that used on the R/R?
I have used dielectric grease on multi connectors for years with much success. I don't think it conducts well enough to pose a threat, but it does an outstanding job of keeping out moisture & dirt. It is also frequently used on boats to seal electrical connections. Mike Palm Bay, FL
I have read through all the opinions and suggestions... Fused the stator connections and packed all connections with dilectric grease.
Dielectric grease is an insulator. From somewhere: "Dielectric strength is the ability of an insulator to withstand potential difference. It is usually expressed in terms of the voltage at which the insulation fails because of the electrostatic stress. Maximum dielectric strength values can be measured only by raising the voltage of a TEST SAMPLE until the insulation breaks down."
The grease keeps out moisture, dirt, etc, protecting the connectors. The grease is displaced by the connectors sliding together - they must still be clean (not corroded) and make good contact. The surrounding grease just helps to make sure the connection stays good (not corroded).
Kenny in WV
i'm trying to get my priorities in order as to what i need to do to and get for my bike. the other posting by vince to the new members pointed out the r/r relocation is a priority. mechmo question
# 2 - how much is that gonna cost to get done ? (i see the part alone is about $120)
This is a relocation - not a replacement. Unless your stock unit is bad there is no need to replace it. The idea is to get the R/R out from under the battery box where it's subject to battery acid spills and extra heat from the goat's belly.
# 3 - it appears to be a "custom" job ? Would have to take directions in to the mechanic, or should a place that services kaws be up to speed on this?
The R/R is not difficult to do and requires little in the way of hardware. Check out the files in our database on moving the R/R. I bet you'll see that you can do it yourself.
# 4 - does the popping from the bikes do any actual harm to the bike/engine, or is it something fixed because it is an annoyance?
It's just an annoyance. Mine hardly does it at all and I've not coastered it yet. Since I'm planning to put some V&H Cruzers on it this year, I probably won't bother with coastering until I do the install. BTW - the #1 priority is to replace the stock battery with a maintenance-free type. From all the posts seen here and on the VROC main board, the stock battery is the #1 culprit for causing electrical problems that can be expensive and disastrous. The Westco and Yuasa brands come well recommended but there are other good ones out there too.
I agree 100% with MokiMan. #1 is the battery, and #2 is relocating the R/R. However, if your bike still has the goat belly, it will be more difficult. I think you have to remove it in order to get at the R/R. Is that correct, MokiMan?