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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-22-2007, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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What are my next steps?

I think the consensus on the thunking sound on the front cyl of Orleans is that I need to do an engine pull and put "something" back where it's supposed to be. A couple of things have been mentioned: cam shafts might have been removed/moved by PO and the timing is off; the valve lash adjusters have lost their charge and need to be reset; the oil pump chain has gone awry. Given the fact that the PO didn't seem to own any lubricant of any sort, I'm rather thinking that the cam chains weren't ever displaced...that said, however, the sound seems to be coming from right in that area.

So, are there any steps I can take to "adjust" something before tearing her down again? I've reloaded the cam chain tensioner a couple of times, to no avail, so that's out. I also drained and replaced the engine oil and it looked like crap - literally. It was horrible, and according to the service manual, contaminated oil can throw off the HLAs. But are there any tweaks that I can try with the engine in the frame? Or are there additional tests I can run to rule out certain issues as less likely than others? If I can get a recording of the engine noise, could someone take a stab at a diagnosis?

The tear down to bare bones is less daunting than pulling the engine and not knowing where to start. So if anyone has some helpful hints, I'm all ears.

Thanks!

C
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-22-2007, 02:38 PM
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Cindy -

Have tried the stick in the ear listening device yet? Get a 1 - 2 foot long stick, put one end in/against your ear, and touch the other end to various places on the running engine. You will be shocked at how many noises can be heard using this method.

You may be able to better focus your repair effort if you can pin point where the sound is coming from.

I have used this successfully many, many times. Mechanics stethoscope!

What frequency is the thunking happening at? Might help to know what else is moving at the same rate.

Probably going to start taking apart my 750 this weekend.

Jon

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-22-2007, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Hey, Jon -
It's definitely coming from around the cam chain area. Occasionally there's a hiccup in the engine rhythm as well, although that could just be something still going on with the carbs. There's also a higher-pitched tick-tick-tick coming from behind the left engine cover - doesn't sound bad, just not smooth. Nothing sounds like it's tearing itself apart - I've got no metal shavings in the oil (just looked milky); but the coolant level is the reservoir is steady.

Is there some way to manually tension the cam chains (foregoing the spring -loaded device) to see if that's maybe still the source of the problem?
C

C
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-22-2007, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crobins365 View Post
Hey, Jon -
It's definitely coming from around the cam chain area. Occasionally there's a hiccup in the engine rhythm as well, although that could just be something still going on with the carbs. There's also a higher-pitched tick-tick-tick coming from behind the left engine cover - doesn't sound bad, just not smooth. Nothing sounds like it's tearing itself apart - I've got no metal shavings in the oil (just looked milky); but the coolant level is the reservoir is steady.

Is there some way to manually tension the cam chains (foregoing the spring -loaded device) to see if that's maybe still the source of the problem?
C
Cindy -

I can't remember which way to turn, but if you remove the cap from the ACCT and turn the screw one way or the other, you should be able to rule that ACCT out. Should get worse one way and better the other.

When mine was broken, I couldn't believe how quiet it was when I held it in the right direction, I said, "now that sounds like an engine shoudl".

Jon

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MF AGM Battery
Coastered
Degoated
Shaved & Jetted
Iridium's
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Dunlop D-404's
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-23-2007, 04:11 AM
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As tightly packed as everything on the top end of the engine is (air intake and cylinder covers), I don't think there will be much you'll be able to get to easily to try and adjust.

If I'm not mistaken, the oil pump chain is more towards the bottom of the engine, in a more front to back direction, where as the ACCT chain is up and down. Maybe that'll help rule something out?


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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-23-2007, 04:40 PM
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The oil pump chain is behind the water pump on the inside of the crank case. The chain runs from the balancer shaft to the oil/water pump shaft and drives the pump(s). It is horizontally oriented from front to center in the case.
If you are hearing noise from the top of the cylinder, chances are it is NOT the oil pump chain.
If the VLA's have lost their charge, the engine will have to be pulled but only the valve cover and the cam bearing top half will have to be removed once the cam chains are loosened. Recharging them involves obtaining some Kerosene and placing the adjustor in a small jar filled with the Kerosene and then using either a special tool or a simple punch to basically pump the adjuster until it is full of Kerosene and then replacing it. There are 4 per head IIRC. The Clymer's manual has the procedure for bleeding the adjusters.
It may also be that the cam chains have stretched beyond what the tensioners can take care of but that's rare.
If the chains have slipped, it could be that the valves are out of time and are smacking against the top of the piston. That should get louder as the engine revs though.
One other thing it could be, if the PO didn't know what lubricant was for, the cam bearings may have worn beyond tolerance and are causing the noise as the cams rotate. Old oil can cause this and the bearing surfaces are very soft in the head assembly.
The easiest diagnosis may just be to pull the engine and tear down the front cylinder and see what's going on in there. What ever it is, I doubt that you will be able to adjust anything that you haven't already tried without the engine pull and disassembly.
Bummer

Jim W
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Moved R/R 08Sep06
R/R rewire 17Feb07
New R/R, Installed 14Jun08
New Stator installed 10 Jun08
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-23-2007, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, well, long weekend ahead anyway... and my paint is in, so maybe I can pull down the engine and prime a fender, all in the same four days! Actually, part of me wants to pull the engine on Dennis' bike, which needs but a stator and a new r/r, both of which i have in hand. That could be rideable by the end of the weekend; Orleans is gonna take some detective work.

C
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