Dagnabit!!! - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Angry Dagnabit!!!

Okay, so I'm back from LA and tried to work out all the kinks on Orleans last weekend - reloaded the front cyl ACCT, bled the front brakes again, adjusted the rear brake, and tightened the throttle cables.

Took her out for a spin around the block this evening, and...arrrrrr!
As I noted in another thread, I've still got a knocking noise coming from the front cyl. And it doesn't sound quite like the ACCT - a little thunkier than that.
Front brakes are great, rear brake is for naught - can't figure out what I'm doing wrong there, but it's not happening.
Throttle cables still feel loose, particularly the return cable.
AND Orleans has sprung at least one leak - I've got coolant coming out from the bottom of the bike; and I appear to be sucking excess gas into the carbs, which is dropping out between the two cylinders.

Anybody, anybody? I'll take suggestions on how to approach any or all - supposed to rain tomorrow, so I'll be in the garage instead of out riding.

C
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 10:03 PM
 
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I currently have coolant leaking form the bottom of my bike. It's on the right hand side where there is a hole going up into the crankcase area. I believe that's where it's coming from, anyway? Just wanted to find out what your thoughts are on that leak. Sorry, mine just started so I don't have anything to add.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 10:20 PM
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Is there any way you could localize the noise? Using a long screwdriver and resting it against various areas of the engine while it is running and putting your ear against the handle is a cheap stethoscope and comes in handy for localizing various noises. That being said, here is a list of things that I thought of that could be causing the noise.

The noise in the front cylinder could be from the valve lash adjusters. Was it the front cylinder you had to tear apart? If the adjusters have lost their oil charge, they will not adjust properly and cause noise. If you bled them after you took them out, they may not be the problem.
It may be that the cam chain guides were improperly installed and despite the rewound ACCTs, it is allowing the chain to slap still. Be careful with this one as it was an improperly installed chainguide that caused Ursula to have metal shavings in her system as the chains rubbed against the aluminum cylinder walls.
It could also be from the left side balancer. You didn't indicate where in the front cylinder assembly the noise was coming from but the balacer is in the forward part of the engine.
It could also be the oil pump chain but that is behind the water pump and a but further toward the center of the engine.
Worst case scenario would be a damaged main bearing but that is definitely more toward the center of the lower crankcase and is rare.

The coolant leak could be coming from anywhere and draining to the bottom of the engine. Since the cylinders are the only area of the engine that the coolant circulates in, check for a leaking fitting at the bottom of the cylinders. The water pump outlet is a prime area. If the nipple leading into the engine case was removed for any reason, it may be that an O ring was left out. It takes 2, not just 1 for that particular fitting. (Don't ask me how I know!!!) The hoses on the bottom of the radiator may also be leaking and running back to the bottom of the engine.

The carbs sound like one of the fuel lines may be leaking or it's possible one of the bowl gaskets has failed. My rear carb bowl gasket failed when I reassebled Ursula and leaked until I replaced the gasket. One other possibility is that the gasket between the petcock and fuel tank is leaking and fuel is running down the fuel lines. I had that problem and replacing that gasket along with scraping residue and rust from the tank where the petcock mounts solved that problem. That gasket can get flattened over time and no longer seal.

Jim W
93 VN 750 "Ursula"
Moved R/R 08Sep06
R/R rewire 17Feb07
New R/R, Installed 14Jun08
New Stator installed 10 Jun08
Maintenance Free Battery 12Jan08
21480 Miles
VROC #8542

Last edited by Sky Rider; 05-18-2007 at 10:30 PM.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 12:46 AM
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For the thunkier noise, I was thinking the adjusters too. Don't know if maybe a dose of Seafoam to the oil might help in cleaning out any oil ports, but it couldn't hurt. Just remember to replace the filter, along with taking the Seafoamed oil out.

And Skyriders suggestion, with the screwdriver stethescope, is how I've narrowed down countless problems on various vehicles. When you put your ear to the handle, and really listen, you'll be amazed at the sounds you here. As you move it around, you can tell if you're getting closer or further to the noise.


Have you triple checked that the brake cable is the same length and mounted just like on your other bike?
What about the wear limit on the drum itself? Checked that at all? Didn't you say before that you had a set of calipers?(the measuring kind, not the braking kind)
The limits are 180.00mm - 180.16mm (or 7.087" - 7.093")

Leaks can be tough to find. Usually the easiest way is to just look everywhere while the bike is running. Just watch out where you place you hands !!!
Good luck and let us know what ya find out.


AKA: Tim & 'The Adventure Cycle' VROC #24567, NEVROC, SteelCity VROC


"When life throws you curves,
Aim for the apex."

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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Oddly, I think we have a stethescope around the house (my better half was a veterinary nurse for 20 years), so I'll see if I can localize the sound. I actually didn't have to tear down the front cyl, only replaced the head gasket and then the o-rings in the spark plug retainers. Both of those points seemed to be sources of the original oil splootage (note: a "splootage" is a leak gone really bad). I'm guessing the valve lash adjusters and/or oil chain means a full engine teardown, huh? <sigh>

The coolant leak started after its first spin around the block - just a very slow drip from the bottom of the crankcase. Yesterday was just a spew from the radiator hose, but tightening the bands fixed that. What I don't understand is why I didn't have a spew the first time if things weren't tight enough. I guess the good news is that the coolant has an outside leak, so perhaps - perhaps - I can rule out a blown lower gasket in the front cyl?

Hyper, good point - I didn't check the length on the brake cable. Once I put the coolant reservoir on, it looked like the other cable (no tremendous excess) so I thought maybe that was the problem. But I'll go back and do that today - that would be the easiest fix. I believe the rear drum was within tolerances, and the shoes themselves (the newer ones that I put on) had plenty of brake left on 'em. So let's hope it's the cable.

I'll also check all the connections on the fuel tank. I realized yesterday when I was shuffling parts around that I have no fuel vent hose on Orleans. But that's for vapors, right? I'll also check the lines coming off the petcock (which needs to be rebuilt) - it is quite possible that one of the lines is not snug and I've just got some drippage there.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions - Wheeler, I'm at a loss...anybody??

C
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 01:10 PM
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If it's the valve lash adjustors, only the top part of the cylinder head needs to be torn apart. Everything else can stay. It just means an engine pull. You'll have to take the valve cover off the front cylinder and be very careful, if you move the cams at all you'll have to take the engine cover off and match the timing marks accordingly. Did you remove the lash adjustors from their positions when you tore down the front cylinder? If you didn't remove the cams and left the top of the cylinder alone, they should be fine.
The oil pump chain is an engine tear down and split cases. It's not as hard as you would think. You just have to keep track of where everything goes. Manuals are indespensible for that. The Clymer's is more detailed when it comes to engine disassembly than the Kaw manual. The Clymer's is a bit scizophrenic in its layout though.

Jim W
93 VN 750 "Ursula"
Moved R/R 08Sep06
R/R rewire 17Feb07
New R/R, Installed 14Jun08
New Stator installed 10 Jun08
Maintenance Free Battery 12Jan08
21480 Miles
VROC #8542
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Update - 3.30 pm

Okay, here's where she stands: The good news:
Gas was leaking (that's not a good start to any sentence is it?) from the boot between the front carb and the cylinder. BUT a little tightening of the bands fixed that issue.

Rear brake is fine, now that I've lined up the appropriate marks.

Cinched down the bolt on the crankcase - that stopped that leak. It just wasn't on very tight.

The bad news:
Reloaded the front ACCT one more time, just in case that was the problem. Still have a pretty good slap going on in there, so that's another job for another day.

Still can't get my throttle cables right. Now they're binding, so I'm going to go in and see what's happening in the right control housing.

AND there's some slight leak around the top gasket of the rear cyl...can't tell if it's coolant (drawing up the pipe) or oil. There wasn't a problem there when I first bought the bike, so I'm inclined to think I've got a bad o-ring on the coolant pipe or something along those lines.

Oh, one more thing: I was checking my battery charge, just to see if any part of Orleans is cooperating, and the charge is good. 12.89 volts engine off; 14 v engine at 5K rpm. That said, I am developing a white deposit on the negative battery terminal. I know that can't be a good sign....

C
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 04:15 PM
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The white deposit is usually just corosion, clean it off and coat the terminal with dielectric grease, that should take care of that.

Chad Falstad "Hawk"
Vroc #17649
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2001 Nomad 1500 Sold March 2012
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccspinner View Post
The white deposit is usually just corosion, clean it off and coat the terminal with dielectric grease, that should take care of that.
Thanks, Chad, best news Orleans has had all day!

Here's my 8.23 pm update:

Read through the service manual on how to troubleshoot the HLAs, and decided to go with an oil change for starters. The oil that came out was very milky - but, I had put Seafoam in it awhile ago to try to clean up the engine a bit. It doesn't appear that I'm losing coolant (level in the bin is steady - just shooting some out of the radiator hoses from time to time), but I didn't like the color and consistency of it.

So, I warmed up the engine, and used a breaker bar and 17mm socket to listen in, and I think the slap (which was there after the oil change) is coming from right around the cam chain tensioner. There's nothing on the right side (sitting in the saddle) from the front cyl, and the rear cyl is quiet. There's also kind of a high-pitch tick-tick-tick coming from around the alternator - oil pump chain?

And I pulled a spark plug from both the front and rear cyls. The front one is mostly clean, with a slight oily residue right around the base of the plug - gap is clean and the point is clean. The rear is oily and damp - too rich? I took pics and will edit and post if I can get them downloaded.

C
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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Here are pics of the plugs - sorry for the additional post, but I couldn't figure out how to "edit" and add 'em.

C

Last edited by Crobins365; 08-29-2007 at 09:30 AM.
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