MAJOR FAIL on cam timing!!! - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2013, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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MAJOR FAIL on cam timing!!!

Ok i think i have may royally messed up my valve timing!! I rebuilt my entire engine due to a spun rod bearing...well when putting back together everything went fine but i think i may have missed a step! when installing the cam chains i followed instructions precisely on the front cylinder all marks lined up perfectly so i proceeded to the rear cylinder..this is where i may have gone wrong because instead of following the manuals "305 degree of counterclockwise rotation to set the rear at tdc on compression stroke" i just turned the crank gear mark to the line on the casing without going the full 305 degrees! I just saw the marks and lined them up...(bad idea) well the chains went on fine just like on the front cylinder and all the marks lined up! So I felt good about it until i got the engine in the frame and proceeded to start the bike..my starter is having a tough time rotating the engine over..so i bought a new battery, starter and starter solenoid thinking i had a starter and power issue just to find out that none of that helped and sti had the same issue of the starter will turn but will die out as if the battery is dead...come to realization this morning i may have a valve timing issue! Smh!! So after reading a few threads i found that other rebuilders have made the same mistake as well..my goal today is to lower the engine from the frame enough to get the rear valve cover off and proceed with rolling the cam timing out 180 degrees on rear cylinder...my question is how do i go about doing this procedure..any help would be greatly appreciated!

Last edited by Arob559; 09-24-2013 at 01:03 PM.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2013, 02:36 PM
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I am going to guess you are well off the mark.

First, in normal rotation #1 fires, 415* later #2 fires. 305* later #1 fires again.

If you are relatively inexperienced, I suggest you mark the direction of normal running rotation. Probably with tape.

Set the #1 TDC mark and verify proper cam timing. If #1 cam timing is off, rotate the engine 360* to #1 again and check cam timing.

Rotate in normal rotation to #2 TDC, this should only be a short distance. 55* of crankshaft revolution. DO NOT set cam timing for #2 at this time. Go one full revolution (360*) to THE SAME MARK, check cam timing for #2.

This is my advise for most people. HTH.

Ask more questions if necessary.

Last edited by wmsonta; 09-24-2013 at 02:40 PM.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2013, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmsonta View Post
I am going to guess you are well off the mark.

First, in normal rotation #1 fires, 415* later #2 fires. 305* later #1 fires again.

If you are relatively inexperienced, I suggest you mark the direction of normal running rotation. Probably with tape.

Set the #1 TDC mark and verify proper cam timing. If #1 cam timing is off, rotate the engine 360* to #1 again and check cam timing.

Rotate in normal rotation to #2 TDC, this should only be a short distance. 55* of crankshaft revolution. DO NOT set cam timing for #2 at this time. Go one full revolution (360*) to THE SAME MARK, check cam timing for #2.

This is my advise for most people. HTH.

Ask more questions if necessary.
First off thank you sooo much for the reply!!...Ok so when im checking timing on #2 and go to the full 360* mark my camshaft marks SHOULD face out-word like how pictured in the book..correct?

Im assuming that the way i installed the rear timing chain i accidentally installed the chain at that first 55* degree mark instead of doing like u said and go an addition 360* turn correct me if I'm wrong..so if i go out to my engine now when i rotate the engine to that correct 360* mark my timing marks on the camshaft will be facing each other instead of facing out correct..so all i need to do is loosen the tensioner and take off the camshaft cap and move the camshafts to have the marks facing out like stated in the book correct?
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmsonta View Post
I am going to guess you are well off the mark.

First, in normal rotation #1 fires, 415* later #2 fires. 305* later #1 fires again.

If you are relatively inexperienced, I suggest you mark the direction of normal running rotation. Probably with tape.

Set the #1 TDC mark and verify proper cam timing. If #1 cam timing is off, rotate the engine 360* to #1 again and check cam timing.

Rotate in normal rotation to #2 TDC, this should only be a short distance. 55* of crankshaft revolution. DO NOT set cam timing for #2 at this time. Go one full revolution (360*) to THE SAME MARK, check cam timing for #2.

This is my advise for most people. HTH.

Ask more questions if necessary.
why must you always over complicate things man

here is the easy way
1. open up the rear cylinder enough to see the cams

2. turn the engine until the marks are facing each other

3. remove the tensioners and cam cap

4. now without moving the crankshaft rotate each cam where the marks are facing away from each other

5. make sure the chain has no slack on the forward side opposite of the tensioners

6. if and only if all the above is done properly then you can install the tensioners and close the engine up

this should fix it

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2013, 03:20 PM
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remember if the starter is on the engine only rotate the engine counter clockwise or you can damage the starter

that is counter clockwise on the stator side

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2013, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by new rider 9984 View Post
why must you always over complicate things man

here is the easy way
1. open up the rear cylinder enough to see the cams

2. turn the engine until the marks are facing each other

3. remove the tensioners and cam cap

4. now without moving the crankshaft rotate each cam where the marks are facing away from each other

5. make sure the chain has no slack on the forward side opposite of the tensioners

6. if and only if all the above is done properly then you can install the tensioners and close the engine up

this should fix it
YOU ARE THE MAN!! Thanks bro! Nice and simple and got straight to the point!ill post the end results once finished!! Appreciate it!!
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2013, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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How should i go about turning the crankshaft counterclockwise to get the cams marks lined up..meaning which pulley should i turn?
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2013, 03:51 PM
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Please do yourself a favor and after getting everything set properly rotate the engine a few times and CHECK your timing marks.

When I replaced a valve I thought my timing was perfect, it was far from it, off by about 3 or 4 teeth on the cam, good thing I checked it cause ther would have been no way to tell once in the frame again

the way I did mine (on an 800) set front cyl cam, rotate crank 305 degrees to TDC rear and set rear, never spin backwards, that should do it, just like the manual says.

good luck

(edit)well actually I would have been able to tell in the frame, just no way to fix it in the frame haha(end edit)
kenny

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Last edited by Mercury; 09-24-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2013, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
Please do yourself a favor and after getting everything set properly rotate the engine a few times and CHECK your timing marks.

When I replaced a valve I thought my timing was perfect, it was far from it, off by about 3 or 4 teeth on the cam, good thing I checked it cause ther would have been no way to tell once in the frame again

the way I did mine (on an 800) set front cyl cam, rotate crank 305 degrees to TDC rear and set rear, never spin backwards, that should do it, just like the manual says.

good luck

(edit)well actually I would have been able to tell in the frame, just no way to fix it in the frame haha(end edit)
kenny
He is exactly right ,you must rotate the engine the long way, 305 degrees or the front will be right and the rear will be off.




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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2013, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
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YOU ARE THE MAN!! Thanks bro! Nice and simple and got straight to the point!ill post the end results once finished!! Appreciate it!!
take off the outer stator cover the one with the three bolts and use a 17 mm socket on the nut in the dead center there

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