Cams 180 Out? - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Cams 180 Out? SOLVED

Replacement head installed. Used timing marks on left side of engine to set the cams in. Since I was not sure why valve bent before I reset cams in both heads. Can the be 180 degrees out? I have NO compression in either cylinder. I have pulled the side cover to look and TF mark lines up one way but if I rotate it 360 they do not.
Ken In Fl.

Last edited by ffltstn; 08-31-2013 at 06:58 AM. Reason: solved
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 02:19 PM
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These engines fire twice on each cylinder so no you can not be 180 out on the timing chains but if you have the cams on the wrong head you can be 180 out which will make the engine not start

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 02:30 PM
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Remember that the camshafts rotate at half engine speed. TF mark will occur at top dead center on front cylinder at compression and exhaust, turn it over from the rotor (anticlock direction) and get TF mark lined up with front cylinder on compression (both cam lobes away from valves) and check cam timing marks are lined up. Turn the rotor, again anticlockwise until TR lines up, check that rear lobes are up and that cam timing marks are in the right place. If it checks out OK then your cam timing is right.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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HMM, I did not have all the cams out at once so It can't be that. Before it bent the valve in the back head it was running fine. Any other ideas why compression would now be zero in both cylinders? The front had it after the bent valve but before tear down.
Ken
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 03:03 PM
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If a lifter was pumped up and holding pressure, it could possibly hold the valve open slightly. There is a procedure for bleeding air out of the lifters, but I'm not sure air in a lifter would act the same way.

If you happened to pre-fill the lifters and have only turned the engine over by hand to check compression, excess oil may not have bled out of the lifters yet. Repeated spinning over using the starter should be enough to allow the oil to bleed out.

For there to be no compression in a good cylinder, it would almost have to be going past a valve for some reason, assuming the timing is correct.

Did you leak test the valves before installing the head?

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 03:15 PM
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I had my engine apart recently. Without having the timing mark on the front cam I do not know how one would set it up, I assume the cam could be 180 out because the TDF mark on the crank happens two times for every full turn of the cam, but my saving grace was that I never disconnect my front cyl cam. Then again, as long as the TDF mark lines up the front cam, and then TDR (305 degrees later) lines up the 2nd cam, I do not think it matters.

I have a TDF and a TDR mark on the crank, these are 305 degress apart.

I have a VN800, so what I say may not be true for the 750.

can you take the valve covers off and see where the cams are when you get those timing marks? You should be able to see where the valves all are if it is anything like the 800.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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I am at work now, off tomorrow. So can't check everything. I lined up the marks and set cams with " holes" to the outside. Then when I rotated it 360 they were towards the inside. I didn't think that would make a difference on a v twin. I will do a leak down test tomorrow and see what I find.
Thanks everyone,
Ken
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-30-2013, 11:02 AM
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I repeat. the camshafts rotate at HALF engine speed. The timing marks/holes on the camshafts of each respective cylinder match up to their respective timing marks on the rotor every SECOND complete revolution of the engine. It's a FOUR stroke engine. Suck, squeeze, bang, puff. Check that the right cams are in the right position as they are not interchangable. Check the arms that transmit the motion from the cams to the valves are correctly seated.

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Last edited by gibbo; 08-30-2013 at 11:05 AM.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-30-2013, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
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I repeat. the camshafts rotate at HALF engine speed. The timing marks/holes on the camshafts of each respective cylinder match up to their respective timing marks on the rotor every SECOND complete revolution of the engine. It's a FOUR stroke engine. Suck, squeeze, bang, puff. Check that the right cams are in the right position as they are not interchangable. Check the arms that transmit the motion from the cams to the valves are correctly seated.
this being the case shouldnt TDC REAR be some crank shaft angle amount after TDC FRONT?

Like on my 800 it is 305 degrees.

If the camshafts were swapped it would never line up correct?

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-30-2013, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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If I had had both heads apart then I could have maybe switched them. But I think they were installed 180 degrees out. I reinstalled them, First I lined up the front cams with holes to the outside. I then rotated the crank 360 which put the holes to the inside. I then took out cams and reinstalled with the holes on the outside again, without moving the crank. Did the same for rear cams. Did leak down test, no leaks. Hooked up enough to crank over engine and ran compression test. BINGO compression in both cyclinders. Need to finish install to see if it will run, but I am sure it will now.
So the cams CAN be installed 180 degrees out.
Thanks for all your help.
Will report back once it's running.
Ken In Fl

Last edited by ffltstn; 08-30-2013 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Spelling
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