Starter One-way Clutch Gear; Excessive Play? - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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Starter One-way Clutch Gear; Excessive Play?

Hello All,

In pulling engine covers off to replace leaking gaskets, I have found that on the right side the gear on the starter clutch (see pic below)



seems to move in and out about 2mm.





I took a close look at this because when I would start my bike, I would hear one sharp metallic smack shortly after the bike started. The sound seemed to come from the front-right area of the engine. This didn't happen every time, but probably 80% of the time. So I'm thinking that this noise could be caused by this play that I'm seeing.

Is this play normal?

I look forward to any help that can be offered. Thanks.

Best Regards,
Chris

Arvada, CO
VROC No. 7348

1986 VN 750 Ebony
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 08:25 PM
 
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I know this sounds dorky, but I was just reading the Clutch portion of my Clymer repair manual. I don't have any personal knowledge about this, but shouldn't the springs under the cover plate keep that from moving? The Clymer doesn't say anything about play, so I assume it isn't supposed to be there, but maybe the springs keep it from moving the 20 percent of the time that it doesn't make the noise.

Clutch novice, Kait
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 09:12 PM
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Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb and say: Kait, he's referring to the STARTER clutch. I think you're referring to our transmission clutch. Correct me if I'm wrong.

CJ - those are nice pics. Unfortunately, I have no idea about whether it's supposed to be that loose. Doesn't seem like it should.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-20-2006, 09:16 PM
 
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You're right! But don't get used to hearing that from me... I was talking about the transmission clutch... why don't they come up with a different name for that starter thingy?
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:19 AM
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Lets see.... When you start your bike.... cold or every time?? Does it sound like a smack or a snap??

I have a 95 and mine makes a snapping noise when I start her up in the morning.... I believe that is the ACCT springs going into play. Only happens first thing in the morning. If it is a smack and/or every time.... Got me.

Just a thought.

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:22 AM
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With a bike that old, things are bound to be wore out.
And from the pics, it looks like some wear on the bolt head from previous work done to it.
(or did you try to tighten it?)
From looking at a parts diagram, there should be a thin spacer (PN 92026 spacer-connecting rod) that might not be there.
Don't mean to put ya in a panic about that, but it's a possibility.
I haven't had my engine apart yet, so it's just a shot in the dark.


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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 03:04 AM
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Good catch, Hyper.

Looking at the shop manual, that washer thing is supposed to be tapered, which means that the gear must be allowed some movement. From the picture, it appears that the taper is gone. While you've got it apart, replace the tapered washer with a new one (may have to order). I bet your schwack sound goes away.

Part number 92022 - it's on the parts page with the crankshaft.

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Last edited by cegodsey; 08-21-2006 at 03:12 AM.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cegodsey
Looking at the shop manual, that washer thing is supposed to be tapered, which means that the gear must be allowed some movement. From the picture, it appears that the taper is gone.
Part number 92022 - it's on the parts page with the crankshaft.
I didn't really notice that at first. but now that ya mention it, very well could be that washer is worn. It does look kinda like it should be tapered.

Repairing with just a new washer, it would probably get wore out by the old gear. Replacing both would be best for long term fix. (if that's the problem)


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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-23-2006, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
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Wow! Thanks for all your replies. I'll just go ahead and reply to all your posts in this one message.

True, the bike is 20 years old (how did THAT happen?), but it only has 26,675 miles on it. It's been very well taken care of with regular oil & filter changes with quality products. It's been ridden spiritly but not flogged. It's never had any problems that couldn't be fixed by a proper tuning or a MF battery.

The bolt that holds the gear on isn't as worn as it looked. I'm guessing it just looks that way because of the lighting and the camera. In fact, this is the first time the engine has ever been opened-up.

I, too, suspect some washer wear. The copper inboard washer looks pretty good and I really doubt it's lost 2mm of material. I figure I'll go ahead and replace it while I'm in there, even if it cost $ 6.00!

As for the taper washer, thanks Cegodsey for pointing out that the gear may be intended to move. Even though the pic doesn't show it well, there still is quite a bit of taper left to it. But as has been my motto on this project, "While I'm in there, I may as well replace it." Seeing as this gear may well be intended to move, perhaps it's just getting hung-up a bit. When it gets free I get that smack. Perhaps I should replace the needle bearing that goes between the gear and the counter-balancer shaft, too?

As for the smack sound it makes, when it decides to happen it's only on the first start of the day. I've gone ahead and bought a set of ACCT springs from TOC for the rebuild, so that should take the ACCTs out of the smack picture.

Oh, and thanks for the compliment on the pics. Once I found the camera's macro mode, I got much better results.

As always, I look forward to reading your thoughts on all this.
Thanks.

Best Regards,
Chris

Arvada, CO
VROC No. 7348

1986 VN 750 Ebony

Last edited by cjcoburn; 08-23-2006 at 12:16 AM.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-23-2006, 12:39 AM
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Go ahead and replace all that you can. It doesn't appear that any teeth are worn, so that indicates it has been taken care of. I'm curious - why does the gear move? I thought that the fact it is on the crankshaft, and the area gets hot, that maybe it's like that for expansion, but that doesn't make sense, because the rod would move further away from the gear, not vice versa. Can you tell why it's important for the gear to move?

You may need to take Hyper's advice about replacing the gear. I guess it comes down to which is softer, the gear or the washer. It could be that the gear is worn an equal amount, thus is moving too much, even after you replace the washer.

As to MACRO mode, can you teach the goofballs on eBay how to do that? Nothing worse than someone taking a picture of an odometer, and all you see is a blur!

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