Whirl after rebuild assistance - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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Whirl after rebuild assistance

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Last edited by FlacoLove; 03-25-2013 at 03:25 AM.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlacoLove View Post
Calling upon all my senior members:

'just finished rebuilding my whole engine; cracked case; replaced stripped shift shaft; cracked/corroded dampers; almost every single gasket, Orings, circlips; replaced thermostat with new/used housing. I studied/researched fellow member's "Roach" videos (I owe that man MY LIFE!) and my manual and was very careful to avoid mistakes.

Once reassembled, I poured in coolant and immediately leaked through right side chomed pipe (upper part of pipe where cyls meet). I realized the new Orings where not in all the way; they were pinched. I removed right exhaust; subframe, brake; big/inner clutch cover to redo that pipe with new Orings and destroyed that big clutch cover water gasket in the process. (presently awaiting new one); Bummer.

Before this removal, (mentioned above) and as the leak was so small, I added three quarts of oil and fired her up. Everything sounded magnificent (no more HLA taps, no skips; magnificent!) but... there was a whirl sound up front/right. What is that??? I inspected the inside (when fixing the Orings mentioned above) and everything looked good. As it appeared to come from around the starter area/right side, I thought it was the washer that floats over the idle sprocket (that connects to starter/balancer) but didn't see any aberrations. I assembled everything with a good engine rebuild lube (it's black with moly). I was extremely cautious and attentive with this project. I was so certain that although I stripped her down to bare bolts, she would start immediately once assembled and her float bowls were full, and she did!

But what is this whirl?!!! Please let this be some kind of breaking in process that will disappear after a mile or two. Maybe just the starter?? Upon removal, the prior owner only had one bolt holding it on. Removal of it was difficult as it was gunked up with dried oil/sludged nastiness/ had to use rubber mallet. I cleaned her good and upon reassembling, she went in nice and smooth. Could this be the whirl? I can accept a new/used one But how can I tell? Soon my gasket will arrive, then it's back to this whirl... What is it?

Any and all solutions and/or possibilities will be accepted. Ride safe.
sounds like it could be a starter drive stuck out and not disengaging,check to make sure it moves freely,now would be a good time to do it,since you already have the oil out.make sure the armature shaft isn't crooked or bent and check the bushings for wear.i say these things because ,they are simple to check and you mentioned the PO had only one bolt in the starter,and may have done some damage.Another possibility is your rotor could be rubbing the stator slightly.I remember a couple of years back some one had some difficulty getting a rotor to align correctly,although I can't remember who or why.
I have never experienced any odd noises at break in, on any engine rebuild I have done that didn't point to a problem somewhere.but then again I can't hear the best either others may be able to hear rings seating,all I can say is find it now before you run it much,it will probably turn into something worse if you don't.Sorry I couldn't be more help.But with the info you have given ,the starter is where I would look first.




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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 09:57 AM
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First off, congrats on the rebuild. I know how satisfying it is to hear it fire fore the first time. I'm glad I was a help.

My first thought is the same as denny's. Something to do with the starter not disengaging.

I would definitely try and track it down before putting it back together.

I also remember those o-rings on that coolant tube being a pain.

EDIT:


Now that I've thought about it a bit more, I realized that the starter doesn't actually disengage, rather the gear on the right side balancer stays stationary as the engine rotates due to the one way clutch. At least I think that's how it works.

So my thinking would be maybe that clutch isn't operating right? I remember holding that balancer and spinning the gear one way it would freewheel, and the other way it would grab. I still don't understand how that mechanism works, it's really nifty.

Anyhow, if it's not freewheeling when it should, it might be spinning the starter all the time.

Maybe re-check the assembly on that balancer? I know that the inside race of the needle bearing had to sit inside the large flat washer that is sandwiched between the two halves of the balancer. I remember having to wiggle it a bit to make that happen. Something to check maybe?

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1985 VN750 Acquired Feb, 2011 - 13,676km
Mods - Ear Shave, Pickup Coil Gap, Drilled Clutch Basket, Shift Tie Rod, Mosfet R/R, MF Battery, De-Goated (H-Pipe), MCCT, Heated Grips, Plexistar 2 Windshield

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 12:06 PM
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The Starter is real easy to take apart, Clean, & lube. That is where I'd start

JaY



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2002 VN750 Vulcan
Rebuilt Engine
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-03-2012, 07:06 PM
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You ma be onto something on the water pump,There is a part called the mechanical seal and the impeller and I think you can change it with the right side case removed and you already have it off.Change 'em now before you put it back together,you'll be better of in the long run.

Take the starter off and check that gear that Roach was talking about,it does have some kind of overrunning clutch in it,It must turn freely in one direction ,we know it locks going the direction it is supposed to or it wouldn't crank the engine.Also what JT said and make sure the starter is not binding it up,It has been a while but I think there is a thin thrust washer on that starter,if you accidentally put the wrong washer in there it could bind the starter against the Idler gear.

I think it is starter or gear related,but rebuild your water pump while it is accessible for piece of mind. Look for threads on "Mechanical seal" using the search function and look it up in your manual as well .You will see what I am talking about.

I would have gotten back to you sooner but ,I've been out riding today.You will be soon and maybe you can get quite few trouble free miles in after this rebuild.Take care of all the little details now and major problems shouldn't occur later.You'll get a more harmonious outcome by doing so




If you see it on my bike I did it
VROC#30324
92 vn750(sold)
Current ride 05 1500 Classic FI
lovin' the new scoot



Quote:
"When all is said and done,usually more is said than done" UNK
Click on one x and drag to the other to read between them.

Psalm 40:1...
XI waited patiently for the Lord; and he turned unto me, and heard my cry. X
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-04-2012, 11:35 AM
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Even though you can access that seal with the impeller off the shaft, I would guess it will be a real pain to remove with the shaft in place. Mine was a pain in the ass with the shaft out of the way.

That being said, it would be doable. And if I were in your shoes I'd try it before splitting the case to get the shaft out of the way.

I wonder if you could remove the spark plugs, lube up the cylinders, and crank the engine with a drill or something to re-create the whirl? I really don't know if that's doable, but a little troubleshooting might save you a lot of time.

Street
1985 VN750 Acquired Feb, 2011 - 13,676km
Mods - Ear Shave, Pickup Coil Gap, Drilled Clutch Basket, Shift Tie Rod, Mosfet R/R, MF Battery, De-Goated (H-Pipe), MCCT, Heated Grips, Plexistar 2 Windshield

Dirt
2004 KTM SX 125 - 1979 Can-Am Qualifier 250 - 1971 Kawasaki F6

Video Tutorials - Engine Rebuild - Fork Seal Replacement - Grease Swing Arm Bearings - Carb Rebuild - Spline Lube - Refilling Rear Shocks - Grease Steering Bearings
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-04-2012, 03:09 PM
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This may sound simple and basic, but the only thing on a Vulcan that is SUPPOSED to make that noise is the radiator fan. Mine freaked me out first time it came on. Just a thought, but mebbe its coming on too early ?
And Flaco, did you air bleed the cooling system after refilling it ? Just a cupla things off the top of my head. I always try to look for simple fix problems before getting deeper. Very often, a strange noise can be something as simple as a loose bolt (my sissy bar drove me nuts with noise, until I realized I forgot to tighten the bolts).



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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-04-2012, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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Last edited by FlacoLove; 03-25-2013 at 03:23 AM.
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