cam chain timing problem, please help! - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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cam chain timing problem, please help!

Ok, so I removed my heads to install new hla's, and during the process I believe I may have slipped my cam chain one link clockwise, when facing the engine. I mostly think that because when i aligned them with the gear in the stator at TDC, and i have 24 pins (or 12 links) between the two punch marks on the cam-shaft gears (manual specs) the punch holes are supposed to line up with the edge of the engine case. HOWEVER, the books specifies that there is only suppose to be ONE timing mark for tdc front cylinder. In my case, the mark they used to identify it as TF (top front) is the same exact size, length, depth, and looks to of been made by the same tool, as the mark in front of it. There is also a blue mark that sits in line with the "-" part of the Tse the other one." I have pictures below of the blue mark lined up to the tdc, and then a picture of the cams with the proper amount of links between them and where they line up at. Hopefully this helps.

lined up on blue mark (top of the T looks exactly like the timing marks on the rest of the wheel)


cam shafts, with proper amount of links between them, on the blue line


gear on the stator lined up on the timing mark in front of the "T"


cam gears with the stator gear on the mark in front of the "T"


what i'm hoping is that i can slip it back one link to put it back where it's suppose to be, the same way i slipped it off. I just need to know WHICH one of those marks is actual TDC, or I'm screwed. There are also a bunch of "M" marks on the chain, one section has 5 in a row, then another one one link sepereated from the group. Then theres a section where theres 3, but each one has a link inbetween them, looks like this (the -'s are links, them M's are links with an M on them) -M-M-M- and for the group MMMMM-M

Last edited by Backlash1818; 08-06-2011 at 12:43 PM.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 03:33 PM
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The pictures and drawings in my Clymers manual indicate the mark by the blue line is the timing mark. Not sure what the other mark to the left is for.

Gordon

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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my manual says that the mark in front of the blue mark is the actual mark, and the second mark is actually a TF, which means tops front. I think I need a timing gun or something, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could take a nice close up exactly like mine, one of the big plate down on the bottom at top dead center, and one of the cam shafts and how they line up with the top of the engine and so forth. I got another two weeks to figure this out before i go back to school =(
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 07:37 PM
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I used to put a screw driver into the plug hole and feel for the top of the piston to find TDC when I worked on cars that were too cruddy to find the timing mark. I know the two marks are close but if you could get something in there to gauge where the piston is highest that might do it. The marks are so close that it may be a useless suggestion but I'll throw it out there anyway. Good luck.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-16-2011, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backlash1818 View Post
my manual says that the mark in front of the blue mark is the actual mark, and the second mark is actually a TF, which means tops front. I think I need a timing gun or something, but I'd really appreciate it if someone could take a nice close up exactly like mine, one of the big plate down on the bottom at top dead center, and one of the cam shafts and how they line up with the top of the engine and so forth. I got another two weeks to figure this out before i go back to school =(
Well, I mis-spoke myself in my first post.
As you say, the mark to the left of the blue mark IS the timing mark that should line up with the index mark on the crankcase when using a timing light.

According to everything I know about engine timing, the spark should occur a few degrees Before Top Dead Center. Perhaps the mark by the blue line (marked TF, or top front) is TDC. I`m not sure, and the Clymer manual doesn`t specify, that I can find. Sorry. Wish I could be more help.

Gordon

1991 VN 750 -"Cosmic Lady" or "Bad Girl"?
Purchased May 16, 2008
Approx.19,300km (12,000 miles)

H-D windshield
Relocated R/R
MF-AGM battery
Fiamm Freeway Blaster horns
F&S luggage rack and engine guard
Kury Offset Hiway pegs
July 13, 2016, Riding on the DARKSIDE now, Classic Radial 165/80-15


TOP TEN THINGS A NEW RIDER/OWNER SHOULD DO. Click on link.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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I think I had it down...

I fairly certain that at one point in all my figuring i had the timing correct, or as close as it will get. And each different way I tried it didn't work. So I ran into another possibility, and I'd like to throw it by you guys before I yank my engine and go through that whole painful procedure. When I put it together the first time i dindn't know crap about timing, and had no idea that I should of set my bike to tdc BEFORE I took anything apart. That being said, when i put it together I obviously didn't have it set right. Is it possible that having it that far off bent one of my valves? I noticed a ding in the lobe of the rear camshaft, closest to the left ( this is if your sitting on the bike) and heard some kind of a pinging noise, or metal tapping metal. I'm not sure how to check that without taking the darn thing apart, and I really don't want to do that. Any suggestions?
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-01-2012, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Well, I mis-spoke myself in my first post.
Shame on you Hoss !!....*wink*

And ya, TF is TDC front cyl, and TR is TDC rear cyl. Im gonna be dealing with all this soon meself, soon as it gets a lil warmer. I think my chain mighta jumped a tooth when the MCCT backed out. Hope not. Internal engine stuff is rough for me now because of my arthritis and eyes. I know a guy wholl do it for me though for a few BBQ steaks and some beer.



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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-07-2012, 03:35 PM
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Ever figure it out ? I need to slip mine back a tooth also.



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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-07-2012, 05:27 PM
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The problem with using timing marks on an engine with cam chain and sprocket wear is that it will sometimes be impossible to get all the marks to line up perfectly. I ran into the same issue when I replaced the belts on my Goldwing. I absolutely could not get the marks to line up exactly. Compounding the problem on the GW, is that the belts have tensioners, which have to be adjusted manually. A hair off on the tension will also effect how the marks line up. That might also be a factor on the Vulcan if the chain does not have the proper tension on it. According to the Clymer manual, you actually have to count the links.

Just slightly different, but on many car engines, I have found timing chains and sprockets so badly worn (at surprisingly low mileage) that you could turn the cam sprocket some distance to both sides of the mark, without moving the crankshaft at all.

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Last edited by VN750Rider/Jerry; 04-07-2012 at 05:30 PM.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-11-2012, 03:54 PM
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Well, I counted my links between cam sprockets, and they're where theyre supposed to be, and under tension line up perfectly with the top of the cyl. My TDC mark however lands on the "T" of TF as in the blue mark above. Gotta be one tooth off, since I started getting an occasional puff of backfire/smoke through that carb.
Looks like I'll be down at least until summer, as my garage aint heated, and its been getting into the mid 30s here at night. Doesnt warm up until 2pm, and at 5pm, sun sets over the mountain and gets cold again.



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