Head Gasket Orientation? - Page 4 - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 04:16 PM
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You might pull the clutch cover and observe the clutch pack while moving the lever, but with the spring action I'm not sure it would show anything. It seems that it all should be moving, if it was broken or stuck, the hand lever should feel dead.

Yes, the driveshaft will flop around with the rear drive removed, it lays down against the swingarm tube when the gear is not installed. There's just nothing else holding it up.

Only part not checked is the bevel gear. There are dogs in there that lock up, with a spring to hold tension. With the bevel case removed, you should be able to rotate the driveshaft and see if the rear coupler and rear gear are engaged, or just spin the rear wheel by hand. Could be the front splines, but I've never heard of it.

Haven't heard of the trans breaking, but it's not impossible. I do recall some having troubles at the bevel gear, but don't recall exactly what. Broken dogs or shredded gears maybe. One poster did have the cover and seal pop off, he bought a can of soup and hammered the can in there to get home.

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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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The one thing I noticed with the clutch basket while packing it was that it spun freely (the bike was in neutral at this time) and I could not torque the spring bolts without putting it into 1st gear. I'm confident there are the right number of plates, etc.

I just took a peek under the rubber seal near the transmission, and the front splines appear the same while the bike is in neutral and 1st. It does seem that the problem lies in the engine.

When I replaced my head gaskets, I never pulled off the front bevel gear housing. I do know that the clutch pushrod is free and in good shape though.

I had the bike just in 1st gear on the centerstand, and with the clutch handle fully out, if I spun the rear wheel BACKWARDS with my foot, the wheel would sort of tick and slow itself dowm. That led me to believe that there is a little power being transferred in the engine?

Thanks for your continued help. The weather is finally nice here and I want to get riding!

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Originally Posted by Spockster View Post
You might pull the clutch cover and observe the clutch pack while moving the lever, but with the spring action I'm not sure it would show anything. It seems that it all should be moving, if it was broken or stuck, the hand lever should feel dead.

Yes, the driveshaft will flop around with the rear drive removed, it lays down against the swingarm tube when the gear is not installed. There's just nothing else holding it up.

Only part not checked is the bevel gear. There are dogs in there that lock up, with a spring to hold tension. With the bevel case removed, you should be able to rotate the driveshaft and see if the rear coupler and rear gear are engaged, or just spin the rear wheel by hand. Could be the front splines, but I've never heard of it.

Haven't heard of the trans breaking, but it's not impossible. I do recall some having troubles at the bevel gear, but don't recall exactly what. Broken dogs or shredded gears maybe. One poster did have the cover and seal pop off, he bought a can of soup and hammered the can in there to get home.
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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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The spring IS in place. The clutch plates i'd say have the thickness of between 1-2 layers, so not brand new.

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Good points. Second paragraph made me think of a broken clutch basket. Lever has spring action, but flexing of the basket prevents engagement?

Important 3rd paragraph - Coupler spring is in place, or missing? Previous owners might have been in there, sounds like you had some old grease on worn rusty splines.

New clutch plates have friction material approx. the thickness of 2-3 layers of cereal box. Plates that are worn put can have thickness of of one layer, but they can still move the bike, probably slipping when power is added.

If nothing MTB posted is amiss, your plates must be completely wiped smooth. However, I'm reminded of a bad clutch I had one miserable winter. I could start the car, put it in gear, get out to scrape the windows with the trans in gear, get back in to rev the engine. After a while the car would move and drive although the clutch slipped if I put on too much power. Drove to work a week this way. So even metal to metal, a clutch can still grab.

Does it look like the clutch has been opened up, like a new gasket, etc.? Somebody left a disc or steel out?
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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Just checked this out- the bike seems to behave the same way in neutral and 1st gear.

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Thinking on it more, I'd leave the tire on. An unsupported shaft could flop and shift and bang around horribly. Looking past that rubber gasket at the transmission should be fine on the center stand started in neutral then clutch released in 1st.
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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakob_rothfuss View Post
The one thing I noticed with the clutch basket while packing it was that it spun freely (the bike was in neutral at this time) and I could not torque the spring bolts without putting it into 1st gear. I'm confident there are the right number of plates, etc.

....
Makes me think there's a problem with one of the gears behind the clutch case. There's an idler gear in there, someone did have a problem with that.

The clutch should be locked to the engine via those gears. Right guys?

2003-21k mi
Shaved w/UniPK92+Stock Jets-TPE/MOSFET-Shinko Tires-AGM batt-bags-chrome-LEDs...more
__________________________________________________ ____________
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Owner's Manual: http://www.mediafire.com/file/nscb5f...ers+Manual.pdf
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post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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Spockster- that was my understanding too, that the clutch basket shouldn't move. Looks like I should pull that side of the frame off and pop the cover?

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Makes me think there's a problem with one of the gears behind the clutch case. There's an idler gear in there, someone did have a problem with that.

The clutch should be locked to the engine via those gears. Right guys?
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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakob_rothfuss View Post
Spockster- that was my understanding too, that the clutch basket shouldn't move. Looks like I should pull that side of the frame off and pop the cover?
It's looking like you should check.

Just to be sure... The clutch would move with a wrench, but you would feel the engine rolling up onto the compression stroke for each cylinder. "Spinning freely" sounds like that doesn't happen.

Going to look through the manual, but I'm pretty sure there's a gear connecting the clutch and crankshaft, versus the clutch being on the end of the crank.

Edit: Section 5-9, bottom right pic, there's the gear on the crank ahead of the clutch.

Edit: Found a pic


2003-21k mi
Shaved w/UniPK92+Stock Jets-TPE/MOSFET-Shinko Tires-AGM batt-bags-chrome-LEDs...more
__________________________________________________ ____________
Repair Manual: http://www.mediafire.com/file/mj7z81..._Catalogue.pdf

Owner's Manual: http://www.mediafire.com/file/nscb5f...ers+Manual.pdf

Last edited by Spockster; 03-20-2020 at 05:10 PM.
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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, what you described is not happening. The clutch spins like a fan would.

I'll have to dig in then. I just noticed a rattling sound coming from that side of the engine, seeming like it was a nut that spun off. At that point I killed the engine.

Thanks so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spockster View Post
It's looking like you should check.

Just to be sure... The clutch would move with a wrench, but you would feel the engine rolling up onto the compression stroke for each cylinder. "Spinning freely" sounds like that doesn't happen.

Going to look through the manual, but I'm pretty sure there's a gear connecting the clutch and crankshaft, versus the clutch being on the end of the crank.

Edit: Section 5-9, bottom right pic, there's the gear on the crank ahead of the clutch.
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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakob_rothfuss View Post
Yes, what you described is not happening. The clutch spins like a fan would.

I'll have to dig in then. I just noticed a rattling sound coming from that side of the engine, seeming like it was a nut that spun off. At that point I killed the engine.

Thanks so much.
Pretty sure someone had a broken bolt on that crank gear. Edited in a pic below.

You're welcome. Hope you get there.

2003-21k mi
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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 05:40 PM
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With the clutch cover off, you could spin the back wheel to see if the driveshaft is connected, since the clutch seems to be disconnected from the engine. In gear, the clutch would spin with the back wheel.

2003-21k mi
Shaved w/UniPK92+Stock Jets-TPE/MOSFET-Shinko Tires-AGM batt-bags-chrome-LEDs...more
__________________________________________________ ____________
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Owner's Manual: http://www.mediafire.com/file/nscb5f...ers+Manual.pdf
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