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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-03-2011, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Rusty tank cleaning (Acid method)

Rusty Tank Cleaning With Muriatic Acid


First, let me say this is not my photo. It didn't dawn on me to shoot a photo of my KZ tank before or after. I did this procedure before I was a member of VN750.com. I found this and the "after" photo below on another forum.


Stuff needed to do this procedure:

* 12 oz Muriatic acid (Home Depot, neighbor with a pool, etc)
* 2 cups Baking Soda (grocery store, wife's pantry, neighbors pantry, etc)
* 2, 8oz bottles of Naval Jelly (Home Depot-paint dept)
* 2 buckets
* Water hose (turned on)
* Heavy Duty Duct Tape
* Rubber Gloves, Goggles, old clothes with long sleeves or a smock
* blow drier or hair drier
* about 50 small steel nuts (about a 1/4" -3/8" outside diameter)
* some kind of magnet taped on the end of a stick


Do this procedure at your own risk. (Its a big world, and there's bound to be someone who "could" do something stupid, like burn all the hair off their wiener dog. I do watch AFV reruns nightly, so I know they are out there...)

This topic comes up periodically as barn stored bikes are discovered and acquired and the new owner shows up here needing help with their rusty tanks, so Iím going to once again, give my opinion with a little scientific (and I use that term loosely!) research to help calm the fears of using my method. First let me acknowledge the other methods that can be used, and state that I am not knocking those other methods. Iíve not used any other method, so I canít vouch for them, but others here have and have been successful with them. I chose to use this method over the others because I am somewhat impatient with a process that takes two or three days when I read that it can be done in three to four hours. OK, some might say you could dig a hole with a shovel or use dynamite. Trust me, the acid method is not dynamite! In fact, if youíve ever swam in anything larger than a kiddie pool, you have swam in various types of diluted chemicals, including muriatic acid.

Muriatic acid is used in just about every swimming pool periodically to help maintain the PH level of the water. A swimming pool PH level is ideally between 7.4 and 7.6 on a PH scale. Anything higher or lower than that scale causes all sorts of issues, including eye irritation and other things, including etching of the pool surfaces, corrosion of the plumbing, cloudy water etc. Often times when the hot sun starts depleting the chlorine in the pool and the added chlorine has to be increased, the PH levels start to creep up and muriatic acid has to be added to bring things back down to normal. This happens especially in pools where chlorine bleach is used instead of the powdered or cake crystals to chlorinate the pool water to fight bacteria etc. Most of the large commercial pools use chlorine bleach, so they also keep a supply of muriatic acid on hand to maintain the balance. If the pool water PH falls below the 7.4 level, the water becomes acidic and soda ash (baking soda) has to be added to neutralize the acidic water and bring the PH back up to normal levels. So, like I mentioned before, weíve probably all swam in dilutions of these various chemicals and other additives I donít care to mention or even think aboutÖ So, Iíve said all this to bring us to the discussion of using muriatic acid to clean a gas tankÖ

Yes, I recommend you at least wear old clothes you donít care about, or an apron of some sort, long sleeves and rubber gloves when doing the acid cleaning. And absolutely wear eye protection! We will be using the acid non-diluted so it is pretty powerful at this concentration, and the vapors are nasty, so do it outdoors and if possible keep the wind at your back or use a box fan to help keep from breathing the vapors. Do your preparation for disposing of the chemical FIRST! This way you have it all set up and ready so youíre not freaking out laterówishing you had. Youíll need two buckets, one to mix your neutralizer in and the other to flush your acid from the tank into. If one bucket is larger than the other, save the larger one to flush the tank in to. Mix one part baking soda into 10 parts water. Thatís approximately 1.6 cups baking soda into 1 gallon of water. You donít need to be overly precise here. If you have a 2 gallon bucket, fill it two thirds full and put 2 cups or so of baking soda in it and mix it up, and youíre good to go. Have your water hose ready to use and keep it nearby so you can rinse any leakage and such when necessary.

Iím not going to go into the specifics here about the etching process, because Iíve pasted the procedure below. This is about the cleanup process. Once youíve done the shaking of the tank with the acid and nuts in there and are ready to pull off the tape and start rinsing, rinse the acid-rust mixture into the empty bucket (you might need a larger bucket on the rinse side than the bucket you used to mix the baking soda in) until the yellowish orange colored stuff is done coming out of the tank. Shake the tank around with water in it to make sure you get all the areas of the tank rinsed out. If your bucket is getting full, you probably have all but tiny residuals of the acid rinsed out by now, and can let the flushed water run onto the ground, because at this point the dilution is probably less than splashing pool water onto the ground. At this point, you can tape the tank back up and do the first phase of the naval jelly treatment, and once you have shaken it up good and are ready to let it sit for a few minutes, you can come back to the acid for disposal.

Now, pour some of the neutralizer you mixed up in the other bucket, into the acid bucket. It might start to fizz up. This is normal as carbon dioxide is being released as the PH level is rising. Give it a few seconds and pour some more and repeat this process until it doesnít fizz anymore. If itís not fizzing, youíre probably in the 7.4 to 7.6 PH level with the mixture. If you have a pool water test kit, you can test it to be sure. If you are in the country and have a septic system, I would probably not put this down the drain because of the possibility that it might kill necessary bacteria in the septic tank. In this case, I would just take the bucket to a dirt or gravel area and pour it while further diluting with the garden hose. It is perfectly safe. If youíre in the city, you can pour it down the drain as you run the faucet to further dilute it.

SoÖ Hereís the full procedure:
After removing the tank, you need to flush it thoroughly with your garden hose. Really work hard to get everything you can out with water. You have to remove everything, petcock, fuel level sensor, gas cap etc. and tape up every opening with good quality duct tape. Use a handful, maybe 50 or so, small 1/4" steel nuts (not 1/4 inch threads, but small steel nuts that are about 1/4" outside diameter) and dump them into the tank. Carefully, pour about 12 oz of muriatic acid (they sell it at pool supply stores, or Home Depot) into the tank and tape up the gas cap hole and shake the tank vigorously for about 15 minutes. Keep the garden hose handy and rinse off any leakage immediately. (wear old clothes, rubber boots, rubber gloves and eye protection, maybe a smock if you have one) The acid and nuts will eat the rust off the tank inside. You might have to vent the pressure off the tank by lifting the tape around the gas cap hole every once in a while. You'll know when it bulges the tape. Keep rinsing the outer surface immediately if any acid leaks out around the tape. It will be the color of mustard so it's not going to be hard to see. After 10 minutes or so, remove the tape and let the acid drain from the bottom of the tank, into a plastic bucket that has a little water in it. This acid will etch the metal and your surface will be clean and rust free. Now rinse the tank very well, flushing it with the hose and shake it to make sure you get all the acid rinsed out. You can use a telescoping magnet pick up tool to get all the nuts out of the tank. (make sure the nuts are steel!)

Now tape the holes in the tank back up and pour two bottles of naval jelly into the tank. You need to do this immediately after you get the acid flushed out, as flash rust will start to form immediately on the untreated metal. Shake the tank for a minute or two and then let it set for 30 minutes. This is a good time to go back to the acid bucket and use the mixture of baking soda and water and add it slowly to the acid bucket to neutralize the acid. Youíll know it is neutralized when adding the baking soda/water mix to the acid doesnít fizz up. You can then dispose of it by one of the earlier mentioned methods. After itís been 30 minutes with the naval jelly in the tank, go shake it really good again making sure you turn it in all directions while you are shaking it to cover every surface in there. Do this on and off for 2 hours. Then rinse the naval jelly out by flushing it really well with the hose. Once clean, dry off the outside and rig a blow drier at the warm, not hot, setting and let it dry the inside of the tank. I taped the end of the blow drier to the filler opening with duct tape. The phosphoric acid in naval jelly will treat the metal and make it resistant to rust. Some similar procedures call for you to spray WD40 all around the inside of the tank and then do the drying with the blow dryer. I didn't do this, and really don't see a need for it. My results were stunning without the WD40 so you can do it if you want, but I didn't.

When I rinsed out the naval jelly and looked into the tank, I was absolutely shocked that it was so clean. Considering how brown, scaley and horrible looking it was inside, I really didn't think this would work and figured I'd be looking for a used tank. The results were like a bran new tank inside!


This is close to what my tank insides looked like after the treatment. Mine was actually cleaner and more shiny than this.

Since the day I did this procedure, my tank has been shiny silver inside. (I did this on my KZ1000P when I first bought it, and I sold it 1.5 years later and the tank was still nice and silver inside, no sign of rust!) The procedure I read online that made me want to try this is here. This guy has done this several times on various tanks and has had excellent results every time. It is important not to let the acid seep out around the tape and let it sit on the painted metal. It will ruin the paint pretty quickly. If you see leakage, use the garden hose to wash it off immediately and you won't have any paint damage. Just don't let it sit on there!

This method is admittedly a bit messy, but it isnít nearly as crazy or dangerous as some make it out to be. The one critical time is when you are opening the muriatic acid bottle and pouring 12 oz of it into a measuring cup or pitcher, and then pouring it into the tank. Do this carefully and donít let it splatter. And this is where itís kind of handy to have a breeze at your back! Think of it as if it were paint remover. You would be really careful not to get it on the paint so use the same mentality here. This step is where the vapors are strong, and believe me, you donít want to sniff it. I have, and it takes your breath away! By the way, Iím still alive, and I had a pool for years, and often got to sniff the vapors of muriatic acid when I was mixing it into pool water, so just keep that in mind. (of course some might argue thatís whatís wrong with me!) Once you have the acid in the tank and taped off, and are shaking it up like a mad person, the hardest and most dangerous part is over, other than your arms getting tired of shaking the tank. Wouldnít hurt to have a buddy to share the tank shaking duties with. One could man the garden hose to rinse any leakage while the other shakesÖ

Anyway, I hope this helps those of you who need to clean the rust, and would like to get erí done quickly, but are a little freaked out about using acid and such, to ease your mind a little about this process. And for those who donít mind the extra time it takes to do it, those other methods should work just fine.
Jumpingjerry likes this.

Fergy
Kyle, TX VN750.com member #707 VROC#19556
2002 VN1500 Classic
Spline Lube Procedure, with photos, R/R Relocation and Coil Mod
Rusty Tank Cleaning!
Electrical Fault Finding Flowchart
SEAFOAM JUNKIE!


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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-03-2011, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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I should have prefaced that with the note that I'm re-posting this since it was on my web pages and is no longer available. Someone was asking about rusty tank cleaning on the yahoo group and I realized that I had posted several links there to various procedures, this one included and had no way to send them to it so I changed all the links and added this here.

And yeah, it works wonders!

Fergy
Kyle, TX VN750.com member #707 VROC#19556
2002 VN1500 Classic
Spline Lube Procedure, with photos, R/R Relocation and Coil Mod
Rusty Tank Cleaning!
Electrical Fault Finding Flowchart
SEAFOAM JUNKIE!


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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-01-2011, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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Update! I like SIMPLE! I've always felt like putting something inside a fuel tank to seal it is a bad idea. What if the bond isn't as good as it is supposed to be and the stuff starts flaking off? YOU CAN'T SEE IN THERE! I've read several accounts where this has happened and then you've got even more of a mess than just rust! Here is a thread from VROC where a couple of members have had failures from both POR 15 and KREEM tank sealers.

Gas Tank help [message #160702] Wed, 16 March 2011 00:58 Go to next message
Popeye707 [VROC #32997] is currently offline Popeye707 [VROC #32997]
Messages: 112
Registered: October 2010
Location: Point Mugu, California

Anyone have any experience cleaning a failed POR-15 sealant from a fuel tank?

I cleaned, prepped, and sealed my tank per the instructions. Then, while working on the motor, was presented an opportunity to get the tank painted. When the tank was returned, it had been powder coated, not painted. It looks awesome, but the sealant is coming off in pieces...

Wondering what the best method would be to properly get my tank cleaned for good.


Popeye707
Pt Mugu, CA
'96 1500 Classic

- Re: Gas Tank help [message #160749 is a reply to message #160702 ] Wed, 16 March 2011 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
diablo [VROC #16131] is currently offline diablo [VROC #16131]
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Registered: May 2005
Location: Chandler, Arizona
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Wow, that's a mess. I had a failed sealing job using the Kreem tank
sealer several years ago, also after a paint job, this one being a
really expensive paint job. The Kreem was only used to insure no leaks
for the expensive paint job. So much for that.

I ended up flushing the tank over and over with gas, and agitating gas
in the tank. Used some wooden paint stir sticks to scrape the inside,
over and over. Even after It seamed I had everything, I had to clean
the strainer in the petcock every month or so for a year. It was a
mess. I vowed to never use a tank sealer again.

I also installed a really good fuel filter, it also caught tons of
junk that the petcock strainer didn't catch.

Brian



Brian WottlŤ
VROC #16131-R
SCRC #309006 Now a Nomad

2009 HD Ultra Classic


On Wed, 16 Mar 2011 04:58:28 GMT, "Popeye707 [VROC #32997]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>POR-15 sealant

- Re: Gas Tank help [message #160752 is a reply to message #160702 ] Wed, 16 March 2011 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Popeye707 [VROC #32997] is currently offline Popeye707 [VROC #32997]
Messages: 112
Registered: October 2010
Location: Point Mugu, California
Member

Sounds just lovely. I think I am going to do the BB's and diesel over and over until I get as much out as possible. May even rig up a little electric motor with a shaft to mount the tank on and roll it for hours on end... Then do either Rusteco or Metal Rescue on the inside.

My filter is just crammed full of crud, and the petcock was clogged too. My concern is the carb and the fuel pump, and mostly the fuel pump. I can clean the rest.

Popeye707
Pt Mugu, CA
'96 1500 Classic


- Re: Gas Tank help [message #162021 is a reply to message #160702 ] Mon, 21 March 2011 22:33 Go to previous message
EZ [VROC #288] is currently offline EZ [VROC #288]
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Registered: August 1997
Location: Ringgold, Georgia
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I can't believe that POR 15 failed. I've used it many times with great
results. I'd call POR 15 and see what they recommend. Maybe another dose
of Marine Clean would strip it back down to metal? Did you use the Metal
Ready after the Marine Clean?

--


So, while I said I wasn't going to knock those other methods, since I have never used them, I feel like there is a potential for even worse problems by using them and not keeping it SIMPLE... That's my 2 cents worth!

Fergy
Kyle, TX VN750.com member #707 VROC#19556
2002 VN1500 Classic
Spline Lube Procedure, with photos, R/R Relocation and Coil Mod
Rusty Tank Cleaning!
Electrical Fault Finding Flowchart
SEAFOAM JUNKIE!


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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-01-2011, 12:56 PM
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I was thinking about doing something like this with an old rotisserie motor & shaft from an old BBQ I had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBXZtLKMV2Q

JaY



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2002 VN750 Vulcan
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-06-2012, 08:03 PM
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Did this today.. Worked like a Charm.

Thanks Fergy!

Accomplishments;

Changed Final Drive Fluid
Iridium Plugs

NGK Spark Plug Wires
Bridgestone Spitfire Tires
Maintenance Free Battery
Lubed the Spline
Shaved and Coastered
Under Tank Air Filter
Re-Jetted
Vn900 Seat Mod w/ Honda 1100 Backrest
Rebuilt Petcock
Custom Mirrors
Custom SaddleBags
LED Taillight
Heads Up Voltage Monitor

Upcoming: Change front fork Seals & Oil, install highway pegs & floorboards
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-06-2012, 09:24 PM
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Just an affirmation: this is the way I always de-rust my tanks, and it does work like a charm...and he's right about the baking soda/clean-up preparation.

I also use a big package of BB's or slingshot ammo instead of the nuts, but the result is the same. You have to be sure to get them all out, though - I use one of those long-handled magnets like a parts-picker-upper for that.

In my version, I seal all the holes (petcock, etc.) and mix up a solution of about 1/3 to 1/2 bottle of Naval Jelly (available at Lowes for about $5) depending on the severity of rust, and water in a plastic milk jug; dump that into the tank, slosh it around to coat the inside and the fill the tank up with water, right up the fill-hole neck, and let it sit overnight with the cap on it loosely so it can out-gas if it needs to...then clean up as he listed above. It's awesome!
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2012, 11:09 PM
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This method works. I used this method a year ago and the tank looks as clean as the day I did it.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-01-2012, 03:02 PM
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J have the feeling I'll be doing this next week. I just boughta used tank at a suspiciously low price on Ebay. The paint is red, the cap is locked so he couldn't see inside but I suspect the inside color won't be too different from the outside color

Combatchuck

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Swingarm caps
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PM if you got these for sale


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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 01:03 AM
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Used this process today, took about 2 1/2 hours, the materials only cost me $23 in total and I have more than half a bottle of acid left (sugarcubes anyone?)... anyways, I bought the muriatic acid from Home Depot and instead of getting the full strength stuff in the garden section (which was $12 for what appeared to be 2 gallons) I went with the smaller "Safer Muriatic Acid" jug in the paint department for $8. Just letting you guys know that the "safer" stuff works really really well too, is cheaper, and you don't have too much extra sitting around.

2000 VN750(A16)
*Richmond, Va*

25,000 Miles
Jetted, Shaved, Coastered
New Petcock
New Fuel & Vacuum Lines
New Plugs
Spline Lube
ACCT to MCCT
New Oil in Final Drive
Acid & Naval Jelly'd Gas tank
Luggage Rack
Hard Saddle Bags
Extended b*%ch Seat

(time for a new rear tire and state inspection)
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 07:32 AM
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Anyone know if the muriatic acid will take off a tank lining, or should I look for something else? My buddy bought an Enfield last year and I noticed recently that his liner is peeling just under the fill nozzle.

I have no idea if the lining is kreem of POR, (or anything else) we just know that it needs to go.

......I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere then in any city on earth.

*2014 VN900 Custom (16,200 miles and counting)
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