20 minute death, then resurrection on hwy. - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
Carbs and Fuel System
From the gas tank to the carbs
All fuel system discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-26-2010, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
Love My Baby
 
rubyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hollywood, Florida
Posts: 1,165
iTrader: (1)
   
20 minute death, then resurrection on hwy.

Tonight I'm riding 75 mph on the Florida turnpike, near but not quite empty on gas. Slight sputter so I turn the petcock to Reserve. Doesn't help and I pull over to the shoulder as the engine dies. I pop open the gas cap to let it breath (in case of POOGS). It won't start. 20 minutes of trying, almost killed the battery. Then I call my dad to bring me some gas because I'm thinking it must be out. Just as I hang up I try one more time to start it up, and BANG, SHE STARTS RIGHT UP!!! Ride, home, fill the tank and charge the battery. Like nothing ever happened.

WHAT THE **** HAPPENED? Anyone able to help?

Rubyrick

MY BABY...
'05 VN750
16,000 miles +
Kawi tank bib
Kawi rear rack
Small windshield
DEKA M/F battery
VN750.com Grill Cover
LED license plate frame
Clear Alternatives LED brake light
Cortech mini tank bag on rear rack
Pirelli MT66 Tires: 110 front / 150 rear
Splines lubed when tires installed at 10,650 miles
Splines lubed again at 14,400 with stubby valve stem install

Place your mouse on the X below and drag to the O

X
Even though you can't see Him, GOD is there! O
rubyrick is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-26-2010, 10:46 PM
DelmarvaBiker
 
DelmarvaBiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Trappe, MD
Posts: 15
iTrader: (0)
 
Send a message via Yahoo to DelmarvaBiker
Same thing happen to me last month. Riding along low but not out of fuel and sputter, sputter, dies. I tried the reserve and no such luck on a refire. Sat on the side of the road for 15 minutes and she fired right up and has run fine ever since. I'd sure like to know what caused the sputter and die issue.

2003 VN750
DelmarvaBiker is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 09:26 AM
Senior Member
 
baldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St. Albans, Maine
Posts: 796
iTrader: (0)
 
It is possible that there was water in the bottom of the tank that finally got flushed through the carbs. One thing that I do, every time I am on the highway, I turn it to reserve to clear any water out of the tank. The higher speed and faster running fuel helps keep it from cutting out.

Other possibilities would be crud at the bottom got sucked to the reserve screen and after sitting the suction was released and was able to get fuel or the float got stuck down when the carbs were drained of fuel and then released after sitting. If the floats stuck down it would flood the engine and you would smell the fuel but after sitting it would evaporate enough to fire.

I would more likely think that it was water if you rarely turn it to reserve. Fuel additives help but there is a chance of getting a good dose of water when fueling up and you don't have any additive handy.

01' VN750
Jardine cross over exaust
Kyriakin grips and foot pegs
Modified seat and backrest
Windshield
Luggage rack
Crash bar with Kyriakin pegs and extensions
Kumho 758 165/80-15 CT rear Dunlop 404 110/90-19 front
Coastered and air/fuel screws at 2.5 turns
Spline lube

93' VN750 getting TLC
Decals and mirrors
Coastered and air/fuel screws at 2.5 turns
ACCTs to MCCTs
Degoated with Harley mufflers
Duro 110-90-19 front 150-90-15 rear
Pick-up coils at .020
Spline lube
baldy is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 09:54 AM
Undercover Sportbiker
 
AJCruzin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SoCal (SF Valley) 91343
Posts: 1,097
iTrader: (19)
 
Gas is on both sides of the tunnel. Typically, you can "run out of gas" but once it gets parked on the side stand, it miraculously fires back up. That's because, due to the lean angle, the gas gets sent over to the left side of the tank, by the petcock.

A good way to get an extra few blocks if you run out is to pull the choke. There's usually enough gas left in there to get you a little bit farther down the road.

AJCruzin is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 12:22 PM
Members who have donated towards server costs
 
Gemguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 812
iTrader: (1)
 
Water and crud notwithstanding, the same happened to me when I first got the bike and I realized that I waited a little too long to switch the petcock after I felt the sputter. At 75 you probably have less time. What I suspect is that as the fuel gets a little below the feed tube you suck some air into the fuel lines and break the suction between the tank and the carbs. After a while of standing there gravity does it's job and you again have a continuous flow.

2003 Wine/Gray VN750 bought in 2005 w/2000 Miles
LED Tail/Brakelight & License Plate Light;Chrome Inspection Sticker Plate ;Battery Charging Quick Plug;Kuryakyn LED Battery Voltmeter;Throttle Rocker Palm Rest;Optronics Driving Lamps;KnifeMaker Floor Boards;Halogen Headlamp Bulb;OEM Engine Guard;Iridium Spark Plugs;OEM Luggage rack;Stebel Air Horn;Handlebar Clock; Handlebar Thermometer; Sealed Battery; Marbled; Leather Grip Covers; Rectangular Mirrors

~VROC~ # 389
Gemguy is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 12:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 83
iTrader: (0)
 
Had the identical problem with mine. I tried all the fuel stuff and finally changed the Ignition switch.
When I opened it up all the contacts were burnt black. I believe this caused high resistance and heat which disapates with time. Then varoom, it starts right up.
The contacts can be cleaned but for myself I went with the new switch.
Oh by the way, haven't had any problems since then.

Joe
Desert Dog is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 04:59 PM
Old Fart
 
Knifemaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Catawissa, MO
Posts: 11,643
iTrader: (4)
     
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubyrick View Post

WHAT THE **** HAPPENED? Anyone able to help?

Sounds like the classic Phantom Out of Gas Syndrome. (POGS) Always seems to be just before you need to switch to reserve.

Many theroies have been posted, most concerning poor venting of the gas cap. Happened to me twice.

There is a very short window of oppertunity for when the bike begins to cough for gas and how quickly you switch over to reserve. Take a nano second too long and the bike dies, due to the float bowls emptying.
This then means you have to crank the bike several times just to fill the carbs again, and then wait for the battery to snap back.

The 2nd time I had this happen I just cranked her over 5-6 times and sat down and waited 15 minutes. Then walked back and she fired right up.


I believe the condtion is from a number of factors, venting being only one of them, fuel level the next and ambient tempature the 3rd.


As long as you have a good (AGM) battery, the bike always seems to fire up if you just wait a bit before trying again. Many suggest keeping a spare key in the gas cap so you can open it at the first hint of POGS. I never had the chance to check this fix out, but a few swear it will work.


KM

If You Are Not Sure If I Am Joking or Not....I AM !!Photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/knifemaker1954/sets/
Knifemaker is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 05:48 PM
Senior Member
 
cglennon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 734
iTrader: (0)
 
Send a message via Skype™ to cglennon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifemaker View Post
Sounds like the classic Phantom Out of Gas Syndrome. (POGS) Always seems to be just before you need to switch to reserve.
......
If it is POOGS then it will not go away until the gas cap vent and vent line have been cleaned. The process or cleaning them only takes 15 minutes and a yearly spray of carb cleaner down the vent tube should keep it from happening ever again. Below is my writeup on how I solved my POOGS problem.
I just went through this on my 06 (non-CA model), exact same situation too (stall at tank gas). Try this (again '06 non-CA model, other models and CA emissions may differ):

Step 1: Clean the gas cap vent tube:

1. Place a piece of paper in front of the REAR tire
2. Open the gas cap
3. Spray carb cleaner into the vent tube located on the tank, near the base of the gas cap hinge. Use the straw attachment for the spray can.
4. Observe the drips onto the piece of paper. Continue spraying until it runs clear.


Step 2: Clean the gas cap vent mechanism

1. Open the gas cap and remove the key.
2. Cover the tank inlet tube with tape or a piece of paper to prevent dropping things in the tank. I used a large PostIt note, which worked well.
3. Remove the two brass screws that hold the latch mechanism on the bottom of the gas cap.
4. Remove the latch mechanism. Note: there is a loose component in the base that covers the latch spring. Be careful not to drop it into the tank during removal. Inspect the latch, clean as necessary (chances are this is NOT where the problem is), then set aside.
5. Careful not to loose the 5 small springs mounted on posts under the latch mechanism. You can leave them where they are or remove them for safe keeping.
6. Before proceeding remove the small collar from the male latch connector (look for the round key cylinder). The collar acts like a bearing when opening and closing the latch using the key. It is loose and easily lost. Slip it off and put it aside for safe keeping.
7. Remove the two short screws at the base of the gas cap vent, but DO NOT yank the vent off yet.
8. The vent gasket is glued to the cap (at least it was on mine) and the vent assembly might be stuck to the gasket. GENTLY, wiggle the vent back and forth to loosen it and prevent damage to the gasket.
9. With the vent assembly removed, inspect the gasket for tears or bulges. Spray with carb cleaner (just a little) and wipe with a clean cloth. Inspect the cloth for signs of debris.
10. Now for the root of the problem; Remove the small round plastic check valve/liquid separator located on the underside of the vent assembly. GENTLY ply it out, careful not to damage the silicone valve covering the base of the check valve. Remove the gasket as well and place it aside. Inspect and clean the check valve, ESPECIALLY the tiny 90 degree elbow which leads to the vent hole. NOTE: there is another silicone valve cover permanently mounted in the gas cap vent itself (part of the pressure release part of the valve). DO NOT attempt to remove it or you will damage it. Just make sure it is clean and functioning.
11. Now check the vent hole. Hold the vent assembly up to the light and look up from where the plastic check valve was mounted. See any light where that tiny 90 degree elbow fits? Follow the vent channels on the opposite side of the vent assembly. Any blockage? Unplug the holes and clean the channels.
12. Reassemble.


Step 3: Repeat Step 1 frequently (at least once a year) to prevent this from happening again.

UPDATE 5/5/2010: My Phantom has been uncloaked! I took a closer look at where/how the rubber vent tube exits in front of the rear tire. I found that the tube had been (and still is) rubbing against the rear tire. The 'black fluffy carbon' blocking my vent was probably rubber shavings caused by the vent tube rubbing against the tire. I've temporarily rerouted the vent tube to exit along side the coolant overflow tube to eliminate the vent tube/tire rubbing. I still plan to flush the vent once a year to reduce the possibility of dirt and dust reaching and blocking the actual gas cap vent.


Chris Glennon - Portland, OR
cglennon is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 06:01 PM
IBEW 915 Electrician
 
hctublerub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Z-Hills, FL
Posts: 115
iTrader: (0)
 
Had a similar problem. I had my carbs cleaned and the tank drained and cleaned three months before this happened. Went riding and pulled back by the house to retrieve an item. About three minutes later I tried to start the bike and it wouldn't start, sounded bad, too. It took a wait of about 15 minutes before it was back to normal. No problems since.

'01 Vulcan 750
Irridium Plugs
MF Battery
hctublerub is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
Love My Baby
 
rubyrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hollywood, Florida
Posts: 1,165
iTrader: (1)
   
I'm thinking that at highway speeds my fuel cut off before I switched to reserve. That put air in the line and broke vacuum. Just took a while for gravity to let fuel back in and vent out the air.

QUESTION: Does opening the throttle send gas downstream if the engine is not running? If not, does it do so when the start button is depressed but before the engine starts?

Rubyrick

MY BABY...
'05 VN750
16,000 miles +
Kawi tank bib
Kawi rear rack
Small windshield
DEKA M/F battery
VN750.com Grill Cover
LED license plate frame
Clear Alternatives LED brake light
Cortech mini tank bag on rear rack
Pirelli MT66 Tires: 110 front / 150 rear
Splines lubed when tires installed at 10,650 miles
Splines lubed again at 14,400 with stubby valve stem install

Place your mouse on the X below and drag to the O

X
Even though you can't see Him, GOD is there! O
rubyrick is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Once registered, your User Name"cannot be changed". We can make exceptions within 7 days, but after that, it is set in stone.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome