Newb goes on Naval Maneuvers! - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
Carbs and Fuel System
From the gas tank to the carbs
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2009, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Newb goes on Naval Maneuvers!

Don't like sitting immobile again after a day of riding this week so I researched the rust rectification methods here and found three- Electrolysis, coatings, and the Naval Jelly method.

I am going to try all three and report on them eventually. But for today I am going w/ the Naval Jelly method because it's the fastest. It promises to make me drivable in three hours! The other two methods each take DAYS.

Here is my shopping list. I am heading out to pick it up.

50 1/4 steel nuts
12 oz. Muriatic Acid
Good quality duct tape
1 Small bottles Naval Jelly (Made by Loctite it appears)
Telescoping Magnet (optional)

And a bucket and garden house are also required. I have those on hand.

Will keep everyone posted how it all goes. Below is a cut and paste from Fergy's post with the instructions I am using.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fergy View Post

You have to remove everything, petcock, fuel level sensor, gas cap etc. and tape up every opening with good quality duct tape. Use a handful, maybe 50 or so, small 1/4" nuts and dump them into the tank. Carefully, pour about 12 oz of muriatic acid (they sell it at pool supply stores, or Home Depot) into the tank and tape up the gas cap hole and shake the tank vigorously for about 10 minutes. Keep the garden hose handy and rinse off any leakage immediately. (wear old clothes, rubber boots, rubber gloves and eye protection, maybe a smock if you have one) The acid and nuts will eat the rust off the tank inside. You might have to vent the pressure off the tank by lifting the tape around the gas cap hole every once in a while. You'll know when it bulges the tape. Keep rinsing the outer surface immediately if any acid leaks out around the tape. It will be the color of mustard so it's not going to be hard to see. After 10 minutes or so, remove the tape and let the acid drain from the bottom of the tank, into a plastic bucket full of water that you have added about a cup of baking soda. The baking soda will neutralize the acid. The writeup said to pour the acid on a patch of old concrete that you don't mind staining to neutralize it, but I prefer the baking soda method. Then you can pour the mixture in a gravel or dirt area and it will be fine. This acid will etch the metal and your surface will be clean and rust free. Now rinse the tank very well, flushing it with the hose and shake it to make sure you get all the acid rinsed out. You can use a telescoping magnet pick up tool to get all the nuts out of the tank. (make sure the nuts are steel!) Then tape it back up and pour two small bottles of naval jelley into the tank. You need to do this immediately after you get the acid flushed out, as rust will start to form immediately on the untreated metal. Shake the tank for a minute or two and then let it set for 30 minutes, then shake it again. Do this for 2 hours. Then rinse the naval jelley out by flushing it with the hose. Once clean, dry off the outside and rig a blow drier at the warm, not hot, setting and let it dry the inside of the tank. The phosphoric acid in naval jelley will treat the metal and make it resistant to rust. My tank has been silver inside since I used this to clean it.

It's messy to do, but it works very well, and doesn't leave a film inside the tank that you might have problems with later. This method might seem a little radical, and some of you might prefer not to mess with the acid, but it works very well.


Current VN: 03 VN1600A

Past VNs: 92 VN750A, 98 VN1500A

Future VN: 94/97 VN1500A basketcase/bobber
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2009, 12:35 PM
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Battery acid works too and you can save it, reuse it in other tanks. I've also heard that commercial grade vinegar (stronger than grocery store vinegar but don't know where to get it) works too but takes a few days in the tank.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2009, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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Oh yeah, it's working GREAT. Just about finished. It smells like new metal inside, I kid you not. Uploading pics right now but might not write it up right away. Going to bolt her up and ride!

Followed Fergy's instructions pretty much to a T with no problems. Wasn't really that bad if you don't mind getting a little wet. I also took apart and cleaned out my petcock (recently rebuilt so the diaphram and gaskets are all good) and there were chunks of crud in it as well. Quite a bit actually. More than you'd think for less than half a gallon of gas having gone through it!

So no doubt w/ the fresh tank interior and unobstructed petcock I should really be running strong here in a few minutes. Cleaning up the garage, hopping in the shower quick, and then it's MAGIC TIME.

Thanks to the site for the resources and knowledge. Nothing feels better than doing it yourself!


Current VN: 03 VN1600A

Past VNs: 92 VN750A, 98 VN1500A

Future VN: 94/97 VN1500A basketcase/bobber
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2009, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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OK, I've got a super slick clean tank with no rust and a rehabbed petcock as well... but not a running bike.

She turned over fine, I rode to the corner to top her off w/ clean gas and she barely started again. I limped her home somehow.

I'm guess that I have not solved the real problem. Only prevented it from happening again. There is certainly rusty chunks of guck in the carbs just like there was in the petcock. So I will have to take those apart and see if I can gingerly clean them just as I did the petcock.

Major bummer.

Folks, gotta address that rusty tank innards issue! I think I've been having problems with it for AGES. I really liked the muriatic acid/naval jelly approach and would recommend it to anyone who has enough space to get a little wet and work w/ some chemicals and not your grass or something. The back of my place is on an alley that is perfect for that kind of work.

Might try to take the carbs off yet tonight and tinker with them. Letting the engine cool down now and should make sure I have some carb cleaner and if not run to the store before they close.


Current VN: 03 VN1600A

Past VNs: 92 VN750A, 98 VN1500A

Future VN: 94/97 VN1500A basketcase/bobber
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-26-2009, 10:10 PM
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It really does an amazing job. The KZ I did it on was really bad inside, but didn't leak so I took a chance it wouldn't eat right through the tank. Inside it was reddish brown, and if you inserted your finger and rubbed anything, you would get a muddy smear on your finger and it felt rough as a cob. After the acid method, it was shiny silver inside and I never had a problem with it again. The inline filter was always clear and clean and the gas was now the correct color, kind of a light honey tint, as apposed to the red-orange it had been before. I am sure once you get the chunks out of your carbs you'll be in "high cotton"! Glad it worked for ya!

Fergy
Kyle, TX VN750.com member #707 VROC#19556
2002 VN1500 Classic
Spline Lube Procedure, with photos, R/R Relocation and Coil Mod
Rusty Tank Cleaning!
Electrical Fault Finding Flowchart
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-27-2009, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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Well I dug into the carbs and it made a world of difference. She now idles correctly and runs strong, makes power, and feels stable- not like she's gonna die any second. I can ride her to work (about 1.5 miles) which is nice.

However she's still not right. Idle is good. Low end is great. But in the middle of the powerband, especially under load, she sharts to hesitate and go "brap", 90-100% of it sounding like it's on the left (rear cylinder). If you can "brap" through that it will get past it and be strong on the top end it seems. (Didn't have a lot of chances to get it kicking that hard on my short ride.)

So my guess is I missed something on the rear carb? Does that make sense? I am thinking if I take it apart and clean that one again it could/should probably fix it, right? No sense in ****ing with the one that is working, or is there?

Could it be something else? Could I have messed something up when I was in the carbs that would make it do that- hesitate in the middle of the powerband?

I feel like I'm getting close!


Current VN: 03 VN1600A

Past VNs: 92 VN750A, 98 VN1500A

Future VN: 94/97 VN1500A basketcase/bobber
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-27-2009, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
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On Crobin's advice I took apart and cleaned the carbs again. I added compressed air to the mix with the carb cleaner AND I took the two carbs apart. Didn't really know they did that. But that's how you get to the floats. So I cleaned a section of it I didn't clean last time.

Bolted her back on and headed out for a test ride. It is starting to rain so it was a short ride, but from what I could tell she's 90-95% now. A lot of the 'brap' is gone and both sides sound the same now. Only had a little hiccup or two and that could be carb cleaner or whatever working it's way out.

Going to put a tank of gas through it and see how it does!

I have a Dyna 2000 CDI, irridiums and high performance spark plug wires on tap. Should FLY when I put all that on. But I would like her to be running strong with what I have before I swap that out.

Also I HIGHLY recommend the muriatic acid/Naval Jelly treatment. really not that tough at all and very effective and FAST all things considered. Took me a lot longer tearing down the carbs twice let me tell you!


Current VN: 03 VN1600A

Past VNs: 92 VN750A, 98 VN1500A

Future VN: 94/97 VN1500A basketcase/bobber
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-02-2009, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Finally posted the pics and wrote up my muriatic acid/Naval Jelly procedure. I was very impressed with it. A bit messy but quick, effective, and pretty cheap.

Going to try the electrolysis method next!



More pics at-

(starts at pic number 12)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6420610...7619279528406/


Current VN: 03 VN1600A

Past VNs: 92 VN750A, 98 VN1500A

Future VN: 94/97 VN1500A basketcase/bobber
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 08:15 AM
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my question: why not neutralize the acid while its still in the tank by adding baking soda? then you can pour out water and CO2 and not worry about tearing up your paint by dumping acid out of the tank.

perhaps theres a reason to not do this though?
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 09:36 AM
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Probably would work, but I didn't have any problems with the acid "staying" on the tank exterior since I was rinsing the tank as I dumped the acid into the 5 gallon bucket that already had some water in it. I just removed the tape off the petcock opening and sat that end of the tank over the bucket and removed the tape off the gas cap, and let it drain as I ran water into the tank and over the outside of the tank keeping it clean from acid. Then I added the baking soda to the 5 gallon bucket to neutralize the acid.

Hey Krebsne, would you mind sharing the photos and your writeup with me so I can post it on my website? I think it would be a nice addition. Let me know!

Fergy
Kyle, TX VN750.com member #707 VROC#19556
2002 VN1500 Classic
Spline Lube Procedure, with photos, R/R Relocation and Coil Mod
Rusty Tank Cleaning!
Electrical Fault Finding Flowchart
SEAFOAM JUNKIE!


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