stator winding coat melting temperature - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
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stator winding coat melting temperature

This is a simple question that probably doesn't have a simple answer... How hot does a VN750 stator have to get to melt the "plasticoat" covering on the windings?

Motivation for the question... I've got an '06 VN750 that eats stators for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. MOSFET R/R, TPE stators (have eaten three in as many years), AGM battery in good condition and on a maintenance charger if the bike sits longer than two weeks without being ridden.

The stators are being cooked to death. The last one I removed left gray deposits all over the inside of the rotating magnet assembly, not to mention the rest of the engine: frequent oil and filter changes got most of the residue out of the engine, but frankly, I'm scared what I'll find if/when I finally resort to a complete teardown :-(. Engine temperature is normally no more than "center post" on the gauge, but hot Texas summers push the limits of what I've decided is a puny cooling system. Even with a 160-degree Honda automotive thermostat (per a recommendation I found elsewhere on this forum site), getting caught in slow-moving traffic pushes the temperature above center post, and the cooling fan can barely keep up with the heat load: temperature stabilizes about 1.5 needle widths above center post.

It's unacceptable to have to consider a stator to be a consumable item requiring annual replacement. The one currently in the bike is in the early stages of failure: measuring the AC voltages across the various combinations of A1, A2, and A3, I get 19 VAC at 900 rpm across every combination except one, which gives me a paltry 7 VAC. Discovered the impending failure by noticing the voltage across the battery dipping below 12V at idle, which doesn't happen when things are working right unless the radiator fan is running (in which case, I've seen the voltage drop to as low as 11.5V at idle).

At highway speeds, I've *never* seen the 14.5V across the battery that many of you insist is normal. I might occasionally see 14V, but 13.5V is more typical.

Any insight as to what's going on would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 06:40 PM
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I dont know what the melt temp of the coating is, but the stator is cooled by oil, so the water temp wont have much effect on it.

maybe an oil cooler added to your bike might help. also have seen a mod that will sorta spray oil on to the stator.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 06:58 PM
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What oil are you using, and how much?

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Castrol Actevo 20W-50 part synthetic. Fill is to midpoint on sight glass with bike level. Have tried Shell Rotella T-6 full synthetic in the past (certified for motorcycle use). Brand and type of oil doesn't seem to make any difference. Mileage is a rock-solid 45+ mpg on the highway, which compares favorably with the Honda VTX1300C it has no problem keeping up with :-).
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-06-2016, 08:48 PM
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Can't answer the temp question, but have an odd question of my own. When you're down in low speed traffic, it's hot, fan is running... Do you ever hear a low growl or hum from the area of the stator?

I've been thinking the crazy Junction Box could be a major contributor to stator failure.

Right now I'm thinking of wiring in a separate relay to remove that function from the JB, cost should be $5-7. That will make all three relays in the JB that I've bypassed. Though I'm not 100% sure at the moment if the headlight relay is disabled by the Blue Wire Mod, I do have the mod.

Two-Wire Mod = eliminates the JB start relay and can cure brownouts.
Blue Wire Mod - allows you to eliminate the AC volt trigger for the headlight relay Maybe bypasses that JB relay.
Fan Relay Mod - eliminates fan relay in the JB

I have a 2yr old TPE/MOSFET setup and recently began having low volt situations when hot with the fan on in traffic. Everything seems fine until the fan kicks on, get moving to shut the fan off and the volts return to normal. During low volts, the engine runs like the ignition system is malfunctioning. Volts are dropping more than usual during fan operation.

We've had a really hot summer up here, I'd say our temps have been equal to yours in Texas. 95-98 for several weeks.

I've never been a fan of putting a 160 thermostat in anything. After warmup, the 160 will never close in warmer weather, and if the engine could actually maintain 160, that's below normal operating temp.

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Last edited by Spockster; 09-07-2016 at 10:39 AM.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spockster View Post
I'm not 100% sure at the moment if the headlight relay is disabled by the Blue Wire Mod, I do have the mod.

Blue Wire Mod - eliminates the AC volt trigger for the headlight relay Maybe bypasses that JB relay.
The standard blue wire mod (just moving the one wire) re-routes the current for the headlight so that it bypasses the headlight relay, but it does not eliminate the AC volt trigger for the headlight relay. The relay at that point is still very much a part of the active circuitry, and a faulty relay can still cause problems. You need to disconnect the yellow wire from the stator to pin 9 of the JB and pull out the headlight fuse to get it as isolated as possible. That leaves the relay only connected to ground on pin 13, which should be pretty benign, and disconnecting that would require opening up the JB and cutting traces on the circuit board.

Happy to discuss more in the blue wire mod thread to avoid hijacking this thread.
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Last edited by Thorn; 09-08-2016 at 12:25 AM. Reason: fixed wording about what gets bypassed. Thanks Spockster.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
The standard blue wire mod (just moving the one wire) re-routes the current for the headlight so that it bypasses the headlight, but it does not eliminate the AC volt trigger for the headlight relay. The relay at that point is still very much a part of the active circuitry, and a faulty relay can still cause problems. You need to disconnect the yellow wire from the stator to pin 9 of the JB and pull out the headlight fuse to get it as isolated as possible. That leaves the relay only connected to ground on pin 13, which should be pretty benign, and disconnecting that would require opening up the JB and cutting traces on the circuit board.

Happy to discuss more in the blue wire mod thread to avoid hijacking this thread.
Well I thought it was relevant to the point of stator longevity.

Got my wires crossed, I clipped the yellow wire off the stator harness when r/r was changed. I''l edit that post.

Just one clarification and I'll butt out....

Quote:
moving the one wire) re-routes the current for the headlight so that it bypasses the headlight,
Bypasses which? Headlight or relay? Reads like it would disable the headlight.

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Shaved w/UniPK92+Stock Jets-TPE/MOSFET-Shinko Tires-AGM batt-bags-chrome-LEDs...more
__________________________________________________ ____________
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Owner's Manual: http://www.mediafire.com/file/nscb5f...ers+Manual.pdf
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spockster View Post
Can't answer the temp question, but have an odd question of my own. When you're down in low speed traffic, it's hot, fan is running... Do you ever hear a low growl or hum from the area of the stator?

I've been thinking the crazy Junction Box could be a major contributor to stator failure.
If the stator is making noise, I can't hear it over the rest of the noise the engine makes. Problem is worse lately because of presumed partially clogged oil passages due to previous stator failure as mentioned: got a bit of lifter clatter at other than low idle and cruising RPMs. On the other hand, that might be the tensioners leading me down another rabbit hole I don't want to explore at the present time :-(. Exhaust has a pleasant but noisy note as well. Bottom line, if the stator is/was making any noise due to excessive load, I'd never hear it with my modular helmet on. I might be able to pick that particular signal out of the noise if I were wearing a skid lid, but I need to preserve what hearing I have left (musician).

Saw other posts where the JB is being implicated in all kinds of problems, including stator failure. I did the blue wire mod about two years ago, and it seemed to help at the time. Tempted to try the two-wire mod as well, just because I don't see how it can hurt anything to remove a redundant (?) relay from the starting circuit.

As far as the "spray oil on the stator" mod I saw elsewhere, my hat's off to the guy with the patience and desperation to accomplish it :-). I'm that desperate, but don't feel comfortable tapping into the external oil line that way.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 12:25 PM
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The JB start relay is definitely redundant. The Two-Wire has helped on bikes with good components, but with your stator reading low, I'm not sure. It's free to try. simple to do, and can't hurt.

I'm thinking this growl noise may indicate an increase in eddy current, which produces heat right on the stator. One guy that could address this better than myself, no longer posts here. Though I half-assedly suspect the JB is somehow causing an increase in eddy on the stator.

With enough eddy current, copper will glow from the heat, and no amount of hot oil will cool it to an acceptable level.

I can actually hear the engine better with the modular/ff helmet than my shorty, at least while moving. I noticed the growl more at a stop or just taking off.

2003-21k mi
Shaved w/UniPK92+Stock Jets-TPE/MOSFET-Shinko Tires-AGM batt-bags-chrome-LEDs...more
__________________________________________________ ____________
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Owner's Manual: http://www.mediafire.com/file/nscb5f...ers+Manual.pdf
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-07-2016, 12:51 PM
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Can you describe how the coating looked in your oil?

I just want to be on the lookout.

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Shaved w/UniPK92+Stock Jets-TPE/MOSFET-Shinko Tires-AGM batt-bags-chrome-LEDs...more
__________________________________________________ ____________
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