What's your stator got? - Page 4 - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
Electrical
Where does this wire go?
Includes Electrical mods, Lights, Stator,
Rectifier, Diagrams, etc

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post #31 of 69 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlHossCanada View Post
Hey th, what gauge are the 3 yellow wires from the stator? I remember comparing them to some wire of known gauge a few years ago. I concluded that they were only 18 ga. Does that sound right to you?

While we are on this subject, do you recall what gauge other wiring in the vn harness was? ie. especially high draw circuits like headlights.

Other than the cable from the solenoid to the starter motor, is there any wire in the harness that is larger than 18ga?

Is there any that is smaller?

What gauge wire did you use when building your simplified harness?

How does one differentiate between junk wire and quality wire?

For example does multi strand 18 ga wire, produced by different manufacturers, all have the same number of strands?

Or does a higher quality wire have more, but finer, strands?

What about insulation? Plastic or rubber, is one better than the other? I have some spools of wire with plastic insulation purchased at Princess Auto ( a Canadian discount parts supplier, similar to Harbor Freight in the US, I believe).

How do I judge the quality of this wire and insulation?

18 gauge will do just fine. The main things about wire, though, rather than the innards of twisted strand, are the insulation. Twisted strand is going to be an 18 awg wire if they use fewer, or if they use more. The fewer will be more expensive and have less resistance, but you probably won't find much difference between the two especially at short distances of under a few feet like on a bike. You'd need a device known as a "whetstone bridge" to even measure the difference.

As per insulation, consider your spark plug cables. They are pretty thin, but they have enough juice in them to jump a spark gap. The insulation gets old just like tire rubber does. High voltage wires like to arc. Spark plug cables are exactly that, high voltage upwards of 30,000 volts or more. Voltage is all about potential. Current is all about work.

The rest of the bike, consider for example, the headlight, those wires need to carry 5 amps of juice to and fro. Now even though that's a lot of juice, it's only at 12 volts. It's not likely to jump out of its casing between wires at all, unless . . . those wires start to rub their casing away until they actually touch another wire in the harness. And so there is the real reason to upgrade wires with good insulation, but there is more too... Consider anything thing that is aluminum. For example, our infamous engine ground. Are you aware that every single time any electrical connection with aluminum is present, it will grow and shrink at the contacts? That's the reason why aluminum wire was so short lived in the housing industry... ( got a smoke? )

The final consideration is if a wire is too thick to solder. If you crimp all your edges and that's fine with you. Okies, then. but.. copper and "crimps" is always going to be yet another case of two different metals reacting with each other over time. The best solution is to solder a crimp connection if you use them, and that's where a gauge like 12 awg is going to have you pulling out your hair unless you've got a powerful soldering iron ( 65+ watts ).

By the way, the stator wires, since they are running AC, they should be twisted if you want to squeeze the best you can out of the stator ( i mean twisted like twisted pair ).

And so the answer is truly "it all depends on what each and every wire is being used for".

1987 VN750 California - "Lydia"
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post #32 of 69 (permalink) Old 04-30-2016, 01:52 PM
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I'm not sure if you're genuinely asking, or asking for fun, but hey...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlHossCanada View Post
Hey th, what gauge are the 3 yellow wires from the stator? I remember comparing them to some wire of known gauge a few years ago. I concluded that they were only 18 ga. Does that sound right to you?
As far as the stator's wire size, I'd have to check if I have a stock stator anywhere. I have 2 TPEs and i think he went up a size. I would assume ma-kaw used limited sizes out of cost/etc.

While we are on this subject, do you recall what gauge other wiring in the vn harness was? ie. especially high draw circuits like headlights.
You're probably right that most are 18ga, though I haven't exactly checked. Sounds right based on memory.

Other than the cable from the solenoid to the starter motor, is there any wire in the harness that is larger than 18ga?
I'd have to pull my old harness, but I thought there were two sizes used throughout the harness? 22/20 and 18 probably. Again, I'm just sitting at my PC without it in front of me going off memory.

Is there any that is smaller?
Neutral safety switch sense wire off the top of my head. It's tiny.

What gauge wire did you use when building your simplified harness?
Stock harness currently. That will change soon though when I'm done poking at my car. It will depend on the wire but I'll probably go bigger than needed with something like 14 for the majority of it. Starter will end up with something like a nice 4ga welding cable.

How does one differentiate between junk wire and quality wire?
If it says CCA, run away. That stands for Copper-clad aluminium, which is not pure copper as you can tell. Resistance is almost twice that of pure copper if I recall correctly. Lots of audio wire is that stuff. As you mention later, insulation is also a big thing. We're working on vehicles that are outdoors, have oil, gas and heat exposed to the wire, it needs to be able to handle that.

For example does multi strand 18 ga wire, produced by different manufacturers, all have the same number of strands?
Will vary my manufacturer.

Or does a higher quality wire have more, but finer, strands?
For automotive/motorcycle applications, I always go for a high strand count. More flexibility, so it will last longer to vibration/etc. A solid core wire will carry some serious power. The power lines in your house are all solid core cable. They aren't exactly flexible, and if you bend it in one spot a bunch, it will break internally.

The quality of wire is dictated by the use of pure copper, and the quality of their insulation. Also making sure they're the real size, some people sell 4ga wire that really is 8ga with thick insulation.

What about insulation? Plastic or rubber, is one better than the other? I have some spools of wire with plastic insulation purchased at Princess Auto ( a Canadian discount parts supplier, similar to Harbor Freight in the US, I believe).

How do I judge the quality of this wire and insulation?
Should be cable to compare the UL markings with this PDF http://www.ul.com/global/documents/o...2007_Final.pdf

This site has some details on the various types of insulation used in automotive applications. Types of insulation used on automotive wire | American Autowire

1986 Kawasaki Vulcan 750
NGK Iridium Plugs #7803/DPR7EIX-9
Duralast Gold ETX15 AGM Battery
Coastered & Shaved
TOC MCCTs
Metzeler ME880 [110/90-19, 170/80-15]
Balance Dampers Replaced
Tuxedo Mod
Rebuilt Forks w/ Progressive Springs
V&H Cruzers
VN750.com Grill Cover
Meanstreak Seat
Emgo 23-92411 Handlebars
MOSFET FH012AA R/R


1990 Kawasaki Vulcan 750

1998 Honda VFR800 FI

2014 Honda VFR800F

1989 Pontiac Firebird Formula 350

Last edited by thtanner; 04-30-2016 at 06:26 PM. Reason: Spelling (sure/pure)
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post #33 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-01-2016, 11:22 AM
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http://www.sunforceproducts.com/Supp...ctionTable.pdf



So,Roadhopper, in some other post somewhere you answered my questions?

I asked you what's wrong with heatsinks, couldn't find that.

I asked if there was some electrical device out there that could be used as a voltage regulator and rectifier instead of the stock or MOSFET units (that doesn't produce heat)... Didn't see that either.

"This has nothing to do with "ranges". This has everything to do with data collection and specifically about the VN750"

To what end?
I asked what use having a bunch of figures on different members stator out put would be?

If three members are getting 38 vac @ 4000 rpms, four are getting 42 vac, six are getting 50 vac, what does this mean? Is there something wrong with those three bikes, or is the six that are getting 50 close to burning out? Do we know anything about what these figures really mean?
If all the bikes run fine and their batteries are getting charged, does it matter which has slightly higher or lower figures. Do you know? How is this information going to be helpful?
That's all I wanted to know.... From what I see, you might as well be asking what eye color members have, as I fail to understand what use it will be.

I'll go look again for your answers in some other thread, but I really don't remember seeing them.

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post #34 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-01-2016, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Sure glad you don't work in either a scientific field nor the insurance industry.

To what end? I think it might be easier to just ask you, to what end does it matter to answer your questions? They are all clearly off topic. But let's see...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifemaker View Post
http://www.sunforceproducts.com/Supp...ctionTable.pdf

So,Roadhopper, in some other post somewhere you answered my questions? Yes.

I asked you what's wrong with heatsinks, couldn't find that.
You like heatsinks? If so, that's wrong. But it's your choice. I suppose if you had a matching set all chromed up and relocated in the right place, it might get you laid on a Saturday night in Venice, but who knows what you do with your bike, or what you use it for? ( shruggs ).


I asked if there was some electrical device out there that could be used as a voltage regulator and rectifier instead of the stock or MOSFET units (that doesn't produce heat)... Didn't see that either.Your question has missed the entire point, and no, i don't feel like rewriting it all for your pleasure in a quick thread that was intended to collect raw data. Sorry. .

"This has nothing to do with "ranges". This has everything to do with data collection and specifically about the VN750"

To what end?Towards the goal that was mentioned in the OP..
I asked what use having a bunch of figures on different members stator out put would be?Maybe you did, but it's not my day to provide you with a free education on statistical method analysis, quality control, or ethics in design. You might try here, though, but they'll charge you for the answer. Your a rich kid though, right? Why ask a stupid biker then? Ask the experts..

If three members are getting 38 vac @ 4000 rpms, four are getting 42 vac, six are getting 50 vac, what does this mean?
Your question lacks sufficient data to come to any conclusion. In particular is the dangling improper mathematical regard to "mean" on the end of a logical predicate of "if", and specifically in that regard, you have failed to state "to whom", nor have you demonstrated you even comprehend the concept of "vac" in the first place. Therefore, who cares what the answer would be since it is more probable that your question is only asked to be irritating instead of actually needing information to which an answer would be helpful to you, or anyone else that would waste their time reading it?

Is there something wrong with those three bikes, or is the six that are getting 50 close to burning out? Do we know anything about what these figures really mean? Oh... that's rich, KM. In other words, you lack enough data on the topic to come to any conclusion, right? Hmmm, well my advice to you is to open up a thread and ask nicely and maybe, just maybe, people might spend a little time making a measurement for you, you know?


If all the bikes run fine and their batteries are getting charged, does it matter which has slightly higher or lower figures. Do you know? How is this information going to be helpful?
That's all I wanted to know.... From what I see, you might as well be asking what eye color members have, as I fail to understand what use it will be. That's hilarious. You mean, you actually believe that eye color has no bearing on motorcyles in general? Nor the VN750 in particular? I am laughing my ass off reading that. But... that's okay, like i said before, it's not my day to provide you with a free education and you were just trying to come up with something off the cuff anyway... lol too funny... you don't know about eye color and motorcycles... HAHAHahahaha


I'll go look again for your answers in some other thread, but I really don't remember seeing them. Just a guess on my part, but that's probably because you didn't read them. But who knows? o.O
Since your a mod, i don't see any reason to provide you with this link since your an expert on this site and will probably take offense to my giving it to you, but nevertheless...

https://www.vn750.com/forum/70-projec...ulcanland.html


Hope that helps

1987 VN750 California - "Lydia"
Reupholstered leather seat w/matching lockbox.
Rebuilt battery cage
Relocated R/R
AGM battery
Murican MCCT
Redesigned Rear - LED Tag/Signals/Harness
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post #35 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-01-2016, 03:31 PM
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post #36 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-02-2016, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
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I'll betya a dog and pony show that Th's are tanner.


1987 VN750 California - "Lydia"
Reupholstered leather seat w/matching lockbox.
Rebuilt battery cage
Relocated R/R
AGM battery
Murican MCCT
Redesigned Rear - LED Tag/Signals/Harness
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post #37 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-02-2016, 11:13 AM
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I'd think that if you are planning on designing a new R/R, you'd have a basic understand of battery voltages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadHopper View Post
12.5v without any load on it? That battery is basically dead. It ought to be at least 14v open load. If you turn the key on, it should be at least 13.2v ( i.e. with various lights on, depending )
When you make statements like that, it's no wonder people have inherent doubt. Just understand that nobody is doing it from malice, at least from what I can tell; I'm not.

1986 Kawasaki Vulcan 750
NGK Iridium Plugs #7803/DPR7EIX-9
Duralast Gold ETX15 AGM Battery
Coastered & Shaved
TOC MCCTs
Metzeler ME880 [110/90-19, 170/80-15]
Balance Dampers Replaced
Tuxedo Mod
Rebuilt Forks w/ Progressive Springs
V&H Cruzers
VN750.com Grill Cover
Meanstreak Seat
Emgo 23-92411 Handlebars
MOSFET FH012AA R/R


1990 Kawasaki Vulcan 750

1998 Honda VFR800 FI

2014 Honda VFR800F

1989 Pontiac Firebird Formula 350

Last edited by thtanner; 05-02-2016 at 11:16 AM.
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post #38 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-02-2016, 11:39 AM
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Well, if you don't know the answer, just have the decency to say "I don't know"

I gave you a scenario where 13 members gave you stator figures from their bikes and again asked, "what good is this?"
Your reply was "there isn't enough data". Really? Have you noticed that no one else so far has posted any data from their bike and oddly, I'm the only one that has? You'll be lucky to get half that number of folks here to post up their stator numbers.

I did read your electronic treatise, well, as much as I could. Some of it was well known information here, some just difficult to follow for someone with little electronics background .... Saw something about heatsinks, but I guessed I missed why they are bad or why 10 million electronic devices in the world still use them.

I didn't know I was rich. But yes, I do have a job...a whole 12 bucks an hour. Not sure why I am supposed to pay for information, other than the fact that you can't provide it. You say it be too much trouble for you, funny after that other 20,000 word essay of yours you can't squeeze out one more line?

I tried to ask legitimate questions here and you appearently decided to be a jerk rather than help someone who lacks your electronic know how understand what your trying to do.
I have to agree with Vulcan 2000 when he wrote:
"The only advice I pass on is that you take on this project for your own satisfaction and not because the readers want it."

I don't think you're stupid biker. You seem very knowledgable....but I do question your use of the term "biker"... I was under the impression this was your first bike (and I couldn't find your introduction in the newbie section....did you make one?)

Well, good luck with whatever the heck you plan on doing. Admittedly it seems like a waste of what time you claim you have left. I'd rather be riding... As I'm just glad I have a bike that works, and I can go ride it when I want.

Guess that's what makes me rich......


And no malice here either...I just don't get it.

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post #39 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-02-2016, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thtanner View Post
I'd think that if you are planning on designing a new R/R, you'd have a basic understand of battery voltages.



When you make statements like that, it's no wonder people have inherent doubt. Just understand that nobody is doing it from malice, at least from what I can tell; I'm not.
My battery is sitting right here. I measured it. By the way, my R/R circuit design is completed as of last night. Here's a sneeky peeky:
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1987 VN750 California - "Lydia"
Reupholstered leather seat w/matching lockbox.
Rebuilt battery cage
Relocated R/R
AGM battery
Murican MCCT
Redesigned Rear - LED Tag/Signals/Harness
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post #40 of 69 (permalink) Old 05-02-2016, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thtanner View Post
I'd think that if you are planning on designing a new R/R, you'd have a basic understand of battery voltages.



When you make statements like that, it's no wonder people have inherent doubt. Just understand that nobody is doing it from malice, at least from what I can tell; I'm not.
Yeah, from what I understand, 12v batteries like ours have 6 plates/banks/things. Each "thing" holds 2.1v, so 12.6v is full.
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