Redundancy solenoid - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 04:40 AM Thread Starter
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Redundancy solenoid

Ok after studying the schematics on the starting circuit battery side of the cranking solenoid I discovered that there is a smaller solenoid or relay inside the junction box. Not sure why they have done that, but just for cranking and getting my bike running, can I not by-pass the junction box and jumper the black/red strip starter wire to the yellow/red starter wire going to the cranking solenoid.

This seems that it would work. I see it is tied into another circuit for a safety circuit but I am not using that right now right now, just trying to get the bike running.

Any suggestions, ideas?

Grace!
Richard
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 08:18 AM
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this thread

https://www.vn750.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41530

last post is how my vn750 right now.

I was having intermittent failures of the relay in Junction Box (or other safety switch in system).

2005 VN750

Sold 11-27-17
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-18-2014, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrseedsower View Post
there is a smaller solenoid or relay inside the junction box. Not sure why they have done that, but just for cranking and getting my bike running, can I not by-pass the junction box and jumper the black/red strip starter wire to the yellow/red starter wire going to the cranking solenoid.



Any suggestions, ideas?

Grace!
Richard
Relay's are typically used to save the switch/wiring. In this case, the starter button and 4 ft of wiring..

You could jump from bat pos to the switch terminal on the starter solenoid.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 04:45 AM Thread Starter
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I am not trying to bash what wmsonta is saying but actually after studying the circuit it has nothing to do with the switch or the wire, it has to do with the safety features that is connected to the starting circuit. If you will follow the circuit through you will find that the coil side of the relay in the junction box has to make ground in order for the circuit to be completed thus causing the solenoid in the relay to energize and switch the switch or voltage to the starter solenoid. If you will follow the black w/red strip it goes to the JB and then comes out yellow w/red strip going to the starting solenoid. Both wires are the same diameter, but the insulation jacket is thicker on the black wire than on the yellow thus making the appearance to be bigger on the black than on the yellow.

It is a good concept of saving wire but it is for a safety feature not saving wire. I have been an electronic tech for 22 years and owned my on Pro Audio shop for 14 years where we use relays (solenoids) on an everyday basis. This on the bike is the same just different.

I have been riding bikes for over 30 years. Before I crank any bike on instinct I either pull in the clutch or put it in neutral to crank the bike and after almost going down the side of a mountain I am careful to put up the kickstand. But for those who are careless or new I don't recommend bypassing the safety features and get another junction box.

wmsonta is correct when saving things are concern but it isn't in this case. What a relay generally does is it takes a smaller wire with smaller voltage to switch a larger voltage, for example. If you want to apply 220 volts ac but you don't want to put a 220 volt ac switch which is more costly, you put a relay in place with a smaller switch that will work with say 5 volts dc. It will do the same, but cost less.

Grace!
Richard

Last edited by mrseedsower; 07-20-2014 at 04:55 AM.
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrseedsower View Post
I am not trying to bash what wmsonta is saying but actually after studying the circuit it has nothing to do with the switch or the wire, it has to do with the safety features that is connected to the starting circuit. If you will follow the circuit through you will find that the coil side of the relay in the junction box has to make ground in order for the circuit to be completed thus causing the solenoid in the relay to energize and switch the switch or voltage to the starter solenoid. If you will follow the black w/red strip it goes to the JB and then comes out yellow w/red strip going to the starting solenoid. Both wires are the same diameter, but the insulation jacket is thicker on the black wire than on the yellow thus making the appearance to be bigger on the black than on the yellow.

It is a good concept of saving wire but it is for a safety feature not saving wire. I have been an electronic tech for 22 years and owned my on Pro Audio shop for 14 years where we use relays (solenoids) on an everyday basis. This on the bike is the same just different.

I have been riding bikes for over 30 years. Before I crank any bike on instinct I either pull in the clutch or put it in neutral to crank the bike and after almost going down the side of a mountain I am careful to put up the kickstand. But for those who are careless or new I don't recommend bypassing the safety features and get another junction box.

wmsonta is correct when saving things are concern but it isn't in this case. What a relay generally does is it takes a smaller wire with smaller voltage to switch a larger voltage, for example. If you want to apply 220 volts ac but you don't want to put a 220 volt ac switch which is more costly, you put a relay in place with a smaller switch that will work with say 5 volts dc. It will do the same, but cost less.

Grace!
Richard
That is all fine and good.

The starter solenoid has its own dedicated ground, all the safety devises could have been in that ground circuit.

The truth is, whenever you have a key on only push switch (start button), you do not want much unnecessary amperage going though them (ign switch, start button). A relay is almost always used.

I stand by my previous post. JMO.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmsonta View Post
That is all fine and good.

The starter solenoid has its own dedicated ground, all the safety devises could have been in that ground circuit.

The truth is, whenever you have a key on only push switch (start button), you do not want much unnecessary amperage going though them (ign switch, start button). A relay is almost always used.

I stand by my previous post. JMO.
Actually two relays are needed when you have switches to interrupt both power and ground.

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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-21-2014, 06:08 AM Thread Starter
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wmsonta you might right. I didn't put that into consideration due to I am using a lawn mower solenoid to crank my bike and its ground is the mounting plate. Sorry I jumped the gun on that one.
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