Hard cold start, Ignition relay mod?? - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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Hard cold start, Ignition relay mod??

Guys, I know that this title is somewhat abused and I'm not trying to duplicate it. I know that the problem isn't fuel, the choke, throttle, etc are all working fine. After I crank it for a bit, you can smell raw fuel which leads me to believe that the problem is a weak spark (runs fine when warmed up). Everything is still factory and the battery is on a trickle charger whenever I'm not riding.

I am planning on making a few mods over the coming weeks that may help with this problem, but want to make sure that I'm barking up the right tree:

Coastering/Marbleing: I haven't decided which one I want to do, I have a piece of 1/4" aluminum bar which is the perfect donor to coaster. Doing this will allow me to get rid of all of the Republik of CA crap. I may marble it first just to see what kind of effect this would have.

Pickup Coil mod: I've found the links for doing this mod and can understand how it would improve the field for spark. Would I potentially need to make the fuel mix a little richer because of this mod? On a cage, if you advance the timing, it has the effect of leaning out the carb.

Ignition relay mod: The other day, I was looking through some threads and saw where someone had bypassed the JB and direct wired the feeds to the ignition coils off the starter pole with the trigger coming from the JB. I believe that the purpose of this was to avoid voltage drop by having it run through the JB. Unfortunately, I can't find the link to this.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.



Mods
Voltmeter/clock/temperature gauge
HD Electra Glide Fairing
Earshave/Coastered/CA emissions - gone...
R/R relocated
Nightster seat
Tombstone taillight
Drag specialties turn signals relocated
Sportster progressive shocks... Dropped rear 1 1/2"
Progressive Fork Springs dropped front 1"
NGK plug wires and iridium plugs
Coil Relay Mod
Paint
ACCT to MCCT
Honda Rebel luggage rack
VN800 Handlebars & controls
Screamin Eagle mufflers
F&S Engine Guard & Kury highway pegs
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 11:49 AM
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First off, coastering/marbling has no effect on starting. It is advised to back out your air screws marble or not.

You shouldn't need to richen the mixture after doing the pick up coil mod. The change in engine timing is minuscule.

Just because you got your battery on a charger does not mean it is good. Is it an AGM battery? If not I bet that's part of your problem.

Smellng fuel can mean a flooded motor do to a stuck float, not just a weak spark....or other ignition issues.

Have you checked your air filters recently?

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 12:03 PM
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Yea what Knife said! I would definately have the batt cked with a load tester first. When I first got my 04 (only 928 miles when I bought it 2011) Shortly afterward started having start probs cold and warmed up. I knew the batt was weak so got an AGM and Irid plugs at the same time. No more start probs,starts pretty quick cold and just barely push the start button warm and it is running. A volt meter would be a plus also, tells you what your elect system is doing at a glance.

04-3,200 miles bought July 2011 with 928 miles. Loaded with acessories to many to list here, see my albums for more details! I also make a custom tank bib specific for the 750 if anyone is interested, ck my albums for some pics.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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There aren't any issues with warm starts, hit the button and it fires immediately. I haven't load tested the battery and believe that it is not an AGM (gotta check). Once it's started, it runs like a striped a$$ed ape, so I don't believe that it's a float problem. I have the fuel mixture screws set at 2 1/2 turns (seems a little rich, it did run better at 2 1/4)... I'll have to check the battery and look at the plugs. I'll do that before doing anything else. Thanks for the advice!

I ought to put a volt meter on the list. Where should I hook it up? Constant power or somewhere in the charging circuit?



Mods
Voltmeter/clock/temperature gauge
HD Electra Glide Fairing
Earshave/Coastered/CA emissions - gone...
R/R relocated
Nightster seat
Tombstone taillight
Drag specialties turn signals relocated
Sportster progressive shocks... Dropped rear 1 1/2"
Progressive Fork Springs dropped front 1"
NGK plug wires and iridium plugs
Coil Relay Mod
Paint
ACCT to MCCT
Honda Rebel luggage rack
VN800 Handlebars & controls
Screamin Eagle mufflers
F&S Engine Guard & Kury highway pegs
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 12:21 PM
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^ volt meter will be most acurate directly off the battery, via a relay that energizes off the ignition...
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakzen View Post
...
Ignition relay mod: The other day, I was looking through some threads and saw where someone had bypassed the JB and direct wired the feeds to the ignition coils off the starter pole with the trigger coming from the JB. I believe that the purpose of this was to avoid voltage drop by having it run through the JB. Unfortunately, I can't find the link to this.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Basicly, what you want to do is run a wire from the battery through a relay that is energized with the ignition switch to the coils.... this gets maximum power to them...
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 12:33 PM
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Well, I have to ask then....

What's your technique for starting the bike when cold?

Are you using the choke?

Still sounds like a battery problem.... If it runs fine and starts quickly when warm.. (So it will start eventually then?) but not easily when cold, could just be a weak battery.

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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I use the choke. When the temp is above 40 ish it starts and i let it run with the choke until the rpm's pick up then turn the choke off and let it run for a few more min and its good to go. The last few days its been in the low 30's and just doesn't want to start. I have noticed that the battery seems to lose juice kind of quickly, so I'll have it load tested today.



Mods
Voltmeter/clock/temperature gauge
HD Electra Glide Fairing
Earshave/Coastered/CA emissions - gone...
R/R relocated
Nightster seat
Tombstone taillight
Drag specialties turn signals relocated
Sportster progressive shocks... Dropped rear 1 1/2"
Progressive Fork Springs dropped front 1"
NGK plug wires and iridium plugs
Coil Relay Mod
Paint
ACCT to MCCT
Honda Rebel luggage rack
VN800 Handlebars & controls
Screamin Eagle mufflers
F&S Engine Guard & Kury highway pegs
Jakzen is offline  
post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dariv View Post
Basicly, what you want to do is run a wire from the battery through a relay that is energized with the ignition switch to the coils.... this gets maximum power to them...
Thank you, I recall that whoever posted it also put in an inline fuse...

First thing first, check the battery...



Mods
Voltmeter/clock/temperature gauge
HD Electra Glide Fairing
Earshave/Coastered/CA emissions - gone...
R/R relocated
Nightster seat
Tombstone taillight
Drag specialties turn signals relocated
Sportster progressive shocks... Dropped rear 1 1/2"
Progressive Fork Springs dropped front 1"
NGK plug wires and iridium plugs
Coil Relay Mod
Paint
ACCT to MCCT
Honda Rebel luggage rack
VN800 Handlebars & controls
Screamin Eagle mufflers
F&S Engine Guard & Kury highway pegs
Jakzen is offline  
post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakzen View Post
Thank you, I recall that whoever posted it also put in an inline fuse...

First thing first, check the battery...

'86 VN750 13,700 mi -Stock
-Purchased 2008 w/8800mi
Replaced ALL Cables . Kuryakyn LED Voltmeter
SilverStar Ultra 9003/HB2 H4 Headlamp, Jardine Fwd Controls,
Iridiums DPR7EIX-9 & Wires, Tuxedo Mod, Coil Mod, P/U Sensor Mod, Fork Seals,
Splines Lubed - 11/4/2012 - MF AGM Battery
Additional Flashing LED Brake Light on Trunk
Dampers went out @ 13+K !
After TOC MCCT's..... so amazingly quiet I discovered a rattling heat shield on my stock exhaust !
...have a vulcan good day!
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