Need an Elec. Eng. to check my math for stator mod!!! - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-19-2006, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
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Need an Elec. Eng. to check my math for stator mod!!!

right now i am still doing the math on the conversion from the Y to the delta. I've found some very very interesting things. i am doing my conversion using the square root of 3 which comes out to 1.732( Y config you *volts, delta is *amps). i'm also using 3 motor speeds 1k, 2.5k, 5k rpm. with those values i've found output in AC to be 16, 40, 80volts respectivly. that comes out to .016 volts per rpm. with that i can come to a very close estimate of output at any speed. I've also figured the voltage per turn (not sure if this is valid or not) at the 3 given speeds, .088, .22, .44 volts ac per turn. now i converted it to a delta config with same set up. I've also figured that resistance on the upper bound of 1.5 ohms (.5 ohms per phase)

same speeds. 1k, 2.5k, 5k rpm. this will produce voltages 9.24, 23.09, 46.19 volts ac. this comes out to .009 volts per rpm. I also broke it out to volt per turn, .05, .128, .256 volt ac. resistance on the delta is .5 ohms

Here is where it gets interesting. to get the amps you use this formula Volts/Ohms=Amps. At 2500 rpm the Y makes 26.6 amps (this is before r/r, battery, wire losses), and the delta makes a blasting 46.18 amps. Here is the down side though. If my volt per turn is valid, to produce a similar voltage profile to the Y from the delta, we need 52 turns per pole!!!!

Now i do understand that by increasing the mass (wire gauge) you get more amps. so if i were to use 20 gauge instead of 18 gauge i think i could fit the extra 22 turns per pole. But i am not sure how much the amps would drop. I am figuring that its gonna be around 20% b/c i think that is the "high output" rewind option that people offer. I have a feeling the just jump up a gauge if i am right? even still at 2500 rpm that is 37 amps. I am hoping you can check my math and make sure its right and help with any errors.

*edited to fix error*

'04 Vn750
Currently Installed
nat'l cycle deflector shield
westco 12v30 MF, 30A/h w/ 350 CCA's w/ custom box
TOC stator cover w/ Frankenstator mod!
R/R relo

Soon to have (own or on order)
TOC ACCT's
Mez's 110-FRT 170/80-Rear
Custom rear fender and tail light
Givi hard bags w/ custom rear turn signals


Band Engineer/Webmaster for Josey Contreras Tejano Band

Last edited by Hizzo3; 07-19-2006 at 11:09 AM.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-19-2006, 02:54 AM
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Yeah, right. I specialized in microprocessor systems, and motors ain't my thing. Anyone else?

Oh, and you transposed your 18 and 16 gauge wire, 16 gauge is bigger, thus MORE amps. To check your math, get a real stator and do the measurements and calculations, then compare to the specs of the stator. That way you'll find out if there is a missing "real world" calculation out there.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-19-2006, 05:44 AM
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I'm a machinist, and can firgure out chip load per tooth, IPR or IPM of feed, circular interpolations for a threaded hole, the cartesian coordinates of a bolt hole circle, depth per peck of a high helix titanium coated R8 tapered shank twist drill, crest, root, pitch and working diameters of threads (internal & external) but have no clue about Delta, other than they'll give me 17,500 bonus airmiles if I apply for the Delta Skymiles credit card !!


good luck on your quest Hizzo !!


AKA: Tim & 'The Adventure Cycle' VROC #24567, NEVROC, SteelCity VROC


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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-19-2006, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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a machinist? Could you help me design a new stator cover. I want it to be simmilar to the TOC mod, just that i want the outer smaller cover to be of aluminum and have oil flow through it for a oil cooling effect. my designing capabilities stop with a crayon and stick figures....

'04 Vn750
Currently Installed
nat'l cycle deflector shield
westco 12v30 MF, 30A/h w/ 350 CCA's w/ custom box
TOC stator cover w/ Frankenstator mod!
R/R relo

Soon to have (own or on order)
TOC ACCT's
Mez's 110-FRT 170/80-Rear
Custom rear fender and tail light
Givi hard bags w/ custom rear turn signals


Band Engineer/Webmaster for Josey Contreras Tejano Band
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-19-2006, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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gonna install an oil cooling system to help out the not so good in 100+ water cooling system,the return line from the radiator i want to pass over the stator

'04 Vn750
Currently Installed
nat'l cycle deflector shield
westco 12v30 MF, 30A/h w/ 350 CCA's w/ custom box
TOC stator cover w/ Frankenstator mod!
R/R relo

Soon to have (own or on order)
TOC ACCT's
Mez's 110-FRT 170/80-Rear
Custom rear fender and tail light
Givi hard bags w/ custom rear turn signals


Band Engineer/Webmaster for Josey Contreras Tejano Band
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-20-2006, 05:02 AM
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I can make parts easier than design them ! LOL
Why not just add an oil cooler rad ?

That's one thing I was thinking about doing. There's almost always a bike at a scrapyard with a small oil rad.
I wouldn't think it'd be all that tough to do.


AKA: Tim & 'The Adventure Cycle' VROC #24567, NEVROC, SteelCity VROC


"When life throws you curves,
Aim for the apex."

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-20-2006, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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Well, that is my inital approach. My issue is that i do not know how much oil flows through the stator area. I've read that for other bikes there is a "jet" in the passage way that sprays oil into there, and to get better cooling you can just drill the jet out. not sure if that is what we have here.

anyway. did some conversion between the delta and the star style stators. this is how things work in lamans terms for easy understanding. A star (wye) style is like taking a few battieries and hooking them up in series. it will raise the current, but slightly different then batteries. in batteries, 2 6 volt batteries in a series = 12 volts. in 3 phase systems you use 1.732 (the square root of 3, which represents the phases). The delta is like putting them in parallel, which will boost amps.
Example: if our stator is putting out 11 volts at idle and 12.8 amps per phase, then in a star configuration will boost voltage to 19.2 and amps stay the same. Delta on the otherhand will keep the same 11 volts and will produce 22.18 amps at idle (btw this is close to what you bike makes when crusin :P)

here is a table i made so you can see what is being made.

RPM.........Y volt...Amp.....Delta.volt...Amp
1k.............16.....10.67........9.24......18.48
1.2k (idle).19.2...12.8.........11.09.....22.18
2.5k..........40......26.67........23.09....46.18
4k.............64......42.67.......36.95.....73.9
5k.............80......53.33.......46.19.....92.38
7k.............112....74.66.......64.67......129.3 4

Now I know that the wire in the stator is 18 gauge, so i am not certain if this limits the value since it has a max current of 20 amps. If this is true, then Y's max amp output is 40 amps (when converting from ac to dc, the amps double right? 40v*26.67a=1066w, 20v*53.34a=1066w) Vs delta will have a max of 40*1.732=69.82 amps

****keep in mind this is stator production not including R/R, wire and battery charging losses...Am i right so far?
i've also got a few stators comming in from the yahoo board. Hopefully i will have 3+mine= star, high ampage star, delta high voltage delta. now all i need is a flywheel and make a "engine" set up lol

'04 Vn750
Currently Installed
nat'l cycle deflector shield
westco 12v30 MF, 30A/h w/ 350 CCA's w/ custom box
TOC stator cover w/ Frankenstator mod!
R/R relo

Soon to have (own or on order)
TOC ACCT's
Mez's 110-FRT 170/80-Rear
Custom rear fender and tail light
Givi hard bags w/ custom rear turn signals


Band Engineer/Webmaster for Josey Contreras Tejano Band

Last edited by Hizzo3; 07-20-2006 at 10:55 AM.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-20-2006, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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i wonder if i can an "engine" out of an old shop fan or high velocity fan like a patton or something. really wish i had some machining experiance, do they charge alot?

'04 Vn750
Currently Installed
nat'l cycle deflector shield
westco 12v30 MF, 30A/h w/ 350 CCA's w/ custom box
TOC stator cover w/ Frankenstator mod!
R/R relo

Soon to have (own or on order)
TOC ACCT's
Mez's 110-FRT 170/80-Rear
Custom rear fender and tail light
Givi hard bags w/ custom rear turn signals


Band Engineer/Webmaster for Josey Contreras Tejano Band
Hizzo3 is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-20-2006, 03:00 PM
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Looks like ya got things figured out pretty thoroughly there Hizzo.
Good luck with your Frankenstator !!


AKA: Tim & 'The Adventure Cycle' VROC #24567, NEVROC, SteelCity VROC


"When life throws you curves,
Aim for the apex."

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-20-2006, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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so just outta curiousity, how does $150 sound for a stator (stock output + just a little cause its wound neater)made with better materials, that will last 20k+ miles in temperate climates, and with and oil cooler (an extra $250, and a boosted stator to cover oil cooler fan) installed 20k+ in hotter climates? If testing goes well i may even offer a 2 year warranty (wouldnt that be an industry first, a warranty that is longer then the manufature warranty :P)

'04 Vn750
Currently Installed
nat'l cycle deflector shield
westco 12v30 MF, 30A/h w/ 350 CCA's w/ custom box
TOC stator cover w/ Frankenstator mod!
R/R relo

Soon to have (own or on order)
TOC ACCT's
Mez's 110-FRT 170/80-Rear
Custom rear fender and tail light
Givi hard bags w/ custom rear turn signals


Band Engineer/Webmaster for Josey Contreras Tejano Band

Last edited by Hizzo3; 07-20-2006 at 05:20 PM.
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