Regulator/Rectifier Relocation Procedure - Page 2 - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
Electrical
Where does this wire go?
Includes Electrical mods, Lights, Stator,
Rectifier, Diagrams, etc

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post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old 09-13-2011, 05:17 PM
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Just a general question about either method:

How 'stable' is the RR after the move? Hard to tell but I was wondering if the thing vibrates a lot while the bike is running

Jeff
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post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eusjma View Post
Just a general question about either method:

How 'stable' is the RR after the move? Hard to tell but I was wondering if the thing vibrates a lot while the bike is running

Jeff
Along those lines of questioning, how prone is it in this location to get nice and wet on a rainy day ride? Will the excess water damage the circuitry in the R/R?

......I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere then in any city on earth.

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post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 01:56 PM
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i have had mine located there fore 3 years... no damage at all.. no bad vibrations either
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post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
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The mount I did was very solid, no wobble or vibration at all. And, as far as the moisture, it is a good idea to use dielectric grease on the connection so that you keep it from gathering water and corroding. (on all connections on the bike for that matter) If you're riding in weather, there's no way to keep the r/r dry, no matter where it is located, so even if you don't relocate it, it is a good idea to seal the connector with dielectric grease.

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post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 02:04 PM
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Along those lines of questioning, how prone is it in this location to get nice and wet on a rainy day ride? Will the excess water damage the circuitry in the R/R?
The electro sport I used came with a wire harness instead of the OEM style plug.
I snipped off the plug then soldered and shrink wrapped the connections on that and the stator. So far, no worries.
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post #16 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 04:10 PM
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I have put almost exactly 150,000 miles on 2 Vulcan 750s, never relocated the R/R, and never had one fail. That doesn't mean one won't, but I doubt moving it will help.

I never really understood how the charging system on motorcycles worked, because I had never had any problems with them. When I got my '85 Goldwing, I got a crash course in motorcycle charging systems. The Goldwing has one of the worst. It uses the same design as the Vulcan, but the stator puts out a lot more power, 500 watts in the case of my 1200LTD. I quickly discovered the difference between a motorcycle charging system and a car charging system. On a car, the alternator output is controlled by load, the more load you place on the system the greater the alternators output, up to it's limit.

A motorcycle charging system is COMPLETELY different. It does not use a controlled output. It runs wide open all the time, at full output above a certain rpm, no matter how much of that current is actually being used. Now comes the really dumb part. Part of the job of the R/R is to convert the AC current from the stator to DC, so the bike can use it. The other part is to "dump" unused current. It does this by shorting it directly to ground. Now of course this develops a lot of resistance in the R/R, which causes heat. In other words, the R/R works just like an electrical heating element, like the burners on an electric range. The difference is, with a heating element, heat is the desired result. With the R/R it is not. It is simply an undesired side effect of the way an R/R works.

On bikes that use almost all the current the stator puts out, it really isn't that much of a problem. The R/R will get warm, but that is why it has fins on it. It is basically a heat sink. The heat coming from the goats belly is really insignificant compared to the heat generated inside the R/R. And it is only there when the bike is not moving. Once you start riding, air blowing over it carries away most of the heat.

My Goldwing was a different story. First of all the 500 watt stator was totally unnecessary to run the bike, and was probably put there because most Goldwing owners add all kinds of electrical accessories. I didn't. I figure it takes less than 200 watts to operate everything on the bike, leaving at least 300 watts to be disposed of. Then Honda used an R/R that lacked anywhere near the capacity to dump that much current, and mounted it under the fake gas tank, where it got no cooling air at all. My system had three white plastic "molex" connectors between the stator and R/R. All 3 were fried. I cut them out, and soldered everything together, trying to eliminate as much resistance as possible. The R/R still got hot enough to actually set the bike on fire (it set fire to the insulation of some wires that were in contact with the fins) Fortunately this happened while the bike was idling, with the fake tank off, while I was working n it, and I quickly got the fire put out. I repaired the damage, but realized that this was simply not going to work. Even if I kept everything away from it, the internal heat would eventually cook it. My solution was to mount a high output blower type fan under the fake tank (there was plenty of room under there after I removed the cruise control, on board air compressor/self leveling system, stereo amp, and trip computer) which drew about 5 amps, removing that load from the R/R, and running a duct from the blower directly to the R/R, which blew a LOT of air directly on the R/R. I have put over 2000 miles on this setup, including one 600 mile trip, and nothing has failed. I carry an extra known good R/R with me just in case.

So while relocating the R/R on the Vulcan shouldn't hurt anything (as long as you don't cut any wires) IMO it really won't help either. Your bike your choice.

I am a motorcyclist, NOT a biker.


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2006 Sportster 1200 Low
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post #17 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-27-2011, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuxedoSeven View Post
Having trouble following the logic. Heat doesn't cause electronic failure ? Goat's belly not that hot ? Blower is good but relocating to a cooler location is a waste of time ?

Lots of R/Rs fail. I'm glad yours didn't. Clean up the connectors. Solder and shrink wrap them if you have some time to kill. Moving it to a cooler location is fast, easy and not a bad idea.
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post #18 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-28-2011, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuxedoSeven View Post
Having trouble following the logic. Heat doesn't cause electronic failure ? Goat's belly not that hot ? Blower is good but relocating to a cooler location is a waste of time ?

Lots of R/Rs fail. I'm glad yours didn't. Clean up the connectors. Solder and shrink wrap them if you have some time to kill. Moving it to a cooler location is fast, easy and not a bad idea.

First of all, I don't consider the Vulcan's R/R to be an electronic device, because it does not contain anything digital. To me it is an electrical device. On my Vulcan I did remove the 3 connectors in the stator wires, and soldered them together, because I found heat damage to the wires around the connectors, and in an electrical circuit, heat means resistance. My guess was the connectors were not making good electrical contact, creating high resistance, and damaging the wires near the connectors. I have not noticed a problem since, and that was maybe 30,000 miles ago.

It is the job of an R/R on a motorcycle to generate heat. It shorts excess current to ground, creating heat in the process, just like a resistance heating element. That's why it has fins on it. It was designed to get hot.

I agree that excess heat will usually shorten the life of most electrical components, but in the case of the R/R, it is likely to be internally generated heat that does it in. Virtually all electrical parts that generate heat will eventually burn out, whether it is a light bulb, a fuse, or a heating element. Heat slowly changes the molecular structure of the metal, and resistance goes up. Eventually it reaches the point where it gets hot enough to burn into. I do not believe the "goats belly" makes enough heat to cause any damage to the R/R, because for one, it is external heat, and two, the R/R makes a lot more heat internally than what comes from the exhaust.


But, I also don't believe you are going to do any harm by relocating it, as long as you don't cut wires. When you cut and splice wires, you create the possibility of a bad connection, which has high resistance, or a "hot spot", which would definitely be likely to cause more damage than the exhaust. Some people have spliced in enough wire to move the thing all the way to the front forks. I have not relocated mine for two reasons, I don't believe it is necessary, and I don't like the way it looks on the outside like that. If protecting it from heat is the idea, it seems that a cleaner solution would be to install some kind of insulation between it and the exhaust.


The Goldwing issue is an extreme example of poor engineering, with no good solution. Many people have spent hundreds of $$$ converting their bikes to a belt driven car alternator, driven from a pulley bolted to the front end of the crankshaft. Something like that, done in a neater way, is how I think it should have been done in the first place. Nobody who has done it that way has ever complained of any problems since doing it. When Honda came out with the 1500 six cylinder Goldwing, it DID come with a load controlled automotive style alternator.

I am a motorcyclist, NOT a biker.


1997 Vulcan 750, purchased about a week ago
2006 Sportster 1200 Low
2013 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, converted to carb
2001 Yamaha XT225, heavily modified
2004 Honda Rebel 250
1979 Vespa P200E
2002 Vulcan 750 parts bike
1994 Yamaha XT225 parts bike
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post #19 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-21-2011, 12:38 PM
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I have a question about relocating the R/R : does it create any kind of issue for a passenger? Looks like it would end up being under someone's left leg after the remount - does it get hot enough to burn the passenger's leg or cause other discomfort/issues?

Just curious : )


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post #20 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-21-2011, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AZ Kev View Post
I have a question about relocating the R/R : does it create any kind of issue for a passenger? Looks like it would end up being under someone's left leg after the remount - does it get hot enough to burn the passenger's leg or cause other discomfort/issues?
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