R/R relocation - electrical fixes...a reaffirmation of electrical fixes - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-28-2010, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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R/R relocation - electrical fixes...a reaffirmation of electrical fixes

First off Id like to thank this forum because trolling through here has enabled me to fix my hot start problems.

First I would liek to reaffirm that it is CRUCIAL to relocate the R/R. I bought a new bike and it was fried. I replaced the new R/R in the same location and ran around town on a voltmeter. New R/R ran great until about 10 minutes when it got too hott to touch and the voltmeter was back down to 12v at the same 4k RPM compared to the 17v at 4k RPM I was running before. I relocated the R/R and did the same experiment and I have consistant 17v at 4k no matter how long I run the bike...Further the R/R does not get nearly as hot and is ok to touch

A very cheap fix it to make a bracket similar to bulldogs from a 6" straight piece of strong tie available at home depot (holds pieces of wood together...home depot will know what it is....Drill a hole at one end to go on the top screw of the passenger peg (left side)...then two on the other end for the R/R to go through...it looks professionaly done and will cost you 2.77. ...bottom line whatever you do RELOCATE the R/R...it is as true as gravity that the R/R will get hott and fail much quicker left where its at.

SPARK PLUGS

next day, I ran with the old plugs to confirm I'm still running at 17v at 4k....it checked out. I switched ot iridium and was getting 18.5v roughly at 4kRPM driving around town....the lower draw on the iridium is worth it for the 20 bucks your paying to get the extra1-1.5volts...

HOT STARTIGN PROBLEM

this is a product of the R/R in its original location getting to hott and over time not functioning to its full potential. It charges some but as its function degraded it gives out less and less volts to the battery....when you try to restart your battery may not have enoguh juice to turn over (you will realize this if you were to jump right when its hott and it kicks right up..i did this)....nevertheless your battery tends to gain a little bit of charge while its resting (if its still good) so after waiting a bit you may have just enough to kcik back up...this wont last forever as the R/R continues to degrade as does the battery.....this problem drove me nuts but is now fixed with the new R/R

maintence free battery also important!!!!...probably the best first buy.
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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-28-2010, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddfreedom View Post
First off Id like to thank this forum because trolling through here has enabled me to fix my hot start problems.

First I would liek to reaffirm that it is CRUCIAL to relocate the R/R. I bought a new bike and it was fried. I replaced the new R/R in the same location and ran around town on a voltmeter. New R/R ran great until about 10 minutes when it got too hott to touch and the voltmeter was back down to 12v at the same 4k RPM compared to the 17v at 4k RPM I was running before. I relocated the R/R and did the same experiment and I have consistant 17v at 4k no matter how long I run the bike...Further the R/R does not get nearly as hot and is ok to touch

A very cheap fix it to make a bracket similar to bulldogs from a 6" straight piece of strong tie available at home depot (holds pieces of wood together...home depot will know what it is....Drill a hole at one end to go on the top screw of the passenger peg (left side)...then two on the other end for the R/R to go through...it looks professionaly done and will cost you 2.77. ...bottom line whatever you do RELOCATE the R/R...it is as true as gravity that the R/R will get hott and fail much quicker left where its at.

SPARK PLUGS

next day, I ran with the old plugs to confirm I'm still running at 17v at 4k....it checked out. I switched ot iridium and was getting 18.5v roughly at 4kRPM driving around town....the lower draw on the iridium is worth it for the 20 bucks your paying to get the extra1-1.5volts...

HOT STARTIGN PROBLEM

this is a product of the R/R in its original location getting to hott and over time not functioning to its full potential. It charges some but as its function degraded it gives out less and less volts to the battery....when you try to restart your battery may not have enoguh juice to turn over (you will realize this if you were to jump right when its hott and it kicks right up..i did this)....nevertheless your battery tends to gain a little bit of charge while its resting (if its still good) so after waiting a bit you may have just enough to kcik back up...this wont last forever as the R/R continues to degrade as does the battery.....this problem drove me nuts but is now fixed with the new R/R

maintence free battery also important!!!!...probably the best first buy.
There is still a problem, the R/R output should not be 17v it should max @ 14.5v


85 VN700 "Old Yella"

REBUILT ENGINE
CUSTOM PAINT
VANCE & HINES CRUZERS
EAR SHAVED AND RE-JETTED W/K&N'S
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SYNTHETIC BRAKE FLUID
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ACCT'S GREASED W/TOC SPRINGS
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PICKUP COILS GAPPED AT .018"
NGK CAP, WIRES, IRIDUMS
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ORIGINAL STATOR & R/R 14.5v
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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-28-2010, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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well that is a problem. I was so excited considering my old rectifier gave me a start at 14v then gradually went down to 2 to 4v...

the battery sits at 13v cold right now but what are hte long standing problems of 17v going to the battery? Not to electrically inclined (doing the medical school thing over here) just posting observations from tooling around with a multimeter.

Don't mean to sound like a "know it all" here as I certainly don't, I just realize that there may be other people like me tooling with the idea of moving the R/R and wanted to convey that you should move it!


the R/R is brand new (few days old)...could it potentially be just a bad R/R? Is there really any other problem that would cause this...I don't think the stator would do it but perhaps I don't understand the process.

Last edited by ddfreedom; 04-28-2010 at 11:33 PM.
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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 12:42 AM
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the r/r should be regulating the voltage around 14 what brand is your r/r i have been trying to decide between the cycle electric ce-602 and the shindengen fh012aa from roadstercycle.com


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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddfreedom View Post
well that is a problem. I was so excited considering my old rectifier gave me a start at 14v then gradually went down to 2 to 4v...

the battery sits at 13v cold right now but what are hte long standing problems of 17v going to the battery? Not to electrically inclined (doing the medical school thing over here) just posting observations from tooling around with a multimeter.

Don't mean to sound like a "know it all" here as I certainly don't, I just realize that there may be other people like me tooling with the idea of moving the R/R and wanted to convey that you should move it!


the R/R is brand new (few days old)...could it potentially be just a bad R/R? Is there really any other problem that would cause this...I don't think the stator would do it but perhaps I don't understand the process.
Over volt situation will eventualy kill the battery and possibly start burning out the filaments in your bulbs. The wiring can handle the over volt but not the components.


It could be the R/R especialy if you bought a Chinese one, or your voltmeter for the same reason.

Do the Newbe Check-in and give us some more info and check out the Versus.

Relocating the R/R is the best thing you could do, most of us have.

Welcome to the family and don't hesitate to ask questions, there are a lot of awesome members will to help at the drop of a hat.


85 VN700 "Old Yella"

REBUILT ENGINE
CUSTOM PAINT
VANCE & HINES CRUZERS
EAR SHAVED AND RE-JETTED W/K&N'S
DUNLOP ELITE K591 FRONT & REAR
VOLTMETER
SYNTHETIC BRAKE FLUID
SYNTHETIC OIL & GEAR LUBE
PLEXISTAR 2 WINDSHIELD
SPLINES LUBED
ACCT'S GREASED W/TOC SPRINGS
COASTERD
LEATHER SADDLE BAGS
LEATHER TOOL AND ROLL BAG
PICKUP COILS GAPPED AT .018"
NGK CAP, WIRES, IRIDUMS
BARNETT FRICTION PLATES & SPRINGS
CUSTOM GRIPS, MIRRORS, LEVERS
ORIGINAL STATOR & R/R 14.5v
DEKA MF AGM ETX15L

Best Auto/Moto Insurance | Motorcycle Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 02:31 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for the help lance, cant tell you how much I appreciate it.

I bought an electrosport R/R so no cheapy there. My first multimeter was a cen tech...threw that out and got a 25$ one from wal mart (intima autoranging that received good reviews on amazon)

I get 13v at idle its when i go up to 4k then i sit around 17-18

I tried the electrosport fault finding guide...and I did run into a snag

-->on section B( I had an RR w 4 diff colors... I connected red to + and black to the +12v input wire (I assume this is the brown one in the center leaving the R/R (on bike side). My reading was 0.5V....the Dx guide says anyhting above 0.2V means the following

" Bad connection from the battery (+) through the ignition switch to the switched +12v supply input on the RR. Check the whole electrical circuit (yikes!) This is one of the most difficult faults to find. Suspect the ignitiiion switch itself, the fuse box and its connections. The RR thinsk the battery voltage is too low while the actual voltage is correct or too high (sounds like my problem). Disconnect all terminals and clean them (i have a new battery so this shoudlnt be a problem)...."

So my questions is essentially, where do I start. At this point I am lsot w/out a DIY guide.... I do have a clymer in the mail (can you tell I'm a new owner?)

On a different note I have one more problem that I believe I understand and wanted to run by potential plans to fix. I can move this to another thread if its better suited there.

...I am suffering from the coffee grinder noise when cold in first gear...here is what I summised from trolling these forums...it is from the clutch plates sticking either from

1. cold thick oil causing the plates to stick due to is viscosity...as the bike heats up oil thins out and lubricates between disks ( I have change the oil twice with mobil1 syntheti 10w40...so not sure if this is it

2. plates themselve...uneven spring tension which may cause damage to the plates (scallop pattern etc)...as the bike and springs heat up it goes away...

3. another idea i havent thought about...

...otherwise I hav no idea. I was planning on replacing them with barnett components (springs, steel plates and friction plates) as a fix...any other ideas would be appreciated. Its pretty bad and I look like an idiot everytime i start even with feathering the clutch.

bike has 30k on it for reference.
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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 03:04 AM
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from what i have read on here there have been several bad electrosport r/r and stators straight out of the box as an alternative at a decent price i recommend the fh012aa from roadstercycle.com it is made by the same people that make the factory unit difference is it uses mosfets instead of scr to control voltage the universal kit is about 120 + shipping and comes with instructions it is a 5 wire unit and does not require the brown wire as it senses voltage internally.


34k so far
VN750.com member #613
Keep the shiny side up
coastered
de-goat and baffles removed
jetted 42-150 2 shims
Earshaved with unifilters
inside of tank coated
spline lube
long Beach Blue Pearl Paint 4/07
Shindengen FH012AA r/r
TPE stator
Exide sc30lfa Battery 28ah 445cca
Saddlemen saddlebags
2001 HD fatboy solo seat
Custom taillight & rear turn signals
Fergy's coil relay mod
Fiamm El-Grande high/low tone horns
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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddfreedom View Post
I tried the electrosport fault finding guide...and I did run into a snag

-->on section B( I had an RR w 4 diff colors... I connected red to + and black to the +12v input wire (I assume this is the brown one in the center leaving the R/R (on bike side). My reading was 0.5V....the Dx guide says anyhting above 0.2V means the following

" Bad connection from the battery (+) through the ignition switch to the switched +12v supply input on the RR. Check the whole electrical circuit (yikes!) This is one of the most difficult faults to find. Suspect the ignitiiion switch itself, the fuse box and its connections. The RR thinsk the battery voltage is too low while the actual voltage is correct or too high (sounds like my problem). Disconnect all terminals and clean them (i have a new battery so this shoudlnt be a problem)...."

So my questions is essentially, where do I start. At this point I am lsot w/out a DIY guide.... I do have a clymer in the mail (can you tell I'm a new owner?)
Look in the thread My Turn in this section of the forum. Slim has posted the r/r test procedure, which is done on a warmed up, disconnected r/r. If you have questions, just post and folks will respond.

I'm keepin' all the left over parts. I'm gonna use 'em to build another bike!
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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 11:55 AM
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I used to have the coffee grinder issue as well on my 2003 vn750. I moved to Castrol GTX oil in my previous oil change and the coffee grinder issue was gone. Also, you can try tightening the clutch to make sure you are full engaging and disengaging it. Others have recommended 15W-40 "Rotella T" motor oil. If you haven't changed the oil, give the Rotella T a try. Here is a link with pictures to illustrate the oil change procedure and what you'll need to complete it.
https://www.vn750.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6008


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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 04-29-2010, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Look in the thread My Turn in this section of the forum. Slim has posted the r/r test procedure, which is done on a warmed up, disconnected r/r. If you have questions, just post and folks will respond.
I took a look at that thread (the one where your bike died) and I don't think it is similar to my situation. From the electrosport fault finding guide it seems my problem is in that 12v+ lead (brown wire)...The problem it describes is the reg/rect thinking the battery is undercharged (I theorize maybe do to a short or ground somewhere in that 12v+ wire) then ramping up the volts to the battery...my quesiton is is the function of that brown 12v+ wire to tell the reg/rectifier how much volts the battery is getting so it can adjust itself to charge it?

If the above is the case...I was thinking I can make 6 wires (male and female end)...connect the 5 other wires to each other as if it was plugged in...then run the last wire (the brown one) directly to the battery +...this bypass could tell me if a short existed...again i dont know if this will work or if there is an easy way, Im trying to figure out a way within my own ignorance of electricity.

I see a poster above mentioned that other R/R internally regulate the voltage so they don't need a brown wire...
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