Popping w/ethanol...?? - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-21-2008, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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Popping w/ethanol...??

I was just wondering if anyone else seems to think that their cycle pops more with the added ethanol... I hadn't been marbled too long before the 10% ethanol appeared in the gas here, but it just seems that after the marbleing which really seemed to help, then the added ethanol came, and to me has brought it back, or is it just me...??? Anyone else seem to be experiencing more popping with the added ethanol...???
Thanks and have a good one...Old Dog...

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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-21-2008, 10:05 PM
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YES! Thank you for posting this - I filled McKnight after I'd done a marbling test run; ever since, the bike's been popping and carrying on. I also noticed that the gas mileage in our cars isn't as good as it can be on non-ethanol "enhanced" fuel. My understanding is there's more water in the fuel once the ethanol is added, which can lead to a host of other problems (like corroded jets - not gunked up, corroded). Seafoam's great, but is there some kind of "anti-thol" that we can put in our tanks? Very frustrating - pay more for reduced performance.
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-21-2008, 11:27 PM
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Mine doesn't, altho it's both coastered and shaved, but I don't use ethanol "enhanced" fuel, if I can help it. I have had to, on occasion, when out on a trip.

Jim

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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 02:39 AM
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As of Sept 1st, It's mandatory for all stations to sell E fuel. Seals, o-rings, and fuel lines are all at risk. Bend over and take it again for the EPA.

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 02:52 AM
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ethanol changes the burning charcteristics of the fuel. It tends to burn cold, cooling the combustion chamber during ignition. leaning out the jets a bit might cure the issue, until the next time you put in straight gas. Its possible that running a different heat range spark plug might help too.

85 VN750 basketcase ( yes its a true 750, and no smog controls, its good to be Canadian)
It will have
a rebuilt 96 top end, rebuilt 85 bottom end
degoated, Eared
stripped, lowered, raked, bobbed,
reed valve boxes shaved
ported and polished
balanced
right side dump exhaust
heads and cylinders shaved for compression
looking for smoothbore sidedraft carbs
possibly fat bob tanks
modified vn800 or sportster drag pipes or I'll just make some

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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck View Post
ethanol changes the burning charcteristics of the fuel. It tends to burn cold, cooling the combustion chamber during ignition. leaning out the jets a bit might cure the issue, until the next time you put in straight gas. Its possible that running a different heat range spark plug might help too.
Actually, you have to increase the jet size. Gasoline runs best in an engine at a air/fuel ratio of 14.7 to 1. An engine running 100% Ethanol the air/fuel ratio of 9.002 to 1. So for any mix of Gas/Ethanol, the amount of fuel has to be increased to maintain a proper air/fuel ratio. The more Ethanol, the bigger the jets or you will have lean mixture.

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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 12:33 PM
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got me convinced, i knew it was one way or the other.

85 VN750 basketcase ( yes its a true 750, and no smog controls, its good to be Canadian)
It will have
a rebuilt 96 top end, rebuilt 85 bottom end
degoated, Eared
stripped, lowered, raked, bobbed,
reed valve boxes shaved
ported and polished
balanced
right side dump exhaust
heads and cylinders shaved for compression
looking for smoothbore sidedraft carbs
possibly fat bob tanks
modified vn800 or sportster drag pipes or I'll just make some

Chopperfix
Duck's Garage
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 02:33 PM
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Looks like you're right. I was backward on the jets. http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm

85 VN750 basketcase ( yes its a true 750, and no smog controls, its good to be Canadian)
It will have
a rebuilt 96 top end, rebuilt 85 bottom end
degoated, Eared
stripped, lowered, raked, bobbed,
reed valve boxes shaved
ported and polished
balanced
right side dump exhaust
heads and cylinders shaved for compression
looking for smoothbore sidedraft carbs
possibly fat bob tanks
modified vn800 or sportster drag pipes or I'll just make some

Chopperfix
Duck's Garage
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 02:59 PM
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Found this On Yahoo Answers

Ethanol must be run at much richer mixtures than gasoline. Your carb will need to be prepped for ethanol and rejetted.

Ethanol is less corrosive to most fuel delivery system components than methanol. This is due in part to the higher oxygen content of methanol. However, certain materials that may be used as sealers or glue in methanol-compatible fuel cells may not be compatible with ethanol.

Because ethanol contains oxygen, it can form corrosive agents. Any water that enters the system can promote the formation of formic acid. Although this process takes a significant amount of time before damage occurs, the tank, pump, and lines should be either stainless steel or coated with a plastic material that is ethanol-compatible. All natural rubber parts that could be in contact with ethanol must also be replaced with synthetic and other materials. In some cases it may be desirable to modify the carburetor so that it can handle the required increased liquid fuel flow when converting from a gasoline application.

When considering fuel pump compatibility, it must also be understood that gasoline is an insulator but ethanol does conduct electricity. This should not be an issue for race cars, as they nearly always have a pump that is mounted outside of the tank. However, the pump must be internally ethanol/methanol compatible and must be able to keep up with the increased fuel delivery rates.

Because Ethanol contains oxygen, it has a very low power stoichiometric when compared to gasoline fuels (6.5 compared to 12.5). Ethanol must be run at much richer mixtures than gasoline, more than offsetting the lower energy per unit volume. The net energy released per cycle is higher and this results in more horsepower.

For example, if gasoline is run at its preferred max power air fuel mixture of 12.5/1, it will release approximately 19,000 BTU's of energy, where ethanol run at its preferred power stoichiometric of 6.5/1 will release approximately 24,400 BTU's. By comparison, methanol releases slightly more, about 27,650 BTU's. The more ethanol there is in gasoline, the more powerful it is as a motor fuel. Typically, you can expect at least 5% more horsepower at the rear wheels of a vehicle running on E-85 than one burning gasoline only.

85 VN750 basketcase ( yes its a true 750, and no smog controls, its good to be Canadian)
It will have
a rebuilt 96 top end, rebuilt 85 bottom end
degoated, Eared
stripped, lowered, raked, bobbed,
reed valve boxes shaved
ported and polished
balanced
right side dump exhaust
heads and cylinders shaved for compression
looking for smoothbore sidedraft carbs
possibly fat bob tanks
modified vn800 or sportster drag pipes or I'll just make some

Chopperfix
Duck's Garage
Duck is offline  
post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-22-2008, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Well to me reading both it sure is confusing...Quote-"Ethanol has less energy than gasoline. Gasoline has 117600 BTU per gallon, ethanol 67000 BTU per gallon."- End quote from ... http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm

Then read the statement above Quote-"if gasoline is run at its preferred max power air fuel mixture of 12.5/1, it will release approximately 19,000 BTU's of energy, where ethanol run at its preferred power stoichiometric of 6.5/1 will release approximately 24,400 BTU's." End quote...

Anyway you put it I don't like it...
Have a good one...Old Dog...

Southern Central Tennessee.......
Now on the Dark Side......
Girl's Bike 09 Sporty xl 1200 Custom...33k + & clickin......
Sportster Owner/Rider since age 72...lol... Rider since Simplex...???
09-xl1200 "C" Vivid Black, Cast wheels w/19" Frt., SE-Stage 1+, X14iEDs...
MicroTach +, Higher wider H-bars, GPS Mt., Mustach bar Hwy. pegs...
Viking Shock cutout Saddlebags, Rear Mt. Signal Lt. Kit, Fork Brace...
RoadKing Air Shocks, Mustang Seat, Progressive Fork Springs...
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