JIS Phillips versus US/Euro Phillips Screwdrivers - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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JIS Phillips versus US/Euro Phillips Screwdrivers

As someone who stripped the screws on my carburetor while cleaning it I thought this was a topic worth discussing and might save the rest of the screws on my Vulcan as well.

From Motorcyclist Magazine, March 2007 issue:

"When getting the phillips screws out of the carb float bowl. You need to use the proper tool. Those - and a lot of other screws on Japanese cars, bikes and other products for the last 20 or so years - are Japanese Phillips, specifically Japanese Industrial standard JIS 4633B-3/1991 and DIN/ISO standard 5260.

Note the dot in one corner of the cross formed by the slots on the screw head indicating it is ISO/DIN. The Japanese-style Phillips screwdrivers are available from Ames Supply Co. (www.amessupply.com) and Katun (www.katun.com).

I'm surprised more people aren't aware of the fact that there are two diff. specs for Phillips-Head tools. Using the normal US/Euro #1 or #2 screwdrivers in a screw with the dot in it will most likely strip the head on the first try via little effort."

Anybody use the JIS screwdrivers and notice a difference? Looking at the different pattern used by JIS I would think it would be significant and I am unable to find any JIS here in Germany.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 11:41 AM
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Lets not forget the posidrive that is remarkably close to the phillips. HP used to use it almost exclusively in their expensive electronics test equipment line.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 04:34 PM
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So if we wanted to get a set of JIS Phillips screwdrivers to work on our carbs, what sizes would we need?

I'm keepin' all the left over parts. I'm gonna use 'em to build another bike!
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Currently 23,298 miles

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1987 VN750 project bike, acquired August, 2009, 33,000 miles and balancer sticking out of the case, currently awaiting attention and parts
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 05:18 PM
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if u replace them with an allen headed bolt stripping becomes less of an issue and look at the bright side they could have used flat screws .... i know there are diffrent specs of screws ... i was able to remove mine no problem with a number 2 us phillips... i bet the three replacement bolts would be cheaper then a set of screwdrivers! for those tough to get screws i use an impact screwdrive the moment my manual starts to slip the first time... get the carbs on a good solid surface good luck!



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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seebeeare View Post
if u replace them with an allen headed bolt stripping becomes less of an issue and look at the bright side they could have used flat screws .... i know there are diffrent specs of screws ... i was able to remove mine no problem with a number 2 us phillips... i bet the three replacement bolts would be cheaper then a set of screwdrivers! for those tough to get screws i use an impact screwdrive the moment my manual starts to slip the first time... get the carbs on a good solid surface good luck!
Sounds good. From what I was reading, it sounded like many people were stripping the screw heads. Since I've never had the carbs out and just bought a project bike, was wondering how hard it was to remove a stripped screw. Assume a Vise-Grip would work if you could get it on the screw.

I'm keepin' all the left over parts. I'm gonna use 'em to build another bike!
_____________________________________________
"Black Beauty"
1989 VN750 acquired December, 2008, 6,711 miles
Currently 23,298 miles

Old Blue
2001 Honda CMX250 Rebel acquired July, 2008

1987 VN750 project bike, acquired August, 2009, 33,000 miles and balancer sticking out of the case, currently awaiting attention and parts
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flitecontrol View Post
Sounds good. From what I was reading, it sounded like many people were stripping the screw heads. Since I've never had the carbs out and just bought a project bike, was wondering how hard it was to remove a stripped screw. Assume a Vise-Grip would work if you could get it on the screw.
First thing to do is make sure you have a hardened tip on the screwdriver.
Second is make sure the screw head is cleaned out completely, with a pick and/or solvent if neccessary, before trying to remove the screw. More screws are buggered up by deformed screwdrivers and dirty screw heads than any other reason.
Third let some penetrating oil soak for as long as possible, even overnight.

I`ve never tried this, but wonder if heating with the tip of a heavy duty soldering gun against the screw head for a couple of minutes, might help break any corrosion in between the threads before using the screwdriver or impact driver.

A vice grip will often save the day, but avoiding a stripped head, if at all possible, is much easier.

Gordon

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TOP TEN THINGS A NEW RIDER/OWNER SHOULD DO. Click on link.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 10:27 AM
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Right on, OlHoss, as usual. I think seebeeare's suggestion to replace them with a different head bolt is also a good idea.

I'm keepin' all the left over parts. I'm gonna use 'em to build another bike!
_____________________________________________
"Black Beauty"
1989 VN750 acquired December, 2008, 6,711 miles
Currently 23,298 miles

Old Blue
2001 Honda CMX250 Rebel acquired July, 2008

1987 VN750 project bike, acquired August, 2009, 33,000 miles and balancer sticking out of the case, currently awaiting attention and parts
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 05:35 PM
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I guess I am the only one here that has both types of phillips drivers in the old tool box. Oddly I do not have a "large" japanese one , so not sure what they look like.

The only real difference I have noticed is the size of the area on the tip that is flat. Some appear to have a slightly sharper angle but have not had a issue with stripping out the tiny screws on the carb...I have had more problems with stripped screws on the larger size bolts like the one that holds the helmet lock to the frame.
This of course was complicated by the over use of loctitte on the threads, but none of the "american" drivers I have seem to fit these perfectly.

You can always alter a drivers tip to fit a given screw better. To get the afore mentioned helmet lock bolt out I first took a bit of putty and shoved it the "cross" , basicly making a mold of the heads shape. I then took the putty and compared it to several phillips tips I had till I found one that was close.
A few carefull passes on the bench grinder and I had a good copy of the mold I made.

The suck part was even with the perfect fitting driver the bolt head itself still dished itself out and I ended up drilling the damn thing out. (the driver it seems is hardened metal, not so for the screw)

Also take a good look at some of the smaller bolts as they do have a "philips" type cross pattern, but also have full slot running through one of the "legs" , so you are better off using a flat blade bit than the phillips.



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Last edited by Knifemaker; 08-24-2009 at 05:37 PM.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-28-2018, 03:25 PM
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Funny, I was just watching a video by AvE on YouTube (a brilliant and hilarious guy, who some of you might like), and he was talking about Pozidriv screws in his most recent video. In passing, he also mentioned JIS, and said "if you have an old Japanese bike."

Wait. I have an old Japanese bike. To the forum! And here I am, bumping up this thread again, for fellow newcomers.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-28-2018, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
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Funny, I was just watching a video by AvE on YouTube (a brilliant and hilarious guy, who some of you might like), and he was talking about Pozidriv screws in his most recent video. In passing, he also mentioned JIS, and said "if you have an old Japanese bike."

Wait. I have an old Japanese bike. To the forum! And here I am, bumping up this thread again, for fellow newcomers.
Bondhus hex ball driver is the way to go, in my experience, especially for the carb boots and the needle diaphragm covers. With the nine inch screwdriver handled ball driver, you can twist the carb boot clamp screws and the diaphragm cover screws at an up to 45 degree angle as easily as straight on and the socket head cap screws don't slip.

If anyone is interested, see these posts:

https://www.vn750.com/forum/1265775-post26.html

https://www.vn750.com/forum/1265809-post28.html

Also, an Ace hardware red handled screw driver with four tips takes a good grip on Phillips or JIC screws.
There is a large and small Phillips bit and a large and small flat blade bit. The small flat blade bit is perfect for removing and installing carb jets.

"I need yo clothes, yo boots and yo motocycle."- Uncle Bob
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