Clutch engaged - should the rear wheel spin? - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums
 
 

 

Go Back   Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums > Technical Forum > Transmission / Rear End

Transmission / Rear End
Chattering Clutch? Transmission Trouble?
Rear End Woes? Splines Shot? Discuss it here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-16-2008, 05:57 PM
jar265 jar265 is offline
Junior Member
iTrader: (0)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Haven, CT
Posts: 1
jar265 is on a distinguished road
Question Clutch engaged - should the rear wheel spin?

Today, while doing an oil change on my '86 VN750, I noticed that when the bike is on it's center stand, the engine is running, it's in gear and the clutch is engaged, the rear wheel still spins. It would seem to me that if the clutch is adjusted correctly, the drive wheel should STOP spinning with the lever pulled. Am I wrong? Is the clutch adjustment off? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 08-16-2008, 07:10 PM
niterider's Avatar
niterider niterider is offline
Old Truck Junkie
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Roby Texas
Posts: 4,016
niterider will become famous soon enough
Will it stop turning if you apply the rear brake with the lever pulled in???
__________________
02 honda sabre 1100
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-16-2008, 07:22 PM
750Doug's Avatar
750Doug 750Doug is offline
Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S.E. Michigan
Posts: 2,850
750Doug has a spectacular aura about750Doug has a spectacular aura about
I think with the wheel hanging free and no "load" on it, it will spin a bit, I don't believe pulling the clutch is the same as neutral.

All the bikes I've had have done what you're describing, but not spinning what would be considered fast by any means, and if grabbed (outside the tire) it could be held still.

Maybe the clutch cable could be adjusted a little bit...

When you're sitting at a stop light or something with the clutch held in, does the bike keep trying to roll forward then, does the brake need to be held to keep it stopped?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-16-2008, 09:21 PM
Knifemaker's Avatar
Knifemaker Knifemaker is online now
HWLBTSDBTS
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Catawissa, MO
Posts: 8,793
Knifemaker has a spectacular aura aboutKnifemaker has a spectacular aura aboutKnifemaker has a spectacular aura about
This is normal and nothing to worry about. Some bikes even will get the rear wheel to turn with the engine running, on the centerstand...and in neutral.


I could tell you why it does this...but I just got home and want something to eat and drink...


KM
__________________
If You Are Not Sure If I Am Joking or Not....I AM !!Photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/knifemaker1954/sets/
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-16-2008, 09:35 PM
dirtrack650's Avatar
dirtrack650 dirtrack650 is offline
Senior Member
iTrader: (0)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Castle Rock, Wa
Posts: 1,750
dirtrack650 is on a distinguished road
With any wet clutch system, there will always be some 'hydraulic action' that gives the appearance of a sticky clutch when the lever is pulled in with no load on the rear wheel. The clutch plates may be pulled apart, but with fluid between them, there will be some spin (drag) even more when the oil is hot.

DT
__________________
95 VN750 (eBay)31k+
GL1100 front fender
OEM engine guard
OEM high back rest
'V-Twin' HWY pegs
Black 750 Spectre handlebars
SunPro Volt Meter (Amazon)
Maier bug shield (JCW)
Bar Ends anti-vibe (JCW)
Emgo air filters
Tank bag-Eclipse
Tail bag-FroZone Cooler
Back Rest-Igloo 6 pak cooler
WalMart Saddle Bags
R/R Relocate
Dry Splines Lubed
AGM DieHard-Sears
Gutted Goat
Sporster XL Mufflers
LED's-stop,tail,turn,marker
Pickup coil mod to .45mm
Silverstar headlight
Rotella T6
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-16-2008, 09:58 PM
rubyrick's Avatar
rubyrick rubyrick is offline
Love My Baby
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hollywood, Florida
Posts: 1,164
rubyrick will become famous soon enoughrubyrick will become famous soon enough
Correct me if I'm wrong (my wife does this frequently!), but I always thought that when you pulled the clutch lever in, your bike was essentially in neutral and the rear wheel should spin freely, not powered by the engine. This I thought meant the clutch was DISENGAGED.

I thought when the bike is in gear and you let go of the clutch lever you ENGAGE the clutch and power is transfered from the engine to the rear wheel.

If this is true then when the bike is on the center stand with the engine running, pulling in the clutch lever in disengages the clutch and allows the rear wheel to spin freely on it's own, not powered by the engine. When the bike is in gear and the clutch lever is released the clutch is engaged and the rear wheel is powered by the engine, so it shouldn't spin freely, it should spin as fast as the throttle makes it go.

I think anything else would be abnormal. The rear wheel shouldn't be controlled by the throttle when the clutch is pulled in (disengaged) just as it shouldn't if the bike was in neutral.

Am I wrong? My wife would be overjoyed once again!!
__________________
Rubyrick

MY BABY...
'05 VN750
15,500 miles +
Kawi tank bib
Kawi rear rack
Small windshield
YUASA M/F battery
VN750.com Grill Cover
LED license plate frame
Clear Alternatives LED brake light
Cortech mini tank bag on rear rack
Pirelli MT66 Tires: 110 front / 150 rear
Splines lubed when tires installed at 10,650 miles
Splines lubed again at 14,400 with stubby valve stem install

Place your mouse on the X below and drag to the O

X
Even though you can't see Him, GOD is there! O
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-16-2008, 10:03 PM
niterider's Avatar
niterider niterider is offline
Old Truck Junkie
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Roby Texas
Posts: 4,016
niterider will become famous soon enough
It all has to do with the oil in the trans. As explained above the clutch has some drag due to the oil and the gears also have some drag to the others due to the oil in the trans. This is what causes the wheel to turn. If the rear brake is applied the wheel will stop.
__________________
02 honda sabre 1100
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-16-2008, 10:43 PM
hyperbuzzin's Avatar
hyperbuzzin hyperbuzzin is offline
and the Adventure Cycle
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Western PA
Posts: 6,114
hyperbuzzin will become famous soon enoughhyperbuzzin will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by niterider View Post
If the rear brake is applied the wheel will stop.....
....without the engine dying.
If the bike were in gear, and you did that, the engine would die, just like if you'd come to a stop and not pull the clutch in.
__________________

AKA: Tim & 'The Adventure Cycle' VROC #24567, NEVROC, SteelCity VROC


"When life throws you curves,
Aim for the apex."

Author Unknown

.......... Vulcan Verses - Table of Contents ..........
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-16-2008, 11:20 PM
Knifemaker's Avatar
Knifemaker Knifemaker is online now
HWLBTSDBTS
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Catawissa, MO
Posts: 8,793
Knifemaker has a spectacular aura aboutKnifemaker has a spectacular aura aboutKnifemaker has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubyrick View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong (my wife does this frequently!), but I always thought that when you pulled the clutch lever in, your bike was essentially in neutral and the rear wheel should spin freely, not powered by the engine. This I thought meant the clutch was DISENGAGED....


Am I wrong? My wife would be overjoyed once again!!

No you are not wrong...but this has nothing to do with the wheel spinning when it is off the ground and the bike is in gear...AND the clutch is "disengaged".

Kind of hard to give you a good example of what is happening, but think of two pulleys connected with a belt. You turn one pulley and it turns the other..which lets say turns a huge metal fan. Now, if you loosen the belt slowly by pushing the pulleys together, at some point it will not be able to turn the big fan but will slip on the pulley it is connected to. The weight of the fan (it's mass) has overcome the friction and until you tighten the belt up a bit, the fan will not spin..BUT if you were to somehow disconnect the big fan from its pulley. you would greatly reduce the mass ...and even though the belt is still slipping some, it would start to turn that pulley..because the mass is no longer working against the friction. You could take your hand and stop the pulley with very little force, causing the belt to slip again.

Same thing is going on with your clutch..the plates are still making very light contact even when the clutch lever is pulled in. But instead of just mass like the fan, it is the counter amount of friction of the wheel touching the ground. Put the wheel in the air, you lose that bit of "holding power" and the wheel will begin to turn slowly...opening the throttle most likely will not make the speed of that wheel increase by the way...because raising the inertia of the "drive" clutch plates might actualy make them slip more when set against the "driven" plates..whose inertia is the same.

Oil does factor in this as the oil between the plates is causing the actual contact. Not really sure if how much oil tempature factors in here, but it is the "Stiction" of the two oiled plates that causes this whole thing to occour. (Take a small thin flat sheet of of metal and coat it with oil, slap it against a smooth wall and let go..it will slide down the wall...but ..it is sticking to the wall...)

When you are sitting on the bike and the wheel is on the ground, your weight, the weight of the bike and the contact of the tire on the road all increase the static friction of the wheel so much that it overcomes the light input to turn, and thus you would never notice it. Raise the bike off the ground and you remove all that.

So..as I said, normal , do not worry about it.

KM
__________________
If You Are Not Sure If I Am Joking or Not....I AM !!Photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/knifemaker1954/sets/
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-16-2008, 11:35 PM
kay kay is offline
carbon unit
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 356
kay is on a distinguished road
my brother had an old dodge truck with a manual transmission. One day he had the rear on jack stands. he replaced the rear brakes and when he finished he started the motor while it was still on the stands just for the heck of it. and the wheels turned with the transmission in neutral. My Royal infield does this to.
Not sure about my vulcan but I would'nt be surprised if the wheel spins; while on the stand, even with the clutch pulled. and I'm certain my clutch is properly adjusted.
__________________
There's nothing like having the time to sun yourself on the hood of an old truck, on a cool day.

Last edited by kay; 08-16-2008 at 11:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:51 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.