As this is the first thread for this post, I'll reprint the core thought of what was posted and discussed in depth in later posts at the yahoo vn750 group ( http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/VN750 )- starting at post 53107.

The bike has less than 8k miles on it and as per the advice of this board I decided to get myself some Honda 60% moly and check out my drive shaft splines just for the heck of it. I was amazed at what I found. The coupling drive shaft is almost completly worn down - and I don't drive the bike that hard.

I found NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER of any grease that was ever applied to the splines. The coupler cost almost $90 to replace and the final drive is almost $1000 !!! The spline gear on the final drive is NOT replaceable or should I say is not a replacement part from Kawasaki. The entire final drive assembly has to be purchased.

Please see the 4 pics I posted under mainevulcan at the yahoo vn750 group to see the splines.
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vn750/lst?.dir=/mainevulcan&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vn750/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26.src=gr%26.view=t

Bottom line for anyone who has bought either new or used...
1. Kawasaki recommends lubing the drive splines @ 6000mi. IF YOU HAVE A NEW BIKE, EITHER DO THE MAINTENANCE YOURSELF OR GET THE DEALER TO SPECIFICALLY DO THIS AS PART OF YOUR 6000MI CHECKUP (preferrably sooner). THEY PROBABLY WILL NOT PERFORM THIS UNLESS YOU 'REMIND' THEM THAT IT IS SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE.
2. If you have bought used, GET THE REAR WHEEL OFF ASAP AND CHECK THIS. It is pretty easy to do, requires no special tools other than a Clymer's manual.
Ultimately, it is our responsibility as owners to ensure our rides are taken care of. This is standard maintenance for any shaft driven bike, often overlooked. On the VN750 it is relatively easy....

'99 with 8k mi. After looking at all info ya'll put out over the
last 6 mo, I tackled this job tonight. Put the bike on the
centerstand, removed the axle nut with my 12" Crescent wrench
getting it between the swingarm and the stock pipe.
Removed both shocks and swingarm came down, but lower right shock
mount/bolt hit the pipe. Loosened all three 10mm bracket bolts
where the goat and pipe mount on the right. Flexed outward enough
to let the swingarm fall with the axle just below the pipes. Tapped
out the axle with a hammer.
Removed right side spacer and removed brake/hub to frame arm bolt
and hardware attaching brake rod to hub.
Pulled wheel to right and with it loose, cocked it 30 degrees inside
the swingarm.
Loosened 4 bolts on rear spline housing and pulled whole unit out.
Pulled wheel out from between swingarm.
Was happy to see lots of grease (don't think it was moly though) on
rear unit.
Pulled off left side panel and popped off rear of rubber boot at
it's top at front of swingarm/driveshaft. Held it open at the top
with large screwdriver and shine flashlight inside. Not happy to
see no grease or lube of any kind on front spline or U-joint; dry as
a bone and a tiny bit of rust/corrosion on the front splines.
Condition of the metal is fine.
Stick a toothbrush into the cylinder of Honda Moly 60 grease and
insert it into cavity and brush on grease to the front spline while
turning the shaft with hand at the back. Get a reasonable amount of
grease on the front spline. Then take my Honda Spray lithium grease
and spray the front U-joint while turning the shaft at the back.
Then button up the rubber boot at the front.
In the back, take plastic teaspoon and load it up helping wise with
grease and put down the hole where the spring was and the rear
spline goes into the shaft. Do this again. Put the spring back
into the hole.
Put the wheel between the swingarm at 30 degrees and put the rear
unit back on its 4 bolts. Push on it and tighten the bolts in a
criss cross fashion till snug. Tighten with torque wrench to 17.5
ft-lbs.
Do a reverse of other steps above - axle tightens to 80 ft-lbs.

All finished. Before putting on the shocks and the axle was at
lowest point, I was able to fit my 27mm socket on the nut and torque
it to 80 ft-lbs. Then I put the shocks back on, right side first,
and torqued their acorn nuts to 22 ft-lbs. Last was to tighten the
10mm right side pipe/passenger foot peg bracket 3 nuts and then
install the left side cover. Done until 18k mi.

Went pretty well for me.
rgds
Mike
'99 in Nawlins'

Mike..great write-up. This is a fairly uncomplicated, yet often overlooked maintainence item.
Did you do the splines between the rear wheel hub and the final gear case? They should get a light coat of Moly also. Clymer's also suggests you brush a little grease between the inner & outer (the spinning part) of the rear wheel hub. Not as mission-critical as the shaft splines, but should be done periodically anyway.
When I did mine, I 'indexed' the hub and final gear case as well as the splines inside. I did this so I could re-mesh the splines and the hub they same way they came off...I figured the meshing of the gears would be smoother this way. Anal, I know, but some riders in the BMW forums I lurk in have found that in a shaftie, the wheel could rotate 'out of perfect balance' because of the wear incurred after 10,000mi on the splines....

Just left out one (but important) step that I'm sure you actually did. Install NEW cotter pin in axle nut and bend tabs into place. :-)

Yep, thanx for the reminders for all.
I did do those lubing steps. Was able to find a big cotter pin for axle nut.
Also there's the new (little) cotter pin on bolt/nut on hub which has the arm connecting to frame to keep brake hub stationery.

From my racing days, I was taught to only bend the longest arm of the cotter pin back around the nut and leave the short end alone.
I suppose there's probably other opinions. I read a book by Hurricane Bob Hannah's mechanic in the 70's and probably got some of my wrenching ideas from it. I also learned how to safety wire a racer, but that's another story.

I like the idea of indexing the two parts so the gears go together again the same as they came out. Wish I had thought of it myself, but say-la-vee !!!

That is all good stuff above. I'll just add a couple comments.
The reason (at least this time) that Kaw won't sell just the gear is that they are hand,custom built using shims to match up perfectly the pinion gears. Done (of course) at the factory. I suppose someone skilled and knowledgeable enough could do it himself, but most would just have a mess in a few miles.
When my final drive went, I also found my splines at the front bevel gear case were dry as a bone. They were in good shape, though. I think most of the wear at the rear coupling comes from the in-out, rather than the round & round .... this doesn't happen up front. Am I wrong?
BTW: Ron Ayers had that coupling for $50 and I found the final drive (with 4k miles on it) on ebay for $120.

grambo


grambo

A final drive with 4k miles for only $120 ?? Heck, if I came across that I'd buy one just to have as a spare and save the $800 + dollars Kawasaki wants for a new one. If you needed it, I'm glad for you that you found one. My butt was saved just because I was still under warrantee - but then again it should have been lubed from the factory to begin with.

We (VROCers) have determined that molybdenum disulfide grease is essentail for the final drive splines. But what about splines inside the housing? The ring type gears. Should they be also lubed with MD?
Bob

We (VROCers) have determined that molybdenum disulfide grease is essentail for the final drive splines. But what about splines inside the housing? The ring type gears. Should they be also lubed with MD?
Bob....yes.
Moly on the wheel hub-FD mating gears, on & in the shaft/FD coupling, the front splines, and even on the U-joint if you can get some there.
IIUC, Moly adheres to metal better than anything but Krytox, so why not use the best stuff you can get while you're dong the job.

Thanks for the reply John.
I've got the bike torn down for maintenance including the rear end.
I've used MD on the drive shaft splines, but never thought about using it on
the wheel hub or u-joint.
Bob

I checked mine and found my worst nightmare. A red powder and hardly any splines on the final drive and drive shaft. Have only had the bike ten months with 16,000 miles on it. I am going to find a way to find a "field fix" for this ongoing problem. Once I do, I will post it. I went back to the dealer where I purchased the bike and talked to the service dept. These guys had no clue and have never heard of it and wont do it as part of maintenence. The manager on duty was going to check it out and come to this web page.

I checked mine and found my worst nightmare. A red powder and hardly any splines on the final drive and drive shaft. Have only had the bike ten months with 16,000 miles on it. I am going to find a way to find a "field fix" for this ongoing problem. Once I do, I will post it. I went back to the dealer where I purchased the bike and talked to the service dept. These guys had no clue and have never heard of it and wont do it as part of maintenence. The manager on duty was going to check it out and come to this web page.

...biker, sorry to hear this. Did you buy your ride new??

Yup...no clue. I think alot, if not most, dealers and so called 'techs' are clueless abt this crucial maintenance, which should be done well before the Kaw recomendation of 6000mi, IMHO. Mine wasn't, that's for sure.
And it should be obvious to the casual tech/maint. department that a shaft driven bike with a drive system as basic as the VN750 must be lubricated periodically...and should be part of any 'in-warrantee' service you bring to them for, ESP before 6000mi. But if you don't bring it to them for service before 6k, they can't check the splines, even if they are savvy enough.
From my personal experience, this is the problem.
We, as riders/owners are ultimately responsible for the care of our rides...but we (some of us) depend heavily on the dealer. I know I did (the 750 being my first shaftie), thus did not ask mine about this when I brought my ride in @600mi, then 3000mi then 6000mi then 11800mi for in warrantee checkups. Why???
My own ignorance (solved that problem) and the fact that their 'Warrantee Service Checklist' says they..."performed all maintenance as per the Kawasaki Service Manual". Obviously, they did not, as mine looked just like you describe when it blew up @20000mi (going 60mph, btw)
That's why they bought me a new drive shaft, coupler & final drive! (about $1500, I paid for labor).
You might be looking at the same repair....
Bottom line...if you took it to them for 'in-warrantee' checkups (esp before 6000mi), and they never heard of this maintanence, you may have some leverage. Educate them (so sad..)..have them open up the Service Manual and read it for themselves.
If you've never had it back to them, you're probably sol...unless there has been a recall or tech bulletin that covers this.
Field fix??? Everyone who owns a 750 should get that back wheel off asap and check, then get on a reg schedule to do this themselves.
As far as Kaw and it's dealers are concerned...good luck.

I just checked mine last weekend and found rust. I took pictures and took them in to my dealer. The mechanic there knew exactly what I drove when I showed him the pictures.

Sounds like you might have a good mechanic then.. At least he had a clue. ;-)

RB

I just checked mine last weekend and found rust. I took pictures and took them in to my dealer. The mechanic there knew exactly what I drove when I showed him the pictures.

Hi,

New member. I'm scanning the various posts. THis one about the drive Caught my attenion.

I got my new 2002 VN 750 from dealer in '03. I Have 12,159miles on it.

I asked dealer maint. Supvr about lubing the drive shaft when I asked about doing the 6K miles service.

He told me it's Not needed now and to wait until I replace the Rear tire.
I'm 135# soaking wet, ride solo. At 12,159K miles, my stock(Dunlop) rear tire is still Good. I paid for the 6K miles service and now, I find out the MOST important task should have been done but was Not. I have Extended warrenty too, that expires Aug 2006.

The dealer of purchase has since sold him dearlership to a Big Corp group in my area who has ALL the Big 4 bike Mfgrs.

Do I have any recourse about this work not done (Kawa Corp, have another dearlership do it no cost)?
------------
I do oil/oil-filter, air-filter, chng plugs. But don't know how to do carb synch, set timing.

I have been and still have grease thrown onto the rear rim . So I would think this indicates there's still grease in there. Ans I see grease on the edges of the wheel hub where the two parts fit together.
-----------------------
Are there any 750 owners in my area -N. Calif. Bay Area- Newark, who could help me?
I'll pay you for your time.

Hi,

New member. I'm scanning the various posts. THis one about the drive Caught my attenion.

I got my new 2002 VN 750 from dealer in '03. I Have 12,159miles on it.

I asked dealer maint. Supvr about lubing the drive shaft when I asked about doing the 6K miles service.

He told me it's Not needed now and to wait until I replace the Rear tire.
I'm 135# soaking wet, ride solo. At 12,159K miles, my stock(Dunlop) rear tire is still Good. I paid for the 6K miles service and now, I find out the MOST important task should have been done but was Not. I have Extended warrenty too, that expires Aug 2006.

The dealer of purchase has since sold him dearlership to a Big Corp group in my area who has ALL the Big 4 bike Mfgrs.

Do I have any recourse about this work not done (Kawa Corp, have another dearlership do it no cost)?
------------
I do oil/oil-filter, air-filter, chng plugs. But don't know how to do carb synch, set timing.

I have been and still have grease thrown onto the rear rim . So I would think this indicates there's still grease in there. Ans I see grease on the edges of the wheel hub where the two parts fit together.
-----------------------
Are there any 750 owners in my area -N. Calif. Bay Area- Newark, who could help me?
I'll pay you for your time.
FT...I don't know about recourse, and I certainly don't want to alarm you or anybody, but I would pay the 2hrs labor it should take and get someone to check those splines ASAP, if you're not ready to do the job yourself.
If you were actually savvy enough to ask about this at your 6k service...kudos!!

Your 'Maint Supervisor' is a fool and another example of the poor knowledge/service out there. It clearly states in the Kaw service manual to check this at 6000mi...good on ya for asking him about it!

I (and a lot of others) didn't....the rest is history. You've read the posts... Waiting to replace your rear tire before these splines are checked (esp since they haven't been checked at 6k like they should have been) is risky and could be dangerous! Your stock Dunlops lasted longer than my stock Stones, but my first set of Metzeler880s lasted me over 22000mi!
How long would you want to wait????

The grease being flung on your rear wheel is (hopefully) NOT from the splines in question....it is from the wheel hub - final drive mesh gears...they are OUTSIDE of the final drive. No big deal...just a bit too much grease applied there. I say 'hopefully not' because the only way you could be seeing grease from the splines in question is if the O-ring that holds all the grease inside the coupler (buried inside the swingarm) has come loose/deteriorated and grease has leaked past the bevel gear into the final drive housing and out of the vent hole on top of the FD and onto your wheel....This would be WAY BAD!!! So your grease on the wheel is NO indication of any lube still being on the splines in question!

Fortunately...the above type of leaking is probably next to impossible. Not for the O-ring to break mind you, but for the grease to leak out this way. Most likely, you would see grease 'leaking' right at the connection between the FD and the swingarm, not on the wheel.
The splines in question...the CRUCIAL, neglected area, are the splines that connect the final drive to the driveshaft, via a coupler. These are hidden in swingarm tube...the rear wheel must be removed, and the FD taken off the swingarm.
I'd take the OM into the dealer and show them this maint requirement....educate them! Then pay for the service...you'll ride much more confidently.
Chances are, you did not pay for all the labor/parts necessary to do this anyway on your 6k service....most times the dealer will just do the routine stuff, charge you 1 1/2hrs or so, and that's it. That's how I got a brand new FD, shaft and coupler at 20000mi from my dealer...NO WAY did they spend or charge me enough time at my 500, 3000, 6000 or 12000mi services...no way. They admitted it...
Get it checked ASAP...
Rant off!

I found some moly grease at my local part store but it doesn't say what the % of moly it is, so my question is should I get it at $3 for 14 oz tube or spend the $10 for 3 oz tube at the honda shop?

I found some moly grease at my local part store but it doesn't say what the % of moly it is, so my question is should I get it at $3 for 14 oz tube or spend the $10 for 3 oz tube at the honda shop?
I would guess that the inexpensive 14oz stuff probably would not contain the (at very least) 55~60% moly you want. Go for the good stuff....

Anyone ever considered Neversieze copper grease ?
Or best to stick with what we know will work?

The Moly is the specified lube.. At least one spline failure may have been a result of a dealer using something else (I kinda suspect they may have used lard or bear grease or something like that) but it didn't hold up to the expected interval. in fact it fell way short or 12,000 miles (by about 10,000 miles I think!)
The cost of the Moly may seem a bit high, but a little goes a long ways. I believe one tube will do three of four applications

Anyone ever considered Neversieze copper grease ?
Or best to stick with what we know will work?
I used a synthetic grease (pinkish red in color) made by Mobil 1. Got it at Schucks Auto. The guy working there has a shaft drive Honda and has over 100,000 miles on his bike and he uses that grease on his drive shaft and say's it works great.

I use "Sta-Lube" General Purpose Lithium Grease from O'Reilly Auto Parts. It's a high temperature grease. I just checked the splines in my A11 after running 10K since the last time I repacked it in July 2003, and there was still plenty of grease in the drive shaft coupling, even with a blown O-ring. (I think I got the O-ring in the wrong groove on the pinion shaft last time, and that caused it to get torn. There are two grooves next to each other that the O-ring will rest in. I remember trying to decide which groove was correct, since my book isn't real clear about it. I'll see how it works out this time.)

CD in Frederick, OK

I took my 2003 in for its 6,000 mile maintenance at 5,900 miles. I gave the dealer a copy of the VN750 write-ups on the driveshaft lubrication and specifically requested that they do this maintenance.

They gave me the same song and dance to wait until it was time to change the rear tire. They said that they had never had any problems at all with any VN750s. I told them to do it anyway. You have to be your own advocate. Stand your ground!

Upon inspection, they said that they did find factory lubrication. However, I can sleep peacefully knowing that it was lubed at the factory, and done again at 5,900 miles. If there is ever a problem with the shaft, I have the extended warranty and a copy of the written service order specifically requesting the driveshaft maintenance to fall back on. Keep your maintenance records! They might save you some $ someday.

I took my 2003 in for its 6,000 mile maintenance at 5,900 miles. I gave the dealer a copy of the VN750 write-ups on the driveshaft lubrication and specifically requested that they do this maintenance.

They gave me the same song and dance to wait until it was time to change the rear tire. They said that they had never had any problems at all with any VN750s. I told them to do it anyway. You have to be your own advocate. Stand your ground!

Upon inspection, they said that they did find factory lubrication. However, I can sleep peacefully knowing that it was lubed at the factory, and done again at 5,900 miles. If there is ever a problem with the shaft, I have the extended warranty and a copy of the written service order specifically requesting the driveshaft maintenance to fall back on. Keep your maintenance records! They might save you some $ someday.Good job, RR.
This is the best advice I've read all day... ;)

Remember, per the OM Kaw says to check this at 6000mi...irregardless of what dealer 'techs' (for lack of a better word) say. It's SO easy to do, it makes no sense NOT to check it....

Thanks for the information, I just got done with my 2005 VN750 with only 6500 miles on it. Yes even the new bikes are coming out of the factory with little to no grease. Without this forum I cant tell you the mess down the road I might of had, again thanks

I just did my 1996 vn750 with about 5000 miles on it. Would you believe the splines in the back had grease but the front splines did not have a bit of grease. Good advice thanks

Just finished my 2004 with 7,440 miles. There was the slightest amount of lube inside the coupling. The splines were dry. Splines all looked ok, but wouldn't have been for very long. Thanks for the heads up!!

One note on the front splines.. they take very little lube. Pulling the boot back and spraying with white lithium will do the front just fine. The reason? They do not have the movement that the back splines do.

Man, I gotta get a look at mine. My project for next weekend.

'95 with 16k mi... front and rear had grease - relubed. BTW, the front spline is a real bear to get back on if totally uncoupled.
Haven't checked the '05 yet.

Did my splines today...wow.
first went to the dealer to get the shaft's o rings, but they didnt have them in stock. and then the parts guy wanted to know why i needed them. lol, so i told him. he went off on the bulletproof rampage, and said if there was an issue kawasaki would have fixed it by now. no to jinx my bike, but i remember the Titantic as being reffered to as unsinkable. i should have taken pics to show them.....

i have an '04 with 5.2k mi...guessing it suffers from dry spline syndrome too... when i opened it all that came out was just a lil powder(metal like) and that was it, no grease at all... used the vulcan verses on this, helped alot.

anyone have a problem with the front rubber boot covering the upper part of the shaft? mine was completely off and turned 90 degrees( seems like its a rounded triangle?) i also threw some rtv on the shaft housing/ final drive matting so that should slow some moisture comming in during the rains...

Two years ago I asked a Kawasaki Engineer about the Splines and what had been done about it. His reply was.. They had notified the Dealers that this was an area that needed to be checked and reminded them of the required maintenance as specifed in the Owners Manual. He also indicated that several notifications had gone out to the Dealers. Next time I run into one of them I will ask if there is a specific notification number.
Several of the reports of failed splines involved the lube supposedly done by the dealer and the wrong lube used (not-moly) or the final gear oil change being done instead of the spline.
Tell your dealer to check some of his past notifications!

Check your drive splines ASAP!!!!

Hello Jim1515,
Is it important to use only Honda Moly 60 grease? I see it for sale at various websites and it is only 3 ounce containers. How much is required to do the job?

Would any good grease work like the red Dryden bearing grease or must it be the Honda Moly 60 grease or some other Moly grease?
Thanks,
Sam612

Sam612,

Because of a high shear factor, you must use a Moly grease such as the Honda Moly or a lubricant called Krytox. Due to cost, few people use krytox.

Do u think my splines are shot if the bike has 15k and they still work? Any input???

When your splines are REALLY shot, you will have 5 speeds of netural.

Hello Jim1515,
Is it important to use only Honda Moly 60 grease? I see it for sale at various websites and it is only 3 ounce containers. How much is required to do the job?

Would any good grease work like the red Dryden bearing grease or must it be the Honda Moly 60 grease or some other Moly grease?
Thanks,
Sam612
Sam...you definitely want to use the Moly or other 'equivalent' grease. Kaw specs this in the repair manual. Regular bearing grease, 'high temp' or not, will not cut it....
I'll post a link to the page where I bought my 8oz jar of Loctite 60% Moly paste for about $20 + shipping from
www.use-enco.com.
After brushing some on the splines themselves, about 2 teaspoons are used to 'pack' the collar. An 8oz jar will easily last you 4~5 spline lubes....front and back.

When your splines are REALLY shot, you will have 5 speeds of netural.

So u thin kthat my splines r ok?

There is absolutely no way to tell for sure until you pull the rear wheel and have a look.
I have no idea what kind of maintenance was done on your bike, what was used or anything else.
Let's put it this way.. IF you are the original owner, and you last lubed your splines at 6,000 miles, you are due for another spline lube.
If you aren't the original owner, and don't know when they were checked last, take the hour or two and get that wheel off and check them.

Simple answer.. If you don't know.. Check ASAP!

Sam...you definitely want to use the Moly or other 'equivalent' grease. Kaw specs this in the repair manual. Regular bearing grease, 'high temp' or not, will not cut it....
I'll post a link to the page where I bought my 8oz jar of Loctite 60% Moly paste for about $20 + shipping from
www.use-enco.com.
After brushing some on the splines themselves, about 2 teaspoons are used to 'pack' the collar. An 8oz jar will easily last you 4~5 spline lubes....front and back.

Here's a place to buy Moly....

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMIP&PMPXNO=947485&PMAKA=505-1197

So u thin kthat my splines r ok?

Yes, and to keep them that way make sure they are lubed if you have not done so already.

The Kawasaki VN750 service manual has a interval (10k?, 20?, double check) on how often it needs to be done. Most make sure to do it after they get the bike and as part of a rear tire replacement.

As I had the real wheel off anyway and after researching this site and the BMW spline site, I ordered the Dupont Krytox insead of the moly. The moly cost 1/3rd the Krytox but hey, it seems the Krytox drops the temperature of the heat by 150 degrees. If oil coolers make sense, so did this. I ordered it where the BMW site recommended: $28. The Dupont 1-800 gave me a dealer in Baton Rouge but they didn't stock it so I figured I'd just skip them and get it mailed directly to me. Thank you all for this needed info!!!! and the site operators for this great place. Ken

Here's a place to buy Moly....

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMIP&PMPXNO=947485&PMAKA=505-1197
Hi jm1515,
Is that stuff better than the Honda Moly 60 at this link for $7.98? It is about the same price I suppose since this is for only a 3 oz. tube and the link you have in your reply is for 8 oz. of the paste.
Thanks,
Sam

http://www.casporttouring.com/store/merchant.mvc?store_code=CST&screen=PROD&product_code=23500


Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1515
Sam...you definitely want to use the Moly or other 'equivalent' grease. Kaw specs this in the repair manual. Regular bearing grease, 'high temp' or not, will not cut it....
I'll post a link to the page where I bought my 8oz jar of Loctite 60% Moly paste for about $20 + shipping from
www.use-enco.com.
After brushing some on the splines themselves, about 2 teaspoons are used to 'pack' the collar. An 8oz jar will easily last you 4~5 spline lubes....front and back.


Here's a place to buy Moly....

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PMAKA=505-1197
__________________
john magda
Columbus, OH
VROC #11290


Hi jm1515,
Is that stuff better than the Honda Moly 60 at this link for $7.98? It is about the same price I suppose since this is for only a 30 oz. tube and the link you have in your post is for 8 oz.
Thanks,
Sam

http://www.casporttouring.com/store/merchant.mvc?store_code=CST&screen=PROD&product_code=23500

[QUOTE=Sam612]Hi jm1515,
Is that stuff better than the Honda Moly 60 at this link for $7.98? It is about the same price I suppose since this is for only a 3 oz. tube and the link you have in your reply is for 8 oz. of the paste.
Thanks,
Sam[quote]

Sam...the Honda stuff is fine. Maybe more readily available.
My bad tho...the Loctite #51048 above is actually 65% Moly...more Moly for yer money...;)

750 Freak, DON'T assume that since you bike runs fine that your splines are OK! It's not something that you want to take lightly! My 02 that I just bought runs fine, like a new bike, but I pulled my rear wheel and red rust powder fell from the rear splines, and they are worn badly. I cleaned and packed them with moly and put it back together, and am now very soft on the throttle, but the bike still seems fine.

I just bought a final drive and drive shaft from an 85 vn700 for just over $100 and am waiting to get them. I got a money back guarantee so I'll wait to see what shape they're in before making any judgements on them, but reguardless, I'll be back in there soon replacing parts.

When I bought the bike, I took it straight to a KAW dealership to have the tires replaced. I had read here and on the yahoo group about this, but wasn't nearly clear about it. I asked the tech to check it and lube them, and he didn't know what I was talking about. Ultimately, he just changed the gear oil and still didn't check the splines! They had a strict policy about not having customers in the shop, but the manager even called me in there to explain what I meant to the tech, as the manager didn't know what I was talking about. Even after explaining to the tech, he still didn't do what I asked, even having the wheel off and it was right there in front of him. He never pulled it apart to see. So, imagine my frustration when I finally pulled it apart and found it dry and filled with rust powder...

What ever it takes, check it out yourself, even if you have to get your shop to pull it apart for you, it's worth what ever labor you have to pay. If you have tools, and a torque wrench, you can do this. Just pick up a 27mm socket that fits on your torque wrench so you can torque the axel nut to spec. There are writeups that will help you here!

Well, dang it! I took my tire off, checked my splines (17,500 miles), and lo and behold, no wear! The front spline isn't lubed, but it is in like new condition. I will lube all before putting back together. I'm really mad that everything was OK. See, it means that I bought all that stuff for nothing, and took it all apart for nothing. What a bummer. C'est la vie. Now to get it all back together...

After having mine off twice in the last month, first to discover no lube and worn out, second to replace and lube, I wish I was mad like you!:beerchug:
I'd say it was worth the effort. Now you can quit thinking about it!
Cheers!

Who forgot to mention this????

OK, so I'm getting it all back together, and I put the axle in from the left side. Hmmm... I forgot the spacer. So I put the spacer in and hmmm... I've got the axle in backwards - the threads are on the right side. So, I pull it out and put it in the correct way. Oh, and I remembered the spacer. I start torqueing the nut. Wow, still isn't at 80 lbft, and the cotter pin hole is past the nut. Something is wrong. Ah, I forgot the washer. Ok, got the washer in place, got it torqued, got the cotter pin in. Then I put away my 27 mm socket and torque wrench, knowing I won't need it for a while. I hadn't changed the gear oil yet, so I drain the oil into a water bottle, sans water. I put the bolt back in, take the big plug off the side, and fill it up to the bottom of the plug with new oil. Next, I go to the right side of the bike, and grab the brake cover, and try to rotate into place so that I can put the brake rod on. It won't budge. I try again. Still won't budge. Ok, so like who failed to mention that the brake cover gets locked in place when the axle is torqued down? Man, I'm gonna waste a cotter pin! AND I gonna have to get my torque wrench back out.

Now you know why I was upset when I didn't find any damage/corrosion to my splines. That would have given me a warm fuzzy, knowing that I had done something good. My little oversight wouldn't have been such a big deal. But now it is, so I'm gonna wait until tomorrow to finish it.

*sigh*

Sorry, if it was my procedure you were going by to do this. I've just updated it to be much more specific in the order of disassembly and re-assembly.

It was 100 degrees when I was doing this Sunday, and believe me, I understand how repeating steps can be frustrating. I was under the shade of the carport, but that just kept me from sunburn. I was pouring and moping sweat the entire time.

Fergy - No problem. It's just typical of mechanical work and me. You'll see that I'm NOT a mechanical engineer. For a reason.

I see that your'e near Austin. The temps in Bryant follow Dallas closely. We also get Dallas' weather. Our heat factor yesterday was 100 (temp was mid-upper 90's), so I'm with ya on the sweat factor. I have to wear a headband whenever I work outside, or I soon won't be able to see.

On the flip side, I got the axle nut loosened and the brake hooked back up. The only problem I ran into today was getting the left shock on. The right went on with a little tire lifting, but I had to stick my hydraulic cylinder jack under the final drive to get the the left shock on. It was missing by about 1/8", and I couldn't physically lift the tire any more with the other shock in place (besides, it SOOO wanted to come off the center stand).

It's these little nuances that prevent me from doing so much more...

How's your camera?

Yep, I wear a sweat band as well. Glasses are a pita! Camera is working sometimes. The batteries are pushing pretty hard on the door and a couple of the little teeth broke off that hold it closed so it's pushed partly open. Sometimes it turns off on it's own and sometimes it just won't come on. No biggie. I still have the "good" camera that I use for the non-greasy work.

I checked and lubed my splines today,not good news. There was absolutly no grease anywhere on the splines,there was definate wear but i dont know how bad.I will run it awhile and see what happens.2002 750 Vulcan 6000 miles.

I did mine yesterday on my 1995 VN750. It was last done about 8k miles ago when I had the ME880 put on. There was plenty of grease in the drive shaft coupler but the wheel splines were dry.

I checked my splines and i found grease on the rear drive splines but no grese up front at the u-joint...the splines were ok though...

Okay, y'all have me almost too scared to ride Surak now. I haven't checked the drive splines... yet. I just asked a friend to help me do that but he can't till Wednesday. He's also my Amsoil dealer and will be bringing me a filter and oil so I can change it. As a fairly new "wrench wench" I'm hesitant to take my bike that far apart for fear I'll not get it back together right! I bought my bike used. It had 10K miles on it and now has 14K, but as far as I know, the splines and final drive have never been checked. I have never had any problems with it at all. I also don't have the maintanance free battery that everyone on here reccomends. The fellow at Battery Warehouse talked me out of it. He told me that it was a waste of money for me. I was a pushover and went with the regular battery, and I must say that for the last three years the regular battery has been perfectly fine and my bike starts every time, runs beautifully and has never had a hint of a problem. Still, every time I get on here I feel guilty!
I plan on riding to Indiana PA today but I'm paranoid now after rejoining this group and reading these posts concerning stators and drive splines! Maybe I ought to just let it sit till Wednesday when Ray can give me a hand. Either way, I sure do appreciate the step by step details given here. They will come in very handy. Ray's a great guy and a fine bike mechanic but I don't want to entirely trust my wonderful VN750 to a guy who rides Suzukis (not to mention he's my ex-boyfriend...and I really hope he doesn't have any hard feelings left before he takes a wrench to my motorcycle..haha)!

Kawgirl, don't be paranoid, just ride and have fun. Your year isn't prone to the problems with the splines, but check them when you get the chance. They don't give any indication there's a problem until they go, so there's no use in constant worrying about it.

Checked out your pics! Nice! You and that bike look like you were made for each other!

Your bike has to be the nicest lookin VN750 I've ever laid my eyes on.

Like the chrome border on the fenders and gas tank and the color matched
windshield. Has that female touch to the customizing.

It's a real hot bike. :pepper:

Never had much luck with Circlip's, have bought expensive tools to remove
circlip's but some just seem to have more tension than others, apparently
the VN750's Circliip's don't have too much tension? I have a riding Honda
Lawnmower that I never could remove the Circlip's from the wheel - axel.

Since I will only be checking the lube or lubing I shouldn't have to mess with
those nasty circlip's? :confused:

True! If you're lubing, you're good. Only need circlip pliers if you're replacing the coupling on the driveshaft, which you wouldn't be if you are just going in there to lube everything.

Thanks Norsseman and Fergy! There are few things I like more than a compliment on my bike! The trim around the tank, the fenders and windshield are actually just the plastic chrome-looking strips that Wal-Mart sells to edge car doors. They are really inexpensive, slide right onto the tank edge and the fenders and really dress it up nicely. I like the looks of it. My brother in law scoffs at my bike being too girly but when I talked him into taking it for a spin (He's a Harley guy) he came back and had nothing but compliments for the bike. I was thinking of getting a red rose with a green stem on the tank and front fender. I know a tattoo artist who does fabulous airbrushing on bikes and trucks, but I wouldnt want to lose any respect by making it too girly!

The trim around the tank, the fenders and windshield are actually just the plastic chrome-looking strips that Wal-Mart sells to edge car doors.

I was thinking about using that stuff, but the black ones, on my bike.
The trim seems to give it more of a finished look.

As far as "Girly" looking bikes, I think they deserve all that much more respect. Shows that the girl riding it has put a part of her soul into the soul of the bike.
Now, if it's a guy "Girlying" up a bike .... that's a little different.

I'd say go for the red rose Kawgirl ! http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/msn5x/(F).gif
And maybe a couple of other smaller ones painted in some slightly inconspicuous, but noticable, places on the bike.

Good luck when ya start working on the final drive. I'm sure you'll get everything back together just fine.
I've been putting off doing mine. I'm hoping to have time to get to it in the next few weeks or so.

Kawgirl, if I can do it, so can you. Fergy's instructions are very good, and the *only* trouble you might have is getting that axle nut loose. But then, you look like you could beat the crap outta me, so you probably won't have any trouble at all.

Girly lookin' bikes are cool.

There's no limits to what a girl can do with a bike! I've seen some really cool girly bikes. I saw one that was real low to the ground, canary yellow, and had a tweety bird sitting on the back seat. It was really cool!

Thank God biker girls don't have to have beard stubble and buffalo breath to ride a bike!

Thanks for the warning and excellent write up. I pulled my wheel off Saturday using the procedure and found my splines all greased except for the front. I already had the Honda Moly so I figured I should coat everything with that at least. It feels smoother now and I think it's because the front had no lube. All the teeth look great though.

refvn750,

How many miles on your bike since the last Spine lube? What year is your bike?

Kawgirl,

Yes, a rose like you described should give your bike an additional touch of class.
I thought of putting those chrome or gold strips around my gas tank
and front fender also, but thought that there was one or two places where
the plastic strips are too close to engine heat. How are the strips working out for you?

Thanks Norsseman and Fergy! There are few things I like more than a compliment on my bike! The trim around the tank, the fenders and windshield are actually just the plastic chrome-looking strips that Wal-Mart sells to edge car doors. They are really inexpensive, slide right onto the tank edge and the fenders and really dress it up nicely. I like the looks of it. My brother in law scoffs at my bike being too girly but when I talked him into taking it for a spin (He's a Harley guy) he came back and had nothing but compliments for the bike. I was thinking of getting a red rose with a green stem on the tank and front fender. I know a tattoo artist who does fabulous airbrushing on bikes and trucks, but I wouldnt want to lose any respect by making it too girly!

Hi Kawgirl

I liked the look of the plastic chrome strip around the tank lip, but I found that in the heat the adhesive would soften and it started to droop off. I ended up taking it off. Do you have the same problem?

JoeM

refvn750,

How many miles on your bike since the last Spine lube? What year is your bike?
It's a 2001 and I'm a little over 3800.

refvn750,

How many miles on your bike since the last Spine lube? What year is your bike?
I should have said that's 3800 since the factory lube. Other than oil changes I've never put wrench to it before.

I just purchased used a few weeks ago from a diesel mechanic that had it for the past 3 years but claimed to only do his own work. He was the 2nd owner and the title indicated only 1500 miles of usage by him, so I'm guessing the previous owner must have been doing the "Real" maintenance. The guy I bought it from didn't even have a service manual and lived in the "Boon Docks of North Carolina". Got a deal though I think for $2200 with good tires and decent looking overall.

So... thanks everyone for this excellent resource website to provide me with what I need to know. Been promptly taking care of things as they come up.

Rear splines looked like they must have been serviced perhaps the last time the tire was replaced.

The splines engaging the wheel hub from the final drive also looked lubed.

The splines at the front of the driveshaft were a different story. Dry as a bone. A little bit of surface corrosion, but nothing like the horror stories I have heard about. No galling or wear that I could identify.... THANK GOD!!

I dug into my drawers and pulled out a tube of CRC Synthetic Brake Grease that I had from working on my cars. It was the best stuff I could find and have been using for years. I looked up what I could on the net and found this site: http://www.crcindustries.com/files/Syn.%20Brake%20Caliper%20Grease.pdf

I worked it into the splines and emptied the entire tube between the front splines, rear splines and final drive/wheel hub.

I would recommend you wear rubber gloves or something. This stuff has moly, graphite, and teflon. Beads water like wax, isn't wet or will wash off. I'm impressed with what I could find for information and the fact that I can still feel it on my hands a 24 hours later after multiples washings. I would wear rubber gloves if you can.

The next thing while buttoning it up was I noticed the rubber boot is a pressure fit design against the rear swing arm. I also noticed the four pull tabs on the boot which tells me I should pull the boot TOWARD the swingarm. I'm going to secure it with zip ties just to make sure it stays seated and seals out water. I think this may be part of the problem with some of the rust issues I saw from other guys experiences. Should be a drain hole for water to escape at the swingarm to final drive connection on the bottom side with a rubber nipple check valve to prevent water from going backing up into it.

Other than that, I also changed the final drive oil and used the spinning wheel backward trick to ensure I had it plenty full. I used Redline 75W90 Synthetic that I had left over from my rearend differential fluid change on my 300ZX. Almost thought I had big trouble when I was able to remove the inspection plug by hand!! Everything checked out with correct level and slightly dirty showing need for changing.

Next are my ACCT using Grambo trick, New Westco Battery (Ordered today), and stator fuses (purchased tonight).

Which size fuses did you get? 10 or 7.5 amps?

I did my spines at 17,000 miles and they were dry with some rust but not physical damage as of yet. If I had continued to ride without greasing them, I would have caused some major problems.

I greased them using a Moly grease designed for the boot knuckles of a car from Autozone. Cost: $4.00. I will check them again next year.

I am installing inline fuse holders with the caps to reduce contamination from water. I am installing Qty 3 20-amp fuses with each holder. Purchased at Autozone for $1.99 each.

20 amp won't do any good. Your stator puts out almost 5 amps per wire, but a 5 amp fuse is too close to use. Recommended is 7.5, 10 amps at the most.

You'll need to make sure you have some kind of voltmeter on your bike, otherwise you won't know if your fuses blow.

"Other than that, I also changed the final drive oil and used the spinning wheel backward trick to ensure I had it plenty full."

itlnstln13, let me know if you get a little dribble from the bottom of your final drive, a tiny leaky leaky from the square slot in the bottom. I did the reverse wheel spin and might have overfilled mine... or I gotta seal leaking a tiny bit. I noticed the dripping and opened the fill cap and oil poured out (bike on the centerstand) and this is after it had been sitting overnight. So I'm wondering if I caused the leaky..

Thanks for the updated fuse info cegodsey. I thought I had read in this forum to use 20 amp fuses.

I've also ordered 3300 uF capacitors meant for "high heat" resistance rated at 105 C. Plan on installing 2 of these in my battery leads. Plan on also doing this for a coworker of mine on 2 of his Honda bikes. Figure it can't hurt. Sounds like an excellent way to buffer the electrical system. I installed Qty 2 capacitors rated at a FULL 1 Farad in my car. What a difference that made not only for the stereo, pulsing lights from the stereo, etc but also in it's performance. Had more GET UP AND GO from low speed accelerations. With 2 of the 3300 uF capacitors in my system, I should be doing just fine for my little motorcycle.

To answer Fergy's question. I am leaving to Orlando tomorrow and won't have the chance to report my findings until next week. I started off buying a stainless stove for my kitchen at a heck of a deal and wound up making plans to not only pick it up there but also go to Universal Theme Park and it gets better with my timing..... if all goes well...... see the Shuttle launch on Sunday!!

Your dribble I'm guessing is probably due to the air hole on the back side of the final drive located between the final drive and wheel hub. I noticed this in the service manual. The hole is there for degassing and overfill expansion purposes to prevent internal pressure buildup. If oil is coming out, you probably overfilled a little. The worst that can happen is oil will continue to purge when it's gets hot until there is no more to purge. Just make sure your plugs are tight! As I mentioned, the previous guy only had the inspection plug finger tight!!

The original idea for the 20 amp comes from the rated output of the stator, which isn't the actual output. It's rated at 24 amps at 12 V, but in reality, it puts out 4.8 amps at 60V.

20 amp won't do any good. Your stator puts out almost 5 amps per wire, but a 5 amp fuse is too close to use. Recommended is 7.5, 10 amps at the most.

You'll need to make sure you have some kind of voltmeter on your bike, otherwise you won't know if your fuses blow.

Speaking from experience... 15 amp fuses in the stator wires will blow, along with anything lower. They won't blow often, but enough to where you want to carry some. Fuses should be matched to the size wire.
Where did you get your figures Cegodsey?
Actually I started with 15s and moved up to 20s. Recent discussions as far as "adding another possible fail point to the electrical" I will not be fusing wires when I do my stator replacement.
And yes, I do have the TOC stator cover mod and a new stator ready when needed since I replaced my failed stator with a used 86 one last year.

Couple of posts from the yahoo group concernng talks with emgineers and professors
These from Billy Greer...
Got an email from my duaghters professor and although I don't pretend
to understand the majority of his report, I do undersand his conclusion:

You are doing nothing by adding fuses in the circuit between the
stator and the voltage regulator except adding more failure points.
The stator is designed to output based upon engine rpm and is not
capable of producting more that about the equivilant of 16volts dc.
The voltage regulator should be in an area that gets plenty of air
circulation due to the fact that in converting to dc a great deal of
heat is produced and the more air ciculation the better. The stator
installed on our bikes is not capable of producting massive amounts of
ac regardless of the failure. If the voltage is dropping and cannot
keep the battery charged there is a 95% likelyhood that the stator is
failing not the voltage regulator. The design of our regulators
appears to be such that it either converts to dc or it fail
completely. When my stator failed it was still producing 12.4 volts
dc, which is not enough to keep the battery charged at speed.

My daughter said she would look at the report and interpret it for me
this weekend. Meanwhile my suggestion would be to move the regulator
and not to fuse the stator wires.

Will let you know if my daughter comes up with something else.

and also..

I spent yesterday on the phone (one of the bad things about being
retired is you have to much time on your hands) trying to find out as
much as I could about the stators on our bikes. Finally ended up
talking with an engineer at Kawasaki (who asked me not to use his name
since he was not "authorized" to speak for Kawa). It's his contention
that VN750 stator is statistically as reliable as the stators on any
of the Kawa products. You can assist the life of the stator by:
relocating the voltage regulator, frequent oil changes, not
overheating the bike, and not overloading the charging circuit by
adding extra electrical devices (particularly glove and vest warmers,
and extra driving lights). He stated the 99.999% of stator failures
manifest themselves by a sudden and stready decline in voltage output.
He says a good voltmeter is required to pick up this decline. The
stator can fail and not effect the voltage regulator and vice versa.
Even in catasrophic failure that stator is not capable of outputting
large amounts of current. He confirmed what the professor said,
fusing the stator wires does nothing more that add 3 more failure
points to the system, if the stator outputted enough voltage to cause
the fuses to fail, the stator has already destroyed itself, so you're
proctecting nothing.

2 things that they have looked at but not been able to determine
anything definitive is the use of a headlight modulator, and letting a
bike sit for long periods of time between uses. I have been in the
habit of turning my headlight modulator off when on the freeway don't
know if this has any positive effect or not, but the constant on-off
of the modulator can't be doing the charging system any good. My
voltmeter is not sensitive enough to reflect the voltage changes
caused by the modulator.

On the subject of the goats belly it's his contention that removing it
without putting an equalization pipe in it's palce will cause a
significant decrease in power, particularly at lower rpm's. When I
removed my goats belly I did put an equalization pipe in but still
noticed a reduction in power and gas mileage so went back to stock.

Yesterday I went down to the largest motorcycle dealer in centrol
Texas and talked with the service manager about stator failures. He
said that the greatest failure seems to be on certain models of the
HOnda, but they haven't seen a problem with the Kawa's. He said that
almost all of the stator failures that he's seen are caused by adding
electrical devices to the bike and bad electrical connections. The
VN750 does seem to have the smallest output of any bike over 700cc's.

Bottom line I guess is to not put electrical devices on the bike,
relocate the voltage regulator, change your oil often, don't overheat
the bike, and ride it alot! Think I'll go for a ride and clear my mind!

Wow Dianna! Thanks for compiling that and posting it. That settled quite a few questions in my mind as I'm sure it did for others as well. DMAG, we should add this to the Vulcan Verses. I appreciate you for chiming in Dianna. Your posts are always timely and effective! Thanks!:beerchug:

What is a headlight modulator and is this something we already have ? Or is the suggestion to "Add" one ?

A headlight modulator pulses your headlight on and off quickly, making you more visible to oncoming traffic. His point is that this modulation can't be doing the charging system any good. He doesn't make a point that it definitely does the charging system any damage either. So he's just mentioning that it is something they were looking at but haven't determined anything negative or positive about it.

By the way, it is an add-on. Doesn't come with the bike stock.

MAN! There were so many things wrong with that post, I don't know where to start. Let's start with this gem:

Even in catasrophic failure that stator is not capable of outputting
large amounts of current.

Well, if it can't produce large amounts of current, then why do you need 20 amp fuses?

The answer is: It's true, it can't produce large amounts of current. If you blow a 20 amp fuse, then you need to replace your regulator. If you don't, it will eventually eat up your stator.

Where did I get my info? From actual measurements obtained from a new bike. No amount of theory will ever beat an actual measurement. I can't remember the exact numbers, but our stator puts out something like 330 watts. So, lets figure this out. Watts = Volts x Current. If the output of the stator is 16V (your numbers), then the current must be 330/16 = 20.6 amps. And that's why you are using a 20 amp fuse. But, the stator doesn't put out 16V. The regulator may, but not the stator. The stator actually puts out close to 70 volts (thus the reason for the regulator), so the current is 330/70 = 4.7 amps. If you don't believe that it puts out this much voltage, grab a couple of those yellow wires (the uninsulated part), and have someone crank the rpms up. If it is only capable of producing 16 volts, then it won't shock you.

As to a regulator not causing stator failure, it shouldn't. BUT, if the regulator fails in such a way that instead of creating an "open" condition, it creates a "shorted" condition, then it WILL cause stator failure. This condition is the reason to put fuses inline between the stator and regulator. This is the same condition that killed my stator. As the regulator gets closer to a perfect short, the current increases, as seen in this equation: Current = Voltage / Resistance. As resistance gets smaller, the current increases. And as the current increases, the wattage of the stator must increase (not possible), or the voltage must decrease. So where does the voltage go? It is converted into heat. But if you place a fuse inbetween the two, then the current will exceed the fuse, and protect the stator from the shorted regulator.

As to putting more in the circuit, thus increasing failure points, that is definitely true. But I'd rather have a failure that I can fix than one I'd have to pull the engine for.

I now see where your daughter is confused. She is thinking that a stator is the same as an alternator, which it isn't. Two different critters, with the same outcome. An alternator is designed not to put out more than 16V. In most cases, an alternator comes with internal diodes, which are the same as a rectifier.

Fuses should be matched to the size wire.

OK. So then my motorcycle can go faster if I put in a speedometer that goes to 220? Makes as much sense. I guess if I replace my stator wires with 12 gauge, then it would be best to put in fuses like 30 to 50 amp.

I was really feeling confused about this, still am really. I remember going through the electical troubleshooting chart with my cop bike and reading like 40 volts ac from the stator at idle or something like that. More when I revved the motor. So, it makes sense to put 7.5 fuses in line there?

Hey Everybody,
Thanks for all the great advice. I checked my splines tonight and they were bone dry, front and back. I have a 2002 with just under 10k miles. Spline teeth still look ok thankfully. Was going to go on a long ride tomorrow all day, but this seemed more important. Still need to buy the grease and put it all back together, which should still leave time for a fairly long (and carefree) ride.
Mo

Well, Fergus, put 7.5's in there, and if you blow them, put 10's, and if you blow them, etc. If it really did put out that much current, we'd all be reversing our toy car motors and using them to power our house.

Ok, Let's keep this real simple..
Fusing the Stator wires to protect them from a bad R/R assumes that the current flow is a two way street. It isn't.
Yes the stator wires get warm, hot even, and I advise that if you are a neat freak that you do not bundle the wires together tightly, doesn't matter if they are fused or not, leave some air circulation between them. They can get hot enough when bundled tightly to melt the insulation and then cause a short in the stator wires, and a fire.
This is written from experience.
BTW, when this happened, the wires were fused. It didn't blow the fuses, it just melted them.

From yet another Electrical Engineer in the group, let me pass on this bit of information
"Even our small stator windings can produce a short, high current pulse far in excess of its rating when dead shorted.
The stator is a 12-pole three-phase AC generator rated at
~25A continuous. In a three phase system the current in any
individual leg will be the rated current / 1.732 or square root of
three. This equates to a standard fuse size of 15 amps for fusing at
slightly more that 100% capacity."

Ok, Let's keep this real simple..
Fusing the Stator wires to protect them from a bad R/R assumes that the current flow is a two way street. It isn't.
Yes the stator wires get warm, hot even, and I advise that if you are a neat freak that you do not bundle the wires together tightly, doesn't matter if they are fused or not, leave some air circulation between them. They can get hot enough when bundled tightly to melt the insulation and then cause a short in the stator wires, and a fire.
This is written from experience.
BTW, when this happened, the wires were fused. It didn't blow the fuses, it just melted them.

From yet another Electrical Engineer in the group, let me pass on this bit of information
"Even our small stator windings can produce a short, high current pulse far in excess of its rating when dead shorted.
The stator is a 12-pole three-phase AC generator rated at
~25A continuous. In a three phase system the current in any
individual leg will be the rated current / 1.732 or square root of
three. This equates to a standard fuse size of 15 amps for fusing at
slightly more that 100% capacity."

OK, I don't understand what you mean by "two way street."

In retrospect, it's not a fuse that we need, it's a fusable link. Something that can take the pulses of higher current, while staying intact, and blow when the steady current exceeds a certain threshold.

I guess the only real way to find out exactly what it is doing at any given rpm is to check it with an oscilliscope that either has a printout or memory function.

Hizzo - you got such a device within reach?

I'm going to post this in the electrical section, seeing how we have gotten far off the track of this thread...

High current electrical pulses. How do we handle this??... Capacitors. I have recently purchased high quality 16V 3300 uF capacitors rated at 105 degrees Celsius. NOT the cheap ones from Radio Shack that can't hold up to high temperatures. I came across a write up regarding these and plan on soldering them into the battery feeds and ground coming out of the regulator.

I purchased a Quantity 100. I only need 2 for my bike and 4 more for 2 other bikes. So, that means I have 47 sets to provide to interested parties. There is a nice writeup with photos available on the Yahoo Group site regarding installing these. The guy who did the writeup though only used cheaper 16V 1500 uF capacitors but informs that you can use 1000 to 10000 uF. The larger you go, just like in amplifiers, more the "Bang" you can absorb.

Contact me if intersted in purchasing a set for your bike. I'm sold on this "theory" of dampening my electrical system against voltage spikes. My 300ZX had voltage issues with the aftermarket stereo and HIGH DRAW requirements just to run the engine. 2 single 1 Farad capacitors... no more pulsing lights, engine runs better at low RPM's, and stereo sounds like a million dollars now.

I'm also thinking of designing a mounting system for the regulator that LOOKS good on the 750 Vulcan and perhaps provide the whole setup as a kit: Qty 2 16V 3300 uF capacitors rated at 105 C, mounting bracket, and Qty 3 capped fuse holders for wiring into the stator. I've seen enough pictures of "FRIED" stators caused by shorted regulators.

My background: Mechanical engineer with access to ProEngineer 3D modeling software and a vendor that deals in cutting aluminum with a waterjet cutter including full fab shop. Could make a nice aluminum heatsink mount with fins to mount on the frame instead of looking at just an ugly regulator.

I don't know if this is the place to bring up all this, but interested parties may want to let me know if this would be of interest. itlnstln13@hotmail.com

High current electrical pulses. How do we handle this??... Capacitors.


Nice Idea... have seen these on a few "Good" stereo installs but never really thought about them for our bikes!!


I just have one question.... I thought this thread was for checking your splines?? :confused:

I just have one question.... I thought this thread was for checking your splines?? :confused:

Must be that free-spiritedness that's instilled into bikers... to never go in a straight line for too long of a time. Ya gotta wonder off course and take the side roads once-in-awhile to get the entire perspective of how everything looks from all the angles.

This is just one of those side roads. http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/autobike/biker.gif

I wish we had some long term test data that showed the the capacitors made a difference. Sounds like a good idea to me, but I don't even understand capacitors, except that they look bulged when blown. I can recognize a blown motherboard on a computer by finding the bulged capacitors. Anyway, check your splines. (for the sake of the thread):beerchug:

Just checked my splines yesterday and lubed. They were fine. They did have grease on them, but not as much as they do now. Mine is a 2000 with 19300 miles. I purchased the bike in 2004 with 7600 miles and the original tires. I do not know if the original owner lubed the splines.

The write ups here made this a relatively easy maintenance item. Thanks guys! Thanks fergy for the great write up with pictures.

The hardest part from me was getting the saddlebags back on, but that is another subject.

The other two notable difficulties was in breaking lose the axel nut, I simply put a wrench on the right side and let it lock up against the lower shock stud (not the threaded side), and getting the wheel installed and meshed with the final drive.

Oh, and I could not see the teeth on the front spline. It was getting dark, so I will have to check this again. Are the teeth towards the front of the universal joint or to towards the rear? Everything looked nice and clean in there.

Thanks!

I don't recall where the teeth are on the front. I know you push or pull the drive shaft until you see them, then lube 'em up. If it looked clean, then you might want to make it look muddy (with lube, that is).

As to putting the axle nut back on, what I found is best is to get the nut started, then put a wrench on there and secure the wrench to the back of the shock. Next, start the bike up, pull in the clutch lever, put it in 2nd gear, and rev it to about 5K. Then pop the clutch, and the wheel will do all the work. When the nut is tight enough, it will lock the tire up and stall the bike. That's how you know you're done.
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Not really. Don't try this at home, folks!

The U-joint is mounted to the front of the drive shaft. The U-joint slides onto the spline of the bevel gear which is toward the front of the bike. When it's on the spline, it slips far enough forward that you can see teeth on both sides of the front part of the u-joint. Very little movement forward and back happens here so it doesn't need the moly like the rear joint and splines do. Most of us use spray white lithium grease, which is easy to apply while holding back the rubber boot. You can turn the drive shaft from the rear to cover all areas inside the boot, or if the final drive is already installed, turn the rear wheel to turn the drive shaft while in neutral.

Hey Vaccam and everyone, when one of our posts helps you out, click on the grey-white flowery thing in the upper right corner of the post and give some reputation points. (It's a scale, not a flower - kinda hard to tell). It really helps us helper guys out, 'cause we get a free Dodge Magnum when we have 1,000 points. Right DMAG? Ok, maybe not, but it does help our self esteem.

looked through the electrical forum and didn't find no thread about capacitors like ITLNSTLN13 wanted to open. the idea of capacitors sounds interesting, i can see some benefits and some pitfalls. ITLNSTLN13, it would be nice to discuss that in separate thread, since you the one mentioned it please open up a thread. also put some more details on capasitor offer. thanks

oh and so i'm not acused of highjacking a thread:

Everybody, check your splines!:rockon:

Tankist,

The capacitor mod is mentioned on Beavis' website along with exhaust, a balancer gone wild, and a seat rebuild to name a few.
Here is the link.
http://www.fortunecity.com/bennyhills/radner/499/

And remember to check the splines!!! Beware the splines!!! Doom awaits those who do not check the splines!!! My splines are lubed, how about yours???

Please do not use anti seize the copper or the aluminum it is not designed to be a lubricant even though it has oils in it it could actually wear the splines on the shaft. I use GN paste its 100% moly mixed with outboard marine grease because it is very tacky(sticky) it works great.

I just did an '06' with 6500 miles. Rear had some lube but front was
dry. My rear wheel wouldn't drop far enough to pull the axle out.
I had to remove the rear portion of the right exhaust pipe. It slid
right off after loosening the clamp. I hope it always comes off that
easy. Anyone else have this trouble or are '06's unique?

All Vulcans are the same.
Some folks remove the shocks to lower the swingarm enough to remove the wheel insteard of the exhaust.
Get used to doing one or the other, you're not alone.

All Vulcans are the same.
Some folks remove the shocks to lower the swingarm enough to remove the wheel insteard of the exhaust.
Get used to doing one or the other, you're not alone.


That's what I don't understand. I removed both shocks. Th swingarm
wouldn't lower enough to clear the pipe. Is my center stand shorter
than most or something?

That's what I don't understand. I removed both shocks. Th swingarm
wouldn't lower enough to clear the pipe. Is my center stand shorter
than most or something?

Some people forget that the goats belly has to move a tad, so you have to disconnect the two bolts that hold it to the rear footpegs. It's usually easier to say, did you remove the rear foot pegs? That will stop the swingarm from moving the rest of the way.

That's what I don't understand. I removed both shocks. Th swingarm
wouldn't lower enough to clear the pipe. Is my center stand shorter
than most or something?

Did you remove the shocks from the bottom mounts? Was it the bottom shock mount post that was stopping the rear wheel from dropping enough to remove the axel? I don't understand what else could have prevented it from dropping down.

My rear wheel wouldn't drop far enough to pull the axle out.
I had to remove the rear portion of the right exhaust pipe. It slid
right off after loosening the clamp. I hope it always comes off that
easy. Anyone else have this trouble or are '06's unique?

Did you put the center stand on a 2X6 to get it up higher and remove the licens plate? That's what I did and no problem.

Did you put the center stand on a 2X6 to get it up higher and remove the licens plate? That's what I did and no problem.


That's the ticket. Thanks. This will make it easy. What I don't understand is why
do the dealerships want to charge 2 hours labor for this. It can be done in less than
1 hour.

I think they pretty much go by the book on those jobs. Book says 2 hours, we charge 2 hours, unless it takes us 3, then we charge 3!

The boneheads that replaced my tires when I first bought the bike took the exhaust off the bike to remove the axel bolt and axel. This was a large KAW shop in Conroe. Nice folks, and I didn't know any better then. I sent them my spline lube procedure:) They actually emailed me back and thanked me for it!

Some people forget that the goats belly has to move a tad, so you have to disconnect the two bolts that hold it to the rear footpegs. It's usually easier to say, did you remove the rear foot pegs? That will stop the swingarm from moving the rest of the way.

Ah, previous owner degoated, so I've never had to do that.

Thanks to everyone on the Forum for their helpful hints (and link to very useful photos) on lubing the final drive splines. It only took me about 3 hours last night to disassemble, lube, and reassemble everything. To my surprise, there was a trace of Moly on the final drive, so I felt okay about the condition of the splines (plus, they still looked like they have some good edges); there was *nothing* on the splines or u-joint up front, however. Lubed it all well with Moly 60 and lithium grease, put it all back together, took it out tonight when it stopped raining (and I figured out what to do with my cotter clip thing), and - voila!- bike runs like a charm! :smiley_th

True to my signature, I managed to get Moly 60 all over the place...that was probably about 30 minutes of total time, just cleaning up after myself. But aside from that, it was as close to a cakewalk as mechanical work could possibly be.

THANKS!!!

Gotta love it when a plan comes together!!

Great to hear!!

:motorcycl

Way to go Cindy! I chickened out and had the shop do it, while they were doing some other maint. Mine weren't completely dry, but man, they certainly didn't have enough for the guys at the shop... they did it right! As for the front set, I did that by pulling the boot back and just spraying the lithium grease as far as it would go. Maybe when I have to have the back tire changed I will have them do that part right.

But again, Wahoo and way to go girlfriend. :pepper: :rockon: :smiley_th

Good job. See, anyone can do it! Speaking of, where all did you say you got that lube? Ooooh, I just got goose bumps...

Ernie! GO TAKE A COLD SHOWER! yes, I am yelling at you...

someone has to, It appears Dianna is not available.

kait

Good work Cindy! The lithium grease should be fine on the front splines. They get almost no wear and tear so that should do. I'm proud of you gals with wrenches! Awesome:smiley_th

After $100 worth of new tools, I was sure hoping I could take care of it! But thanks for your pics - they were *perfect*. I printed 'em out at work, followed each step along the way, and it was almost easy. Thanks!

Hey, make sure you send Fergy some rep points!

I just now figured out what rep points are. No need for that! I was only giving back. I probably wouldn't have found the 750 and bought it had it not been for this forum. I owe a lot!

Thanks for the reminder - I had only just read about rep points, so, Fergy, your rep just went up! :D I'm hoping that one of these days, I get the opportunity to give back as well. I'm new to the technical aspects of the bike, but it's pretty easy with the Forum support... I'm almost ready to run out and buy a non-running machine, just to see if I can get 'er going again!!

Ha! I was thinking exactly the same thing... I even went to a motorcycle graveyard (:( place) to look for an engine, so I could learn all the ins and outs before mine goes bad...

My friend quoted a german saying "or you could just nail toast to your knee." Something about a pointless exercise... LOL

I am still looking... I even thought of buying the one on ebay for a couple of hundred bucks, but I couldn't swing the shipping. I think I have the wrench itch...:smiley_th

I have to say it is empowering to do your own work (you guys out there don't run into the same gender bias we ladies get every time we go into a shop for service) I've had so many bad experiences (read: didn't fix the problem or even made it worse) with auto mechanics and now bike mechanics, that I've decided we gals just need to take care of it ourselves. And if I break something, at least I've broken it for less than I would've paid some 22 year old "mechanic" who can't seem to fix things, either. :hitanykey

Any idea how many women there are on this forum?

I really like working on anything mechanical. And you're right about the empowerment part. I spent YEARS looking for a decent car mechanic and when I found one... I hung on tight. I moved a few years ago, but still take the big stuff back to him...

And now, I have found a good motorcycle shop. They are just guys who love bikes, the owner has been servicing and selling Italian MC for 20 plus years. And they are totally willing to let me watch what they do, so I can learn and understand the process. This is priceless to me... When my speedo cable broke yesterday, I called this guy and asked him how hard it would be for me to replace it. He said it was easy and told me how, right over the phone! No worrying about the lost money on his part if I was able to fix it, just willing to help me out!

I have no idea, as far as I've seen there are only about 4 or 5 of us. But Dianne and I and now you are the only regulars I've noticed.:smiley_th

Yeap. Include me in the Wrench Wench count *S*
Grayfox and kawgirl are two others that I know of.

Wrench Wench! I love it!

Kait, sounds like it might be time for you to put out a new poll. And there are only two variables. :D

just my 2 cents but from what I have read here I would let Dianna wrench on my bike anytime....really seams like 1 smart woman when it comes to these bikes

Wrench Wench! I love it!

Kait, sounds like it might be time for you to put out a new poll. And there are only two variables. :D


poll is up! and it will show who is who, so no one can pad the results...:doh:

Ok, so I can lube my splines, but I can't find your poll...??

You can find the poll on the portal page, right side.

I too was looking at getting that dang ol' busted engine off of ebay, just for the same reasons.

Dianna....do you know if anyone has come up with a homemade bracket for relocation of the regulator and if so is there a diagram or pic?

Dianna....do you know if anyone has come up with a homemade bracket for relocation of the regulator and if so is there a diagram or pic?

there are several variations....
1) The zip tie to the frame member as i did for now, put something on the back fo the R/R to prevent scuffing
2) a solid piece of metal with holes drilled in it, one for the R/R to attach to, the other for a 'U' bolt to go around the frame member
3) A solid piece of metal wil holds drilled to fit the R/R and the other to fit into the bracket that holds the exhaust and passanger footpegs


These are the most common, but there are many more ways to do it... just be creative!

Check the technical pics here
http://www.vn750.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=503
There are a couple of pictures an diagram for the bracket there

Checked my splines on the final drive at 2500 miles on my 2004 VN750, and.......they had been well lubed with moly or what looked like moly...cleaned them up and re lubed with Honda moly 60.

Also, I used a motorcyle jack on wheels to do this and I nearly went nuts trying to get the doggone tire to go back on. I discovered ....finally, that you can insert the axle without the spacer....then, after getting everything as close as possible spline-wise.. while temporarily riding on the axle, just tap on the final drive with a rubber mallet and it will go together easily.

I would hate to see a fellow rider using a jack for this job wear themselves as I did.

My jack also has wheels, so I can fully envision what you might've gone through. The centerstand on the 750s works great as a jack for spline-lubing and assorted other tasks. Brings the rear wheel nicely off the ground. The one hazard is that too much pressure forward (e.g., trying to loosen a stubborn axle nut) can potential ride the bike off the stand. Fergy has suggested using ties downs between the frame and front wheel so that the bike has nowhere (forward) to go under pressure.

Kudos for hitting a moving target!! And glad to hear your splines were ok.

I found this article on spline lube interesting

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Shaft.html

I'm a newbie ,I've been reading the posts but I may have missed this so this may already be posted somewhere

"An alternative to moly is the new poly-flourinated lubricants made by DuPont called Krytox Teflon Bearing Grease. These chemicals are simply magic. They have almost no known solvents, are chemically inert, and don't burn at any temperature, even in a pure oxygen atmosphere. This is pretty clearly the only grease to use. See this article. Nascar mechanics have found that Krytox grease can reduce the temperature of spline joints on drive shafts by 150°. Also, this stuff lasts forever. It is, unfortunately, quite expensive."

I " believe " that Diane uses that Krytox... But she also has a side car on her ride... and yes it is very expensive! although very good stuff!!! But since most of us are not going 150 down the straights or pounding hard down the 1/4 mile.... Moly lube works just fine! ;)

The weather is supposed to turn from the 70's to the 40's with some rain . I'll probably hang out in the garage attempting to lube the splines . I bought the bike (2005 VN750) a couple of weeks ago with 1355 miles on it and I've put just over 500 miles on it. I'm hoping everything looks good in there.

I'm going to use the recommended Honda Moly60 and spray the u joint with lithium. I've read all the posts for doing this job and it certainly is nice to have that kind of info ahead of time.

Now if I can only follow directions,that's always been tough for me

Where are you located? That sounds like Ohio weather. Had some great weather the past couple of days, but gotta wait a few more now.

I'm in southern Kentucky. We've had great weather for the last two weeks.

If you can print the procedure and keep it close to you, you'll be fine!

I've got it printed out and have read it a couple of times. Great instructions, thanks

Checked the splines today. The rear had grease the front looked dry.

I greased with the moly60 and sprayed lithium grease on the U-joint.

The only thing I would add is when reinstalling the torque link arm to the rear brake panel make sure the bolt head is in the recess in the rear of the panel before you tighten it down.


Peace of mind

Thanks for all the info

Thanks for the insight AGS. I hadn't taken my brake off the drum until this time and didn't even know there was a recess for that bolt head. I'll add that to the procedure.

I just finished the spline lube on my '04 VN750 with 6,000 mi. Used Honda Moly60 on the splines and white lithium spray grease on the front U-joint.

Both front and rear splines had some lube from the factory, but not a lot. It looked as if it was ready to be re-lubed (just like the maintenance shedule says). I took pictures, but they are pretty much the same as others on this site.

Thanks to all the help from the collective experience on this site I felt comfortable doing this myself. I pretty much followed Fergy's procedure.

Some notes & comments from my experience:

The little "tips" from VN750 members such as Use 2X6 plank under centerstand, Strap centerstand to front wheel, Remove license plate, Count number of turns when removing brake adjusting nut, Use plastic teaspoon and a toothbrush to apply the Moly lube ... all helped make the job easier. This stuff isn't usually in the manuals.

Initially I loosened the right muffler mounting bolts. After trying to "spring" the muffler to clear the right shock mount stud, I was afraid I would damage something so I went ahead and removed the muffler. This gave more room for jockying the wheel / axle / spacer during reinstallation. I would definitely remove the muffler next time - although it may not be necessary I thought it made the job easier.

I also greased the "brake cam" since it was easy to do at this time. The service manual says to do this every 2 years. I also measured the brake shoe thickness for peace of mind.

In reinstalling the final drive, the Clymers manual says to only "finger tighten" the 4 nuts that hold the final drive to the drive shaft housing, then install and torque the axle, then go back and torque the mounting nuts. I originally didn't do that sequence so after I was done I went back and loosened the 4 mounting nuts and retorqued them. Don't know why it makes a difference, but I feel better anyway.

The service manual says to use 17ml of grease in the spline coupling. This is about 3 teaspoonful. It was though for me to measure with any accuracy, but after I poked about 2 of the plastic teaspoonfuls into the coupling, it was about full. Is too much grease in the coupling harmful?

Thanks to all who contributed - there is a ton of valuable experience in this group.

Interesting thread here. I was searching for the name of one of our old timers and came across this. Some of us "longer in the tooth" members might get a kick out of it. It spans a few years, and shows the evolution of some thoughts and ideas, along with the dawning of the CRobbins wrenching era. It's kind of cool looking back... Way to go Cindy! You've come a long way in a short time.

[

The only thing I would add is when reinstalling the torque link arm to the rear brake panel make sure the bolt head is in the recess in the rear of the panel before you tighten it down.


I totally agree...i heard mine "snap in" when i was assembling ...got lucky.

Im curious about overlubing also. I packed that bad boy till it couldnt take anymore. What damage could it do?