So driving up to a light I use the engine to brake. I down shift from 4th to 3rd and so on into neutral....Going between 3rd into 2nd definitly hit a dead spot and it coasted like in neutral...

Thought I was in neutral but no green light....

What is this about, clutch? trainny?

It is not a huge problem, the bike shifts up and down through all the gears and it happens seldomly, now that I noticed it atleast.

i hit neutral shifting up to second sometimes like im not shifting up hard enough (or i need bigger feet) i had your issue with a dirt bike a long time ago, it ended up being the shifting tabs that hold it in gear were worn. did you ever try to simulate this problem with the bike parked? some of the vets may kick in and be able to help you more

I will try to get it to happen while its not running. But the main thing is that I only notice it when down shifting from 3rd to 2nd....I dont know enough about the clutch/trainny system to diagnose what to do...

I have a question for you? Why are you using the engine as a braking system in the first place? Bikes have a GREAT braking system, better than cars, its called the front brakes. Cars yes I can understand the need to down shift to assist in slowing down but not on bikes. When one uses the engine to slow down it puts unnecessary stress on the bands and bearings, so do yourself a huge favor and STOP DOING THAT and your problems are forever solved. OK one might argue that brakes aren't cheap but my argument is over time a rebuild is??? I would much rather replace the brakes every 5k miles than a rebuild at 20. Think about it my friend. Oh and one other thing Hawks 24 Skins 10 on Nov. 23rd...LOL.

Peace :beerchug:

Oh and one other thing Hawks 24 Skins 10 on Nov. 23rd...LOL.
Peace :beerchug:

I see you are a glass half full type from your projected score, huh, although you seem very negative about engine braking, that it is sooooo terrible for your engine....Yes I agree that doing it all the time to stop is stressing the engine bearings, seals, and such, BUT come on telll me that any time you want to slow down you use ONLY your brakes.....

Any way I am not asking for suggestions on how to ride...I am asking why this would happen???

Oh yea Nov. 23rd---> Skins 21 Hawks 3 the actual score!!! lol

Just giving you advise from someone thats been riding for over 22 years, take it or leave it, its your choice.

On a better note:
I do like the Skins and your acquisition of JZ was a brilliant move (he's my boy and always will be) BUT your score prediction is way outta-line, That wont happen at Quest Field (Nope, No Way, Never) 24-10 Hawks win....winks ;)

Peace :beerchug:

I have a question for you? Why are you using the engine as a braking system in the first place? Bikes have a GREAT braking system, better than cars, its called the front brakes. Cars yes I can understand the need to down shift to assist in slowing down but not on bikes. When one uses the engine to slow down it puts unnecessary stress on the bands and bearings, so do yourself a huge favor and STOP DOING THAT and your problems are forever solved.

First off NOT DOING THAT does not solve the problem of a false neutal between 3rd and 2nd. But likely was just a weak tap on the shifter.

Second , the rest of your statement is perhaps ths silliest thing I have read here in a long time. Downshifting improperly can put "unnecessary"? stress on the engine...but by your logic twisting the thottle hard is bad for the bike too.

As for downshifting ...How do you slow the bike down to a stop? Pull in the clutch and use the brakes...then down shift to 1st after you come to a stop?

Motorcycles are designed to use "engine braking"... but you should use the bikes brakes in conjuction with downshifting...And on the Vulcan you should be carefull as the big pistons on a V twin so not slow down quickly and you could skid the rear tire downshifting too soon.

But you should ALWAYS downshift while you brake, so you will be in a usable gear if the need comes for you to suddenly accellerate instead.

And it does not hurt the bike if you use engine braking properly (even without using the bikes brakes) anymore than accellerating hard does.

I am sure you can make the arguement that baby-ing your ride like it is made of glass might make it last longer...but where's the fun it that?


KM

KM I guess that I need to clarify my statement for you. Using the engine as a braking system isn't advisable I never said down shifting shouldn't be done. I was talking about those that think our bikes are like Semi's and use compression braking as a preferred form than using the actual brakes. You're correct in proper down shifting is necessary in conjunction with braking but theres those out there that don't touch the brake levers until they are in 3rd or lower gear. As for that babying comment on acceleration "Get real dude".

Sheesh :doh:

i usually downshift from 5th to 4th to start to slow the bike down a bit, sometimes i will drop the gears down lower with a combination of breaking depending on the lenght of the stop and other factors. the act of letting off the throttle has a breaking effect on it own. i dont really think about it much, i just do what feels right at the time.

KM ... I was talking about those that think our bikes are like Semi's and use compression braking as a preferred form than using the actual brakes. ....................... but theres those out there that don't touch the brake levers until they are in 3rd or lower gear..



Gotcha, sorry I got confused by your statement. It was this line that threw me off :
Cars yes I can understand the need to down shift to assist in slowing down but not on bikes

You said "assist", but not on bikes dude.

Anyway...

I was unaware that there are "those that think our bikes are like Semi's and use compression braking as a preferred form than using the actual brakes..."


Sounds like they missed that day in MSF class.


But I am sure that Redskiinner was in the bounds of safety slowing his bike, and does understand the usefullness of the bikes regular brakes.
Sometimes I do downshift so hard the bike screams...


KM

Bad wording on my part I suppose, as for my true meaning I was going with Skins comment of:

So driving up to a light I use the engine to brake.

No where did he mention that he used his brakes. I didnt mean to tell him how to ride his bike just given him another point of view and what can happen. Its all good.

Peace :beerchug:

Sorry but I was shorting the story to get to the real point of the post...Next time I will include what I was doing before, after, and during....jk Thanks for the input KM and if there are any other ideas what would cause a false neutral I would be very interested in hearing them.

I see you are a glass half full type from your projected score, huh, although you seem very negative about engine braking, that it is sooooo terrible for your engine....Yes I agree that doing it all the time to stop is stressing the engine bearings, seals, and such, BUT come on telll me that any time you want to slow down you use ONLY your brakes.....

Any way I am not asking for suggestions on how to ride...I am asking why this would happen???

Oh yea Nov. 23rd---> Skins 21 Hawks 3 the actual score!!! lol

In the MS Course they taught us to brake...don't engine brake unless in an emergency, because trying to brake, clutch roll off throttle, and shift all at the same time gets to confusing...you engine break when changing speedzones, but that is it.

but to get back on topic...does it do it all the time or just once in a while...I notice mine skipping 2nd when downshifting when i use a little too much force and the tranny is synced just right.

Another thought on this is back in my dirt bike days the shifter would hang up halfway between gears giving you nuetral...I haven't ever tried this technique on the cruiser yet...but that could be another cause for your problem.

Well I noticed it when shifting from 3rd to 2nd and it happens seldomly. I have to tinker with it and try to see if I can recreate the issue and see if it is due by force, ie too much or too little. What is baffling to me, maybe because I am not a clutch/trainy specialist is why this might happen?

Is it maybe an old clutch/springs or something worn in the trainny making a dead spot? I just dont know enough about the power transmission system to accurately diagnose it. I will come back with more info after I play around with the bike...

I have rode this bike for thousands of miles and never did a clutch job on her yet. The reason is that I never had any issue until recent. If you think of something that may solve this issue let me know or if you guys think it could be one of those damn gremlins, Ive heard about, messing with me--- lol

As for how this happens, it is likely just what is called in the racers lingo, "blowing a shift" and happens because for some reason the next gear was not selected properly. The shift mechinism moves gears in and out of engagement, and sometimes , even when you feel you used enough pressure to accomplish the shift, the "dogs" do not engage fully and the gear does not "connect" to the drive shaft.

A good overview on transmissions and how they work can be seen here:
http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm

And link talking about "false neutal" specificly (They are discussing the Valkerie but the ideas the same)...can be found here:

http://www.f6rider.com/Valk/motorcycle_transmissions.htm

KM

(there will be a test in the morning)

And link talking about "false neutal" specificly (They are discussing the Valkerie but the ideas the same)...can be found here:

http://www.f6rider.com/Valk/motorcycle_transmissions.htm

KM

(there will be a test in the morning)
That is what I was talking about KM...good work on the link

I'll tap the shifter twice to get into 3rd, while I'm braking, and when I let out the clutch I get a nice bit of braking action, then I tap it twice again to put it into the first, but I don't usually let the clutch out again because I'm pretty well stopped by that time.

Thanks for the input...I will look into it

As for how this happens, it is likely just what is called in the racers lingo, "blowing a shift" and happens because for some reason the next gear was not selected properly. The shift mechinism moves gears in and out of engagement, and sometimes , even when you feel you used enough pressure to accomplish the shift, the "dogs" do not engage fully and the gear does not "connect" to the drive shaft.

A good overview on transmissions and how they work can be seen here:
http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm

And link talking about "false neutal" specificly (They are discussing the Valkerie but the ideas the same)...can be found here:

http://www.f6rider.com/Valk/motorcycle_transmissions.htm

KM

(there will be a test in the morning)

Good article about the shifting...Found that it most likely is a force issue...as the article states that a weak throw will cause this false neutral to appear among other things. Never noticed that I was throwing lightly but it explained that a good shift to be "a quick stab" and to help with grinding, preloading the shifter then clutch pull would help too.

Gonna keep an eye on her for a while and will see if the problem is eliminated by preloading the shifter before the shift.

Thanks again!!!!

BTW, KM did I pass?