Buying Gear [Archive] - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums

: Buying Gear


Knifemaker
10-14-2007, 10:24 PM
As many know, I have allways been one of those riders that believed that leather was THE best material for motorcycle gear, and only recently, got into the textile world of jackets, pants and gloves. Many of the newer fabrics can give leather a run for the money, and provide some distinct advantages over leather. Those primarily being - water resistance-lighter weight-and cooler in hot weather. Leather can be made somewhat water repellent, but needs special care and attention after it gets wet. It also looses a bit of it's strength when wet, and as far as I have seen, there are no leather jackets/pants that are sold as being 100% waterproof, which is something the textile gear can accomplish.

Many also point out that decent leather costs more than textile gear, but the main selling point is availability in bright colors , water-resistance or water proofness, cooler to wear-because of either "mesh" design or adjustable venting, and , the advantage of CE armor and padding, not always found in "standard" leather biker jackets.

I own several leather jackets and two pair of leather pants. Neither of these have any venting. They are all black, heavy , and just too hot to wear in any temp above 72 degees. I have seen some really nice vented or perforated leather jackets, but most of them are in the $270-$400 range. (Granted I have not looked at every jacket on the market)

But, I have found some nicely made mesh jackets and pants, all in the $100 range, that are not only cool to wear, but also have the advantage of being more water resistant and feature armor and padding. Along with well designed adjustable cuffs, arm cinches, abundant and usefull pockets, as well in bright attention getting colors.

These jackets and pants do provide much better protection that ordinary jeans and T shirts. And I had thought, from what the some of the makers claimed, that these new modern textiles were "almost" as good as leather , (if I were unfortunate enough to eat some pavement) and , were better as they had more useable features.

Well, after doing some research recently on the materials these "new generation" textile jackets/pants are made from, I am not going to denouce them all as frauds, nor am I going to burn all my textile gear, but I am going to point out to anyone buying this type of clothing , that what you are getting may not be all you think it is.

The problem it seems is the names diffrent makers use for the material these items are built from. You will see either "Nylon Mesh" , "Polymesh", "Carbolex", "Codura", or something sounding simular. That last one, "Cordura" is the one you want to look for, as all the others are "knock-offs" of this fabric. Dupont Codura is a very tough fabric with a high abrasion resistance. It , along with the others, is usualy given a "Denier" number. Like "500 denier Codura".. this is simply a weird metric value that shows how heavy the fibers used are. (This value is actualy the number of grams a 9000 meter length of the thread weighs...so a 9000 meter long piece of Cordura fiber that weighs 1000 grams would be called 1000 denier Cordura, thus 500 denier Codura is lighter and only half as strong)

What you have to watch out for here is makers will say their jacket is made out of "heavy duty 500 denier fabric" but unless you know what that fabric is, the number is meaningless. If the fabric is made from polyester, 500 denier polyester is about as strong as 200 denier nylon, but almost 3 times weaker than 500 denier Cordura. For a jacket to be about as strong as leather, it should be 600 denier Cordura or higher, and have 1000 denier Codura in key impact points or some material like Kevlar , or armor instead.
See chart here:
http://tinyurl.com/2twkva

Here is some info on some of the fabrics above, along with a few that are better:
"Carbolex is a polyester made to look like DuPont Cordura. This is not as abrasion resistant, nor does it have as high a friction melting point as DuPont Cordura. Cordura is much more expensive and, while it was at one time available in jackets in the $200 range, it no longer is (with one exception). Carbolex has become the common material used in low-end jackets. Cordura is now used only in mid-priced jackets, the most affordable of these being the Olympia AST (All-Season Touring) which uses 500-denier Cordura with 2000-denier in the impact areas. 2000-denier is suitcase-grade Cordura. This jacket has an MSRP of $289.

Above that are materials such as Dynatec, made by Schoeller in Switzerland and used primarily by BMW in some of its gear. This has a friction melting point much higher than Cordura, breathes very well, and has excellent fade resistance. Above Dynatek is Armacor, which is essentially 1000-denier Cordura interwoven with DuPont Kevlar. High abrasion resistance with the incredible shear strength of Kevlar. Armacor is used almost exclusively by BMW in their Streetguard line and by Harley-Davidson in one of their top-of-the-line textile jackets."


Right of the bat, looks like those BMW guys know what they are doing...

Part of the problem here, is we poor suckers in America do not have a rating system like they do in Europe. All motorcycle gear that is to be sold as "protective gear" must pass a series of tests, and is given a specific rating number for what type of protection it offers. I suggest those intrested in this , check out all the pages at this site:
http://www.rideforever.co.nz/gear_up/index.html

Now, I am not saying that any of the textile gear on the market does not have any value, or is not good to buy. What one does need to know that alot of this stuff simply is not as tough as one might think, and if you are intrested in how well your gear works, or how much actual protection you can expect from it, the information above is usefull.

I have seen photos of mesh jackets, made with polyester , that were "melted" from road slides, and heard of EMT's talking about how this melted stuff can stick to wounds. But again, think how much bigger that wound would have been without any protection. These are things each person should weigh , and make their own choice in what type of gear they wish to use, and when.

I am happy that fall has returned, as the cooler temps allow me to break out my leather, but there will still be days I will grab my textile jacket... it may not provide the road rash protection of leather, but it's bright colors and waterproof liner may be of greater value that day.

Knifemaker

theauhawk
10-14-2007, 11:11 PM
Well, apparently you've certainly done your homework here.....

I think I speak for everyone else here when I say thanks much for the cool primer on what matters--protective gear that works!!....:rockon:

kanuck69
10-14-2007, 11:23 PM
Thanks! Alot of good reading there. I'll be spending some time in there. Though probably not as much as you have researching this great write up!

Dianna
10-15-2007, 10:01 AM
I'll echo what I posted on the vn750 board back on Sept 30th along with the link to the article
Chaps have been around a lot longer than the Village People. Call me
nostalgic if anything. I've just seen too many melted mesh
jackets/pants being peeled off of road rash to get overly
enthusiastic about them.
If I go mesh it's going to have a Kevlar blend.
The textiles aren't as bad, but I'd never go below a 600 Cordura
denier. The durability numbers increase significantly from there. The
1000 denier jacket probably saved Starr from a bunch of road rash.

http://tinyurl.com/76ymt

And my follow-up..
In short, Starr's Jacket was/is 1000 Denier Dupont Cordura, made by Guide Gear. with 3m waterproofing they are two of the most waterproof jackets we have.
Vented, also comes with an insulated liner we have had wired for additional heating. I paid $49 each through Sportsman's Guide.
It survived a 60 mph slide across I-40 and made sure he did too. It doesn't have the armor insert options because it is an outdoorsman's jacket, but that is the only feature it is missing. Adjustable waist and cuffs, vents, liner, reflective piping, high snap collar and a little bit longer length so you don't have a cool breeze blowing up your back.

Sometimes it pays to look to other resources then the standard motorcycle gear places.
Ok, that's it, I've had my say *G*

EasyRector
10-15-2007, 07:15 PM
This is really helpful information, Knifemaker.

After a lot of thought and browsing, I recently bought a vented bomber jacket from Fox Creek Leather. It was more money than I wanted to spend, but I was sold on its overall quality, the 1.4-1.6 mm leather (Motorcycle Cruiser magazine suggested a 1 mm minimum), and the thinsulate liner. There are pockets for armor at the elbows, shoulders, and back (not sure I will do that yet). It should last me a long, long time ~ unless I end up skidding along I-75 someday...

Dianna, they sell chaps too, but I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet!

I still like my armored Phoenix 4.0 poly/mesh jacket (bright yellow, with the extra strength back pad) for hot, hot riding. Better than a t-shirt, at least.

Sky Rider
10-15-2007, 07:34 PM
Hey, DMAG, any way we can get this added to the verses? This is really great info and I'd hate to see it lost to the ravages of time.

Knifemaker
10-15-2007, 07:41 PM
This is really helpful information, Knifemaker.

....There are pockets for armor at the elbows, shoulders, and back (not sure I will do that yet). It should last me a long, long time ~ unless I end up skidding along I-75 someday...



If it has the pockets for armor , I'd use them. As for lasting, Leather can survive much better then textile..I went down while wearing my leather pants..there is a scar on the ass from a tiny pebble that got trapped between my bottom and the road as I slide down it....went through both layers of leather, (no mark on me) But the pants are still wearable and you'd have to know where to look to notice the "scar". You can spend all night looking at my jacket and never be able to tell I was wearing it too....

KM

DougFunnie13
12-27-2007, 01:35 PM
I was curious what you thought about this jacket. I had never heard of the brand but they claim it is made from 100% cordura but doesn't give me a number for the amount of denier. Think this is a good jacket?

http://www.leatherup.com/p/Mens-Motorcycle-Jackets/Mens-Armored-Motorcycle-Black--Blue-Cordura-With-Leather-Trim-Jackets/49459.html

Dianna
12-27-2007, 02:00 PM
I don't recall ever seeing a Cordura at anything less than 500 denier
500 Denier Cordura
620 Denier Cordura
1000 Denier Cordura

Cordura is a trademark..
http://www.cordura.com/FAQ.html

And a bit about the brand.. X-Element
http://xelementgear.com/about/