How do we ever get thru to these kids !!!!!!


Speeding motorcyclist thrown onto railroad tracks, seriously hurt

By Thomas R. Collins

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Wednesday, June 06, 2007

UPDATED: 10:56 a.m. June 06, 2007

A speeding motorcyclist was seriously injured Tuesday night after he hit a curb and was thrown onto railroad tracks, police said.

Travis Ware, 21, was driving south in the 1100 block of South Dixie Highway in Lake Worth.


Ware was treated and taken to Delray Medical Center, where he was admitted with critical head injuries.

He had not been wearing a helmet, police said.

Witnesses reported he was doing 90 to 100 mph, police said.

Preliminary evidence shows that speed, and possibly alcohol, played a part in the crash, police said.

Ware has a suspended license, no motorcycle endorsement and his tag wasn't assigned to the motorcycle he was riding.

Information about the crash was sent to the Palm Beach police, who are investigating an incident there in which two motorcyclists fled from them earlier in the night.

A description of one of the drivers matches Ware's, police said.

Ware lives in Lantana, according to police.

[QUOTE=artman;34628]How do we ever get thru to these kids !!!!!!

Ya can't; it's the nature of the beast.

A kid that happens to belong to a lady I work with, shows up yesterday at camp on his bran new GX? 600 crotch rocket. He's bragging to me all about how it's the fastest 600 made and he got an unbelieveable deal $9000 out the door. His tires are slicks, (for racing only, not for road use) and he told me not to tell his mom but he was doing 140 on the way over here.
Of course, I didn't tell his mom, but I did tell him that he was an idiot for riding that way. I told him it was nice knowing him. And no, he didn't have any helmet with him. Unfortunately he probably won't have it paid for when he turns it into scrap metal and they carry him off in a trash bag, leaving his family to pay his bills and his mom and dad to grieve. Makes me sick to think about it.

Ahh... good old boy racers...

There's a guy at school that rides pretty frequently (in the rain too) - I've been noticing how bald his front tire was looking - and now for the last 2 times I've seen it it has wear bars showing on the sides! From the looks of it, he's still leaning pretty hard with the bald tire. Idiot. Everyone's been giving him hell and he "has a tire on the way... just not sure how he's getting it to the shop..." idiot.

Sportbike riders complain about how the cops F with them - but honestly, most of the REALLY stupid stunts I've seen have been by sportbikers.

To be fair, eventually I'll have a sportbike in the stable along with a cruiser and a touring bike - but I don't plan on triple digits - especially on one wheel...

I think a sport touring bike is as far as I'll go down that line. I don't wish it on anybody but when I read about it or see the results, I can only think, at least they wont be passing their stupidity genes on to anyone else anymore.


RIP

tampa is full of those idiots, I don't go a day without seeing some punk kid weaving in and out of traffic with his girl on the back neither wearing helmets.... but they always have sunglasses on. It seems the rule of crotch rockets is glamour before saftey.

To quote Gump.." Stupid is as stupid does"

Or my saying...Stupid people die all the time...

It is not the bike, the gun or the car for that matter, it is the brain controling it.
Survival of the fitest.........

KM

It is not the bike, the gun or the car for that matter, it is the brain controling it.
KM
Shouldn't that be ....
"....it is the LACK of a brain controlling it".

My wife rides a Buell XB9R, bright yellow. It's a fast bike, and she's a better rider than I am (loves curves). I've ridden it once, I felt like I was going to die, it seemed like the handlebars didn't turn like my bikes do (different angles I guess, rake and trail). Not to mention that I felt like a tick riding on the back of an ant.

We had a Ninja 250, but that was more of a standard than a sportbike. I loved riding it, comfortable little bike, GREAT gas mileage. Wish we hadn't sold it. Aso was bright yellow (her favorite bike color).

My Buell Blast is a standard, has sport styling, and I just recently have been able to get it over 90 mph since I've dropped 34 pounds (still have 32 pounds to go). For a single, it's a great bike, sporty styling, but it's an odd duck of a bike to most people. I like round headlights, most sportbikes don't have round headlights and a comfortable upright seating position. It was the perfect starter bike for me because my knees didn't bang the handlebars like on a Rebel. It feels like a scooter at times, but with the weight loss that has diminished some... Plus I regularly get 70 mpg on it.

The Vulcan rides completely differently, comfortable bike.

My wife can ride the Blast, she can ride her bike, but stick her on the Vulcan and it's completely foreign to her.. She finds it uncomfortable to ride with her feet out even as little as the 750 is. Different strokes for different folks.. I like Mountain bikes, she likes 10-speeds with the rolled handlebars...

I just wish sportbikers didn't think they needed to return my wave by popping wheelies, doing stoppies, and in general showing off and making most cagers think that all bikers are crazy (well, we are crazy, but... we're not all stupid).

Our bikes all have stock exhaust, I had considered a Buell replacement exhaust at one point which is no longer made for my Blast and gave better horsepower (less mpg though)... so they're quiet. I get asked about why our bikes are quiet by people, because when they see a motorcycle it's usually got loud pipes on it and that's what people are used to.

My dad was a volunteer fireman, he got called to motorcycle accidents once in a while. Usually though the fatalities or injuries which DIDN'T involve a car were sportbikers during the late 70's and early 80's. His stories to my grandmother about those accidents is why she wouldn't let me get a streetbike when I got old enough.

It took me turning 30 before I got the bug again when I found out he'd sold my old dirtbike to someone.

Sorry for the rant... but I figure crazy sportbikers set me back about 16 years of good riding experience since I could have had a permit here in Arkansas at age 14, and there were literally TONS of great small displacement 125cc up to 250cc bikes I could have been tooling about on.

I must also point out here, that the largest segment of riders that accounts for the most accidents, is not "kids on crotch rockets" but the older 42-58 year olds on cruisers and heavy bikes. So statisticly , the odds that the kid down the block will get killed on his Ninja 550 are less than those who describe themselves as "more mature riders" on 1500cc sized bikes.

Why? There is a huge amount of "return riders" on the roads today. Be it middle age angst or simply the empty nest syndrome, the market is saturated with folks in their mid 40's to 50's buying bikes. Many of them, (but not all) rode when they were young...but do to various reasons hung up their helmets till now. The problem is the bikes many are buying are big powerfull machines , that really are too much for them. Couple that with just the increase in daily traffic, the increase in just plain lousy drivers on the road, and it ain't hard to see that it is in fact dangerous out there.
I agree that those "crazy kids on sport bikes" are not helping our image...nor in fact is the ****head on the Harley with the straight pipes... but it's our peer group that is eating it....

KM

I did find it odd that it is the older, supposedly wiser, age group that currently has the higher mishap stats. My wife pointed that out to me when I bought Ursula. However, having seen how my age group of riders seems to think that wearing a helmet is for sissies and that taking the MSF course is also something wussy riders do and the "I know what I'm doing, I rode 20 years ago" attitude is normal, it's no surprise that with slower reflexes, bigger,more powerful bikes, and stupid drivers, we are being killed off. Most cruiser riders here in Corpus wear a bandana, if anything at all on their heads and those leather vests that are about as much protection as a piece of paper and of course, jeans and cowboy boots. Don't forget the sunglasses too. We are just as guilty of making stupid decisions as our sportbike bretheren. We just don't do wheelies and the like.

Jim,
You make an excellent point that I am taking note of. Basically, 70 miles per hour is just as dangerous on one or two wheels if protective equipment and clothing is not worn. (The chances of trying out the protection is elevated a bit more on one wheel.)

Thanks for making the point!

I don't know where you guys are getting your stats, but I read about bike accidents all the time, hear about them around here too, and I'd say 90% of what I hear are sport bike accidents. The other 10% are generally cruiser accidents, and most if not all of those are caused by careless cagers. Just curious about the stats. I live right off of park road 4 in central Texas and it's a favorite sport biker road. I hear about a sport bike accident on pk rd 4 about every other weekend. That might be tweeking my personal stats!

Basically this all boils down to EXPERIENCE AND TIME ON THE ROAD. Yeah there are a tremendous of new H-Ds and other high powered bikes out there.
Regardless of age, ya need to ride to get experience, some guys out there get on the bike on Saturday morning, ride to the local gin mill and hopefully ride home in one piece. On Sunday they polish the hell out of it and put it away in the garage. Then when they do attempt a longer ride they just don't have the knowledge to negotiate turns and stops, hills, dogs etc. and end up with their asses in the bush.

I also blame the dealers for putting these guys on bikes that they just won't be able to handle. Whether you are 50 or 21 no experience is still no experience !!!! Especially you guys up north .....you have a limited time to ride due to weather............ya gotta get out there every chance ya get just to stay fresh.

I was not picking on the sport bike guys, hell if our bikes could do wheelies some of us would probably try it!!!! The risks are just greater with those twitchy machines and with age comes, experience. I just want to see more of them get older. So they can become crusty old bastards like the rest of us.

I'd think, as far as stats go, they'd be alot different for different areas. And if going by any 'nationwide' stats, it's be just a guess as to how accurate they are to your given area.

But when ya get right down to it, any bike wreck, whether the bikers fault or not, shows a bad sign for all bikers in the eyes of the public.

If it's a young kid, the average person would probably think "I bet he was speeding or showing off"
If it's an older rider, they'd probably think "He was too old to be riding"
If it's some over rated football player, they probably think "Oh my god, I hope he's alright and they nail the person who caused the wreck to the wall. It couldn't have been HIS fault!!" (Yeah, I mean Ben what's-his-name)

I'm kinda glad that my mom wouldn't let me ride anything but my bicycle when I was growing up. I was always willing to take just about any risk to feel the thrill and get an overdose of adrenaline. But then I got old enough to move out and get a bike and luckily I've survived this long (43) and although I still enjoy that rush now & then, there are more times when I say to myself, "Naw, that's just askin' for pain and the thrill ain't worth it"
And if I had kids, I'd probably be even more careful now a days.

And Art, I don't know if I'd try wheelies if the bike could do it. I always did wheelies on BMX bikes, 10 speeds, whatever was around. And once for nearly an eighth of a mile, but for some reason (maybe age??) I never really got into doing it on a motorbike, even my dirtbike, but I'd certainly be ready to try hillclimbs!! Hmm, where can I find a 15" knobby?
Just remember everyone....

Be Careful Out There !!!

Hyper - I've noticed that you ride in the dirt like myself. I believe that keeps me from using the roads as my personal race track. I've always felt that those who are racing around the streets should get a dirt bike or road track bike - so that they can seperate the two activities.

Sure I take risks on the track, but it's generally a more controlled environment that on the street - where things can happen unexpectedly.

Mark

Hyper - I've noticed that you ride in the dirt like myself. I believe that keeps me from using the roads as my personal race track. I've always felt that those who are racing around the streets should get a dirt bike or road track bike - so that they can seperate the two activities.

Sure I take risks on the track, but it's generally a more controlled environment that on the street - where things can happen unexpectedly.

Mark

Yep, I've been on dirtbikes about twice as long as streetbikes (about 15 years or so) and agree with ya about racing on the roads.
Sure, sometimes I might have a little fun on the Vulcan, but when I wanna really get the adrenaline flowing, it's off road time !!
I don't think I've ever got the same rush from the Vulcan on the roads as I have from the KLX on a wicked hillclimb, or smackin' trees with the bars while trying to pass on a tight trail in the woods. :motorcycl
But on the other side of things, the dirtbikes have dropped me like a rock more than a few times.

http://www.vn750.com/photopost/data/515/AAAAdirtbikesig.gif

An idea about the stats..............Most crotch rockets that are involved in accidents don't get reported(see lack of insurance). They are pieced back together and rode or resold as "Street Fighters" aka unsafe, cheap piles of sh*t.

An idea about the stats..............Most crotch rockets that are involved in accidents don't get reported(see lack of insurance). They are pieced back together and rode or resold as "Street Fighters" aka unsafe, cheap piles of sh*t.

Good point!

One thing to take into consideration is accelerated pace at which many young people gain skill in riding. For the same reason they are getting themselves killed on motorcycles, they are also gaining skills far and beyond what most of us would. Why? Because they are pushing their limits every time they ride, and for the intelligent ones who ride that thin line and don't overextend themselves, they are rewarded with becoming highly in tune with what their machine can do. Example: 50 yo Harley guy, rides 50 miles per month on his chrome investment, cruising down the road at 60mph and a car pulls out in front of him. He needs to take evasive maneuvers and push the limits of his bike and fast! Same situation, young kid, out riding all the time, carving up the canyons at 100+ mph, with enough finesse and control that he can hold wheelies or perform stoppies. Which one of these riders has a better chance of making it around the idiot that pulled out? Of course the kid does. The Harley guy is barely skilled enough to keep his 900 pound piece of metal upright while going straight.

P.S. Either way, there is no excuse for people who ride in such a mannor that they indanger other people on the road.

One thing to take into consideration is accelerated pace at which many young people gain skill in riding. For the same reason they are getting themselves killed on motorcycles, they are also gaining skills far and beyond what most of us would. Why? Because they are pushing their limits every time they ride, and for the intelligent ones who ride that thin line and don't overextend themselves, they are rewarded with becoming highly in tune with what their machine can do.

That's pretty much how I feel about people who ride dirtbikes too.
Granted, they are on different riding surfaces, but riding the dirtbike gives you a real good idea of what you can do when a bikes limits are reached. Whether it's sliding the bike sideways while the rear brake is locked up, or needing to pull hard on the bars and plant your feet on the pegs when an obstacle is gonna give the bike some air (like when they're resurfacing a road and the manhole covers are a few inches higher then the road)
IMO, dirtbiking adds alot to streetbiking safety and riding knowledge.

I'd agree here, dirt bike experiance has saved my ass quite a few times. (Dirt is also a bit softer to fall on compared to concrete)

As for the stats... I am sure you might see/hear of alot of "accidents" from the sport bike crowd, but most of these riders are ATGATT riders and even if their bike is trashed, are not getting hurt badly themselves. The Insurance Stats show that us old farts on the big cruisers are much more likely to DIE. That there ends your riding career. Death is not the outcome you would want.
So even if those "kids" are sometime managing to get themselves killed, on the national level , us over 40 riders are dying faster.
And if you factor in how many "Squids" push that envelope and don't end up as a statistic, you'd have to say they are, as mentioned , learning to ride a bike much better than most of the "old farts" out on the road.
I rode offroad alot first before getting a high performance street bike, and after a time not riding, when I did get back into riding again, I was smart enough to pick the relatively light and easy VN 750 rather than going right for a high performance bike like the Yamaha R-6 (that I did yearn for) or a giant cruiser like the VTX.
I had to "re-learn" some habits and luckily had a bike that did not temp me into areas I was not ready for.
After 4 years of this, I traded my Vulcan in for a 140hp ,1300cc "Sport/Touring" machine/rocket. I thank God now that I was smart enough to wait until my confidence and skill returned.

KM

I must also point out here, that the largest segment of riders that accounts for the most accidents, is not "kids on crotch rockets" but the older 42-58 year olds on cruisers and heavy bikes. So statisticly , the odds that the kid down the block will get killed on his Ninja 550 are less than those who describe themselves as "more mature riders" on 1500cc sized bikes.

I'll be 45 in Feburary and have been riding for the last 12 years. I took a year of stats in college and your assertions made me wonder. My sources follow in this blog. No one wins here. The trend data is always an interesting read.

These statistics can point to hazards. This makes sense because accidents occur around a set of common factors. While these factors are not necessarily causal they are worth considering when riding your bike.

Source: Motorcycle Accident Statistics
http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-Safety/motorcycle-accident-statistics.htm#update3


1. MIC data show an increase in motorcycle ownership in the 40 and above age group and FARS data show an increase in motorcycle rider fatalities in the age group of 40 and above in the last 10 years.

2. According to MIC, sales of motorcycles with larger engine sizes have increased over the past years, corresponding to FARS data where an increased number of motorcycle rider fatalities involve a motorcycle with a larger engine size.

3. An increased number of motorcycle rider fatalities in the 40 and above age group were seen on rural roadways.

4. Among roadway types, undivided roadways accounted for a majority of
motorcycle rider fatalities.

5. Speeding is one of the major contributing factors in motorcycle crashes especially among motorcycle riders under the age of 30.

6. Motorcycle operators with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of .08 g/dL or higher continue to be a major problem.

7. Helmet use among fatally injured motorcycle riders has remained constant, at just above 50 percent in the last ten years.

8. About two-thirds (66%) of the fatally injured motorcycles riders in States without universal helmet laws in 2004 were not wearing helmets compared to 15 percent in States with universal helmet laws.

9. Among all riders, motorcycle operator fatalities under the age of 20 had larger percentages of improperly licensed.

Source: "The National Highway Traffic Saftey Administration"
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/Rpts/2006/810606.pdf




http://www.vn750.com/photopost/data/500/medium/percent_by_year.jpg

http://www.vn750.com/photopost/data/500/medium/fatalities_by_year.jpg

http://www.vn750.com/photopost/data/500/medium/trends_year_by_year.jpg

Thanks for the info Mike. As for my statement that "older" riders are more likely to die than younger ones..I can see some inconsistancies, but will hold off on a full retraction after I see the stats for 2005-2007. As anyone knows, stats can be found to support almost anything, and I do point to this:

"Editor's Note: Thanks for the feedback, I thought we were injecting some common sense into the statistics! ;-) Not sure why the drop in number of miles traveled, and now that you mention it, I'm also not sure how they capture this information, but there it is. And finally, the 20-29 year old age group at 22% of the total number of riders has the largest number of fatalities, not the over 40 year olds."

OK, so look at 2004. 950 deaths for the younger riders and 904 for us old guys. Not a big gap. So 46 kids died to keep us off the top of the list...nothing to boast about there when that is 46 more lives lost. As noted not all accidents get reported correctly. My insurance guy says the trend continues and it is entirely possible the 40-49 age group has in fact surpased the 20-29 group in fatalities.
The statement that the younger rider on the 550 is less likely to get killed than the old guy on the 1500 is still true...unfortunetly.

Alot of the info above is already known to many riders, but they just don't spend much time thinking about it. Undivided roads would logicly present a bigger threat, and crashing without a helmet is worse than crashing with one.
Drinking, drugs, or just taking stupid risks are DUH factors also. I am sure the new study will , after spending lots of money, find out that most fatal motorcycle accidents are caused by a rider doing something wrong, but most times caused by a motorist in a four wheel vehicle "interfering with the riders right of way".
KM

OK, so I'm a little late in reading this but I am slowly going thorugh every post I can to prevent any more stupid questions...

I am new to the cruiser community, and as indicated before, I have a Ninja 250 sportbike. Every time I ride it to the local mini-mart to get my lottery ticket, I always go by the smae house on this one side street. And without fail, nearly every time I go by, there are this group of young children sitting in the yard out front of the house. They always do the same thing - that being making the wheelie motions with their hands, almost begging me to get stupid, since that's what motorcycles apparently do in their mind. What I find really funny is that they did the same thing to me the other day when I was on my vulcan.....

I don't know that LA is the absolute sportbike capital of the world, but I do know that our weather here gives us a pretty long riding season. I also know that I see a lot of people with not enough brain power on bikes that have way too many cc's. There's a guy in my neighborhood whose mission is apparently to beat everyone off the line and to the next light. Especially when there's another bike around. Usually a small wheelie is thron in to demonstarte the skills. Personally I find that ludicrous. I have nothing against stunting. You couldn't pay me enough to do it myself, but I can see the thrill. Just not on the streets. That gives every motorcyclist a bad name.

I am far from perfect, and I tend to ride a little faster than the limit, but I am by no means punching 90 mph anywhere (even the freeway - Ninja 250 tops out at like 95 - 100 indicated). On the one hand, it's a tragedy when you hear about another rider dying. On the other hand, when it's someone who was riding 100+ MPH in traffic wearing no gear it is more like thinning the herd. It's just too bad for the families that have to live with the aftermath.

I must also point out here, that the largest segment of riders that accounts for the most accidents, is not "kids on crotch rockets" but the older 42-58 year olds on cruisers and heavy bikes. So statisticly , the odds that the kid down the block will get killed on his Ninja 550 are less than those who describe themselves as "more mature riders" on 1500cc sized bikes.

Why? There is a huge amount of "return riders" on the roads today. Be it middle age angst or simply the empty nest syndrome, the market is saturated with folks in their mid 40's to 50's buying bikes. Many of them, (but not all) rode when they were young...but do to various reasons hung up their helmets till now. The problem is the bikes many are buying are big powerfull machines , that really are too much for them. Couple that with just the increase in daily traffic, the increase in just plain lousy drivers on the road, and it ain't hard to see that it is in fact dangerous out there.
I agree that those "crazy kids on sport bikes" are not helping our image...nor in fact is the ****head on the Harley with the straight pipes... but it's our peer group that is eating it....

KM

I fit squarely into that group, 50, bought my vn750 year and a half ago, built up my confidence, relearned how to ride, then stepped up to the 1500. Hadn't ridden in 20 years before buying the vn750. Almost like riding a bicycle, you never forget, just get rusty.

I consider myself an above average rider. I ride with a lot of other big cruiser friends. 9 times out of ten when we see, or hear of a rider down, it's a crotch rocket. Don't know what age the riders are too often. I don't know any 40+ year olds riding cr's, just too uncomfortable for us old farts.

Problem is, no matter how carefully we ride, we are invisible to most drivers.

The odds are against us to begin with so extra, extra, attention is required of us. No cell phones or daydreaming, or sightseeing (at least in traffic), it's all business.

But at $3/gallon and 42 mpg on my 1500, I ride almost everyday for my 76 mile commute.

Jon

I'm also in that 50's age group that hadn't riden in 30 years. Dirt bikes waaaaay back then and then bought myself a Yamaha Virago 250 which I still have and LOVE. And the gas mileage can't be beat.
The step up to the 750 was an incremental one and in a few years time I'll get myself a NOMAD.
Like most riders here I'm more worried about other drivers and not so much about myself but I know I have limits. I also know that I sure as heck don't heal as quickly as I used to. I try to avoid "pain" situations.
As a husband, father, and grandfather, I just don't have the right to purposely get stupid on the road, even if I didn't consider all of the other, non-family people sharing the road with me. But, as my own father told me long ago: the cemetary if full of people that did nothing wrong.
I just try to make a bit of an extra careful effort not to become a member of the cemetary community today. Then the next, today. And the next.........

I am 42 and my VN750 is my first streetbike. I am not saying I have not ridden streetbikes before,this is just the first one I have owned.I have owned and ridden all kinds of dirtbikes from about age 12 on.I currently ride 4x4 4wheelers.My back just doesn't like the abuse from riding dirtbikes in the sand.When I ride safety is #1!!! Boots,helmet,gloves,jacket,etc.I think that I am more afraid of others on the road than I am of wrecking myself!!! I ride with friends on cruisers and sport bikes alike,and I find myself hounding alot of these guys about how important it is to at least wear a helmet!
Anyway when I went looking for a bike,the last thing I did was look for the biggest most powerful thing out there.I would have to say that my 750 is just perfect for me.5/11 238 lbs. There is plenty of power for me.I also find that I can easily pull away from alot of those bigger more powerful bikes (anyone else here have a wish for 6th gear! ;) Anyway just my 2cents!!

Ken

(anyone else here have a wish for 6th gear! ;)


I think almost everyone here wishes there was a sixth gear. :smiley_th
I know most every time I'm out ridin', I try for that elusive 6th gear several times!

This is true, many a bike too big, all trying to keep up with the club.

Agreed

I think almost everyone here wishes there was a sixth gear. :smiley_th
I know most every time I'm out ridin', I try for that elusive 6th gear several times!
And I thought I was the only one doing it. $ years on VN750 and still trying to upshift :)
As for the grim statistic on the older riders, it doesn't take into account a major increase in bike sales in the past years lead y baby boomers.

As for the grim statistic on the older riders, it doesn't take into account a major increase in bike sales in the past years lead y baby boomers.


AH, well, it does...that is the whole point of the stats...that more "older" persons are buying bikes and, going out and crashing them. This IS mostly do to the fact that older "baby boomers" are coming back to riding or getting a bike for the first time. They are getting larger more powerfull machines than they rode "back in the day" , have little or no experiance, do not learn as quickly as a younger rider, lack the reflexes and out number riders 25 or younger.
Many of the older riders here are in this boat. They rode a bike back when they were younger..(like a honda 350 for example) , then for 15 to 20 years they did not ride, but just recently came back to it. These are the folks the study are talking about...


KM

T
Survival of the fitest.........


exactly.

Preliminary evidence shows that speed, and possibly alcohol, played a part in the crash, police said.

Ware has a suspended license, no motorcycle endorsement and his tag wasn't assigned to the motorcycle he was riding.

Therein lies the biggest factor for many accidents. However, sometimes you just cannot do anything about it. When I was 17, I was going down the road straight, and minding my own business, doing about 50 mph. A girl in a Ford Gran Torino turned across my lane right in front of me. I had to choose from four options in a split second: 1. lay the bike down and go under the car, probably destroying my and my sister's legs; 2. Swerve to the right and hit a ditch and large trees; 3. Swerve to the left and hit on-coming traffic; 4. Stay head-on and hit the brakes as hard as possible, but t-boning the car. I chose #4 and had probably the best outcome I could have - only broken bone was a finger, and tore muscles in right leg that hold the kneecap in place. My sister hit me, so I cushined her fall and she didn't get hurt. I have been ever so vigilant when riding two wheels since that crash. I'll never forget it.

What I am getting at is this, (and darned if KM didn't say it before I did), it really is survival of the fittest out there. If you are always driving defensively, then your likelihood of a crash and/or death are greatly diminished. I think it is when people get complacent and stop paying attention that they have problems. And the stupid ones are the ones that deserve the Darwin Award!

Of all the features a bike can can have I find that shaft drive is No.1.

Displacement is not that important because I have found from experience (IMHO) that no bike above a liter can improve my life on the road. So far I have owned no bike above 750cc. The largest bike I have ever ridden is a 1500 Victory when I switched bikes with a bud on a trip a couple of months ago. I was happy to get back on my Vulcan.

My first shaft drive was a Honda CX650 years ago. When looking for CX, I came across the Vulcan and there is no looking back.

Years ago I rented a scrambler, (in 1970) and wrecked it. I would go to crash two other bikes and burn the valves on my new CX. After the CX I would not have another bike for over 20 years(Lived in NH and the weather, etc.). So a couple of years ago I got back in with an '82 Honda Silver Wing and sold that when I got the Vulcan. However, ...the idea of the twisties caught my imagination and I got a Ninja 500R at a price I couldn't refuse. I thought I would sell the Vulcan and in fact I have a buyer should I chose to sell. But having the Ninja has seem to enhance my Vulcan riding experience.

I should add that the Ninja is fun but at 60 years of age, and working construction as well, the amount of time I can spend on that is limited before various parts of me start to freeze up. On the Vulcan I have more MTBFs.

In the previous paragraph I mentioned my age. In my job and in other aspects of my life, I am reminded of my age. On a motorcycle I am as young as I ever was. Therein lies the danger.

I'm 53 and bought my Vulcan 2 weeks ago. I started riding when I was 14 on a 1968 Honda Cub 50 then in high school I got a 1971 Honda CL-175. I had a couple of minor self induced accidents on the 175 by being stupid. I didn't get another bike until early in this marriage...it was a 1972 Honda CL-350. I rode it till I traded up to a 1973 Honda CB-750. No accidents on either of those but I did have a couple of close calls. When I popped off a price to a friend that was wanting my 750, I ended up selling it to him and found a 1975 Yamaha XS-650. Nothing against Yamahas, but between the vibration and burning points, I didn't care for it and finally ended up with a 1980 Suzuki GS-1100L. Other than it being an inline 4, the way you sit on it and the way it felt is very close to the Vulcan. I sold the 1100 because I was getting stupid on it and scared myself several times. I quit riding in 1985 or 86 but I've always had the urge to get one again.

When I did go looking for a bike this time, I wasn't looking for one as big as the Vulcan. I could have gone as small as a 250 and was looking for the Suzuki S40 (650cc) but none were to be had around this area. As a matter of fact, while I was at the shop where I bought mine, a fellow from the DFW area was there looking to pick up any smaller street bikes that could be had. He didn't get any from that shop.

Now with the stats I've been reading, it's a bit scary for us older riders. I have my motorcycle endorsement on my license as of today and I'm enrolled in the American Ace Rider's course to be taken 8/19 and 8/20. I know I'm not as good a rider as I used to be when I scared myself but I'm trying to be more careful in hopes I don't become one of the statistics.

Very interesting thread and very enlightening to new riders as well. Lots of good data hear. I just turned 30 and got a Vulcan 750 as my first bike. After a ridiculous amount of research, I literally had NO interest in purchasing a crotch rocket for several reasons. The first and most compelling reason being the position of the rider on the bike. Where do the twig and berries go when you're leaned down like that hugging the gas tank? Also, why would you want a bike that's less stable but much faster to be the bike you learn on? That sounds to me you're asking for road rash or worse. Admittedly after riding the Vulcan for several months now, I'll probably go with a bigger bike in a couple years. I thought about starting with a 250 but read all about people quickly outgrowing them so went with the 750.

Come to think of it, I'm a flight instructor and all the "kids" (18 to 28) coming in to be students ALL ride sport bikes. So I guess I'm odd in being a 30 year old, brand new rider and wanting to start with a 750 cruiser. So be it.

Oh yeah, last thing and I'm not trying to encourage anyone to try anything but our bikes can do wheelies. My neighbor, a biker of 20+ years did one on mine when he was riding it to "get the feel of it". Of course I didn't ask him to but he did anyway. He rides and has always ridden big cruisers...

i think we live in a bigger, bader, faster society. everyone wants to be better then the next guy/gal. I see a lot of people out there on big machines that they cant even turn around in a parking lot. I see a lot of people out there that spend 20 g’s on a harley for the “cool factor”. I guess to each his own, im just a humble Vulcan rider

Oh yeah, last thing and I'm not trying to encourage anyone to try anything but our bikes can do wheelies. My neighbor, a biker of 20+ years did one on mine when he was riding it to "get the feel of it". Of course I didn't ask him to but he did anyway. He rides and has always ridden big cruisers...

LOL.
There was a video somewhere of a member here doing a wheelie on his Vulcan.


Also, this Vulcan is my first streetbike. Rode dirtbikes for about 12 or so years before I got it. I'm happy with it. If my GF was more into riding, I'd probably consider something larger, but she isn't, so I'm sure I'll keep the 750 for a good while. It has plenty of speed and great handling for my type of riding.

Would I ever consider a Crotch Rocket............ NEVER!!! Even if one was given to me, I'd probabaly sell it.

i think we live in a bigger, bader, faster society. everyone wants to be better then the next guy/gal. I see a lot of people out there on big machines that they cant even turn around in a parking lot. I see a lot of people out there that spend 20 g’s on a harley for the “cool factor”.


Ego.

Also, this Vulcan is my first streetbike. Rode dirtbikes for about 12 or so years before I got it. I'm happy with it. If my GF was more into riding, I'd probably consider something larger, but she isn't, so I'm sure I'll keep the 750 for a good while. It has plenty of speed and great handling for my type of riding.

LibertyPilot: Agreed.

Would I ever consider a Crotch Rocket............ NEVER!!! Even if one was given to me, I'd probabaly sell it.


Damn Buzzin, now THAT'S hardcore. I think even when I upgrade to a bigger bike in a few years it'll still be a Vulcan. The Meanies are pretty badass. Vulcans forever bro!

They always tell you to "ride your ride"..and not let others sway you to go outside of your own comfort zone.

This is true for the bike you pick too. Alot of the posts here talk about the Vulcan being their first bike...some their first street bike ...some their first bike larger than 600cc.

Your bike is a refection of your tastes, your style and your choice of , uh, ergonomics... it is in effect your vision...And let no man put it asunder.

I'm going to turn 54 this Saturday, and one of my events planned is a nice long ride on my bike. For those that did not know, I no longer ride a Vulcan...I own a 2006 Yamaha FJR 1300. Basicly a large crotch rocket with luggage.
I'm not crushing my nuts on the seat, the bike is more comfortable to me than the Vulcan was , and just happens to be "scary fast"...

But as mentioned, it is not the bike, it is the rider. A drunk on a Harley will crash just as fast as one on a sport bike. If you do not "ride your ride" and go outside of your skill level bad things can happen no matter what bike you ride.

Back ages ago, I owned "cafe racers" , I also raced dirt bikes, then road raced. I got to ride alot of different bikes in my life and got to own a few. At the time they were "my bike" and thus the best bike in the world. Then I got something else and again, it was the best bike in the world.

Everyone has his or her idea what a "motorcycle" should be and should not be made fun of, looked down on or laughed at because of their choice.

I wave at anyone on a motorcycle and 99.5% of the time they all wave back.


KM

I think one word that has been left out of this thread. Respect. One must have respect for whatever they ride. One must have respect for their own limitations. One must have respect for all the others who we share the road with. It's the dipsh@#s with no respect whether they are in a four wheel or on two wheels that make it dangerous for everyone else. Just my 2 cents worth.

I'm going to turn 54 this Saturday, and one of my events planned is a nice long ride on my bike.

KM

Have a good one this Saturday Knifemaker. Enjoy that long ride then have one for us!
:beerchug:

This thread was started June 2, 07, almost 16 months ago, and it is just as relevant today as it was the day it was started. I haven`t spent near as much time in this safety forum as I have on the tech forums. But I have had in excess of 22 weeks now to think about the last few seconds before I hit the guardrail and dragged my leg along it for 50 feet. The bone is just not healing, and I had another operation last week, Nov 26, so that hopefully I will be able to use my leg by spring. I`m 55 and hate to admit that I don`t heal up near as fast as I did even 10 or 12 years ago.

When I get back on my Vulcan, I think I will spend at least a few minutes every day practicing the basics on some little used roads on my way home from work. I would prefer not to be one of the statistics for a long time to come yet. Maybe a little extra effort every day will help me avoid another accident.

I think one word that has been left out of this thread. Respect. One must have respect for whatever they ride. One must have respect for their own limitations. One must have respect for all the others who we share the road with. It's the dipsh@#s with no respect whether they are in a four wheel or on two wheels that make it dangerous for everyone else. Just my 2 cents worth.

BIG stress on the word limitations. It just kills me every time I read a post on one of the other forums how someone got there first bike (whatever engine size - doesn't matter) a couple months ago and now they're ready for a bigger bike cause they've done "everything they can" on the current one. What is most surprising is how people say this reagrdless of the engine size. I thought people only said that about the Ninja 250, but in the last 2 years I've been riding, I 've seen people say it about all bike sizes, up to and including a liter bike. I've ben riding my Ninja 250 for almost 2 years to the day, and have put almost 8k miles on her. I've put almost 4k miles on my Ninja 650, about 2k or 3k on my Vulcan 750, and 2k on my V-Star 650. And I STILL don't think that I've gotten everything I can from my first bike. I'm a LOT more proficient now, yes, but I doubt I'll ever be good enough to reach the limitations of the machine.

I respect anyone else I see on 2 wheels, and I always wave. I don't care if it's an HD, a Kawi or a scooter. Maybe 75% of the time they wave back.

Ride your ride is the best concept out there, and too often people get caught up in the moment and forget that.

Three rules have kept me out of trouble both when I first started and since I've resumed riding.
1. The biggest vehicle has the right of way. You can't stop him.
2. Think of the stupidest thing the other guy can do and plan for it. You'll need that plan.
3. Pay no attention to obstacles just focus on the path through.
I've never wrecked a bike and I'd like to keep it that way.

Three rules have kept me out of trouble both when I first started and since I've resumed riding.
1. The biggest vehicle has the right of way. You can't stop him.
2. Think of the stupidest thing the other guy can do and plan for it. You'll need that plan.
3. Pay no attention to obstacles just focus on the path through.
I've never wrecked a bike and I'd like to keep it that way.

Nice and simple, easy to keep in mind. Thanks for posting those. :smiley_th

Try them. You'll be surprised at how much better your rides get. You're welcome.

im not in the 40s crowd, nor any longer the 20s-- heres a solid mid 30s perspective:

One thing i've always said is never trust anyone who has not wrecked at least once. luckily i started riding at age 14 on scooters, honda 100s, then 175 dirt bikes etc-- and i wrecked ALOT. heck, i rode in the snow and ice - id drop it several times in just a few miles -

it teaches you this: when its going to happen, there is sometimes nothing you can do about it: just bring yourslef down as safely as you possibly can.


it also teaches you a lot of humility and respect, so when you find yourself sneaking up toward 80-90-100 mph, you say to yourself: if i wreck now, there is no "safe wreck" - im just going to die. that thought slows me down real fast.


when an aggressive rider says to me, "its ok, ive never been down" thats when i worry.

now i have a ducati 750 sport, the vn750, an indian moped 50 and a vespa p200e -if im in the mood to really ride like an idiot, i go grab the moped. i suggest anyone with such urges get themselves one - at 220 lbs i can only go about 30mph and its hella fun

I'd much rather never crash by always riding within my limits.

Wearing your wrecks as a badge of honor... um, yeah.

thats not it at all - i havnt wrecked since i was a kid, but im certainly not above hitting the pavement- bad stuff happens, its not a honor, but there is no shame either.

A kid that happens to belong to a lady I work with, shows up yesterday at camp on his bran new GX? 600 crotch rocket. He's bragging to me all about how it's the fastest 600 made and he got an unbelieveable deal $9000 out the door. His tires are slicks, (for racing only, not for road use) and he told me not to tell his mom but he was doing 140 on the way over here.
Of course, I didn't tell his mom, but I did tell him that he was an idiot for riding that way. I told him it was nice knowing him. And no, he didn't have any helmet with him. Unfortunately he probably won't have it paid for when he turns it into scrap metal and they carry him off in a trash bag, leaving his family to pay his bills and his mom and dad to grieve. Makes me sick to think about it.

Man, thats the kind of bike i need LOL:rockon:

This is the reason i did not buy a crotch rocket as my first bike. I am 24 years old and everyone that sees me ask why i didnt buy a crotch rocket, and i tell them because i dont feel like putting up with the idiots that drive stupid and try to race other bikes. Plus the cruiser is way more comfy and me and my wife can cruise with out a sore back:smiley_th

My brother was a crop duster pilot for many years and he would say; There are old duster pilots and bold duster pilots, but no old/bold duster pilots. I believe that applies to bike riders also----The wild ones get weeded out as time goes by, just hope they don't take any innocent victims with them.

i know a few guys that have crotch rockets, and i cringe when i here them tell stories ," id did this, and man you should have seen me or i was going this fast and pulled it up on one wheel" . when they are telling their story you can see the gleam in there eyes. my forman , i have known him since he was 14, had a rocket. it got ripped off a couple of years ago and i am kind of glad it did. he was one of those "crazy kids" you hear about always pushing the limits on his bike and bragging about it . when i would tell him he was playing with the devel he would say ," ahw, your just an old fart"
which i am but not a crazy old fart. most of the crotch rocket owners will tell you that its the rush , the feeling you get , for the reason that they ride the way they do . even if they rode crusers i think they would push the limit for that feeling. to be truely honest , i do push the limit once in a while for that feeling. but i know my limits and do not like to go that far that often.
i watch the tv show "super bikes " once in a while and think what they do is cool and crazy at the same time , but they have all the safty equipment and do there stunting in a controlled situation, they often tell the young viewers to be safe and do the stunting in a safe place . unfortunatly , there is no safe place for them to do it . i have seen shows on the program in other contries that have stunt parks for them. maybe if we had some here in the states they would do stunts there insted of on the highways.
i have allways said " man if i could do a few laps in a nascar i would never get another speeding ticie in my life. i mean going way over 100mph is cool , a rush and all , but it should be done where it is safe.

and most of you are right in saying " the older i get the less faster i heal "
my oldest son will be 33 at the end of the year, for the longest time i tried to "keep up with him " and learned my lesson while wressling with him a few years back. i tore my hamstring, man that hurt and was messed up for some time after that. i am not young anymore and dont try to keep up with the young ones.
oh , and after i got hurt i told him he was "grounded" lol. that use to work lol

Zombie thread... :)

I started out, when I was a kid, riding a neighbor's mini-bike, and dirt bike.

When I was in my late 20's I started riding an old 1979 Suzuki GT-380. Rode that thing everywhere. Including daily to work.

In 1997, I moved to Atlanta GA, and sold my bike. Didn't ride again until this year, 2009. Ended up with my '89 Vulcan 750 in a trade. Just got my licence a couple of weeks ago, after having my permit for a couple of months.

The VN750 is the largest bike I've ever ridden. I'm a big guy (6'2", 32" inseam, 310#), but don't really feel the "need" for a larger bike. At least, not yet.

I ride to work often, weather permitting. So, I guess I'm one of "those" guys...who rode when younger, hung it up, and now that I'm in my 40's, I started up again. But, I don't just ride 50 miles on a weekend and put it back up. So...we'll see...

The older I get the faster I want to go.






may be my epitaph.....


Knifemaker

Speed Thrills.

aj i like what u said about ride your ride and everything befor unless u take a crotch rocket to the track and keep up with matt miladin u will never have takin the machine to its limits... im a victim of the same diseas need a bigger bike... however i put 100k on my 500 in 3 years and 12k on vulcan this year so far... take it to the limits the 500 for sure the vulcan i get leary when the pegs scrape... but like cars i will ride them till there is no more ride left...

When going for the "limits of the machine", don't overlook the limits of the rider, or the need for safety margin. With age, I found need to downsize from V65 to the 750. I rode a sport bike for about 15 minutes , several years ago. Scariest ride I ever had, I don't have the reflexes for that. Ride within your (ever changing) individual limits and live to ride all the way to the sunset.

no matter what you ride-- its better than driving!

ive put about 10k on the vulcan this year, and about 1k on my ducati sport-- so that shows you which is the better every day ride. but as one of the few on this discussion that rides both a cruiser and a sport bike, i have to say its all relative. its not the bike, but how you ride it.

and frankly, riding the sport makes me a better rider- even on the vulcan- it *demands* that you be a better rider and that carries over to any bike you get on. but i can see that in about 10 years i may be thinking-- i dont need to be doing this anymore - its much more physically challenging.

that said - im not on a gxsr- hell, the duc is 20 years old, 3 years older than my vulcan. i havn't tried a modern sport bike- frankly im a bit scared of them.

as for needing a "bigger bike" - i've ridden my friends harleys-- 1400cc and all that. actually very nice rides- i can see the attraction- beautiful machines. but my 750cc duc would destroy them - it would not even be close- so do you really need a bigger bike? or just one more in line with your riding style? i have to praise the vn750 for this-- its really exactly the right size for your average adult wanting to ride a bike on a day to day basis. hands down the best bike for the job.

what was kawk thinking when it stopped production??!!

aj i like what u said about ride your ride and everything befor unless u take a crotch rocket to the track and keep up with matt miladin u will never have takin the machine to its limits... im a victim of the same diseas need a bigger bike... however i put 100k on my 500 in 3 years and 12k on vulcan this year so far... take it to the limits the 500 for sure the vulcan i get leary when the pegs scrape... but like cars i will ride them till there is no more ride left...

A lot of other people have also said that a lot of it is the rider. Too much testosterone mixed with too little experience will screw you good on *any* bike. Tragically the ones that are attractive to the overjuiced ones happen to be 100+HP monsters.

We were all standing around the parking lot of a burger joint talking **** about bikes when the scream of a sport bike got our attention. We all turned to see some guy on a Ninja wind out the throttle pulling out of the parking lot..he also wound up the front tire, completely over his head, dumping the still screaming bike next to him in the middle of the street.

One of the group watching this says "What an *******" and starts a triaide on squids, kids and sport bikes in general.

I stop him and say, "you know , your right, some of the sport bikes they have now are like "loaded guns" , but your wrong in your thinking, it is not the "guns" fault...you give a monkey a loaded gun ...it ain't the guns choice to hurt anyone..it's the monkeys.
I have a loaded gun right now in my pocket...but you don't see me shooting anyone do you? You know why? Because I am not a monkey. That 5 pounds of grey goo between the ears is allways the controling factor. The guy ain't an *******, he's just stupid...(or about as smart as a monkey.).."



KM