I probablly don't have to mention this here but it is worth noting. This is a forum about MOTORCYCLES! The VN750 and 700 of course. any political or sexual innuendo will not be tolerated! Well except the comedy club of course.

I trust everyone here will use their best judgement about posting. I personally don't give a rat's patutty abot anything else. I do have the ability to modrate posts and have not done so thus far. BUT I can and will do it.

Apparently there has been some unsavory bantering going on in the Yahoo group that someone took offense to. Let's not let that happen here.

Spence

That is another good things about this forum...if you want to post something funny or NMR there is a place for it (hope my last post was ok). And if you don't want to read that you don't have to.

I read all the post on Yahoo (for now) and I think I know the ones that are being mentioned and I personally didn't find them offensive, but everyone is different.

Thanks for the friendly reminder Spence. :)

Yea I think everyone here is mature enough to know what might might not offend someone. I like the setup here, you can actually CHOOSE what you want to read and what you don't. I personally am not offended by much, but I am aware enough to know that others might be.

I do on occasion put some off color jokes in the comedy club, but nothing to risquee. (sp)

So keep those informative posts coming folks!

Spence

well you may moderate me but...

There was nothing on the yahoo group that was intentionally offensive. I and others may find the behavior being joked about -- were it being engaged in instead of just joked about -- of questionable morality, but it was not posted with the intent to offend or embarass anyone. We can do our damndest (can I say "damn"?) to avoid GIVING offense, but there is no way to keep any one person from TAKING offense. Even so, the alleged offenders on Yahoo have bent over backwards to apologize for saying anything someone found offensive.

Rob, you took the initiative to create this, the site is registered to you, and you are still doing most of the work on it (despite offers from several of assistance). I'm not sure but I suspect that even with donations and patch sales you have more of your own money invested in this than anyone. So I guess that makes this "your" site and you can do with it what you please. I personally will not participate in a "forum" that seeks to censor discussions based on someone's notion of what is "clean" and what isn't. Some folks regularly use profanity -- inlcuding the seven deadly words -- in their posts: If I or someone else finds that offensive will you moderate them?

Say what you will about the ocassional -- OK, frequent -- tech issues with the Yahoo group. The beauty of that group (esp compared to VROC and other groups) is that it has always been self-regulating by everyone observing the golden rule and mutual respect. Aside from some spammers that slip in from time to time, it has never required 'moderation' due to content of posts. At most, a post from Jax or Pick or someone has nipped any problems "in the bud" as we say in Mayberry. I would hope this site would do the same.

Disclaimer: This "rant" is not directed at anyone that has said anything to date in this forum. I DO NOT take an exception to anything that has been posted to date. Rather this is a rant that has arisen out of my disturbance, and apparently extreme annoyance that this issue has even been risen on the yahoo forum, (because we are all adults and we do go to extremes to consider everyone’s sensitivities most of the time) and that the apparent need to continue that discussion here.

/Rant on/
I agree with Vince. First of all, this is an adult biker forum, correct? From what I have seen posted here and on the yahoo forum the discussions are all pg-13 or G rated, including what one member took exception too. Sure, there are innuendoes from time to time. Have you watched any Disney movies lately? They are in there too. But most certainly the discussions, and I try to read them all, are almost always circumspect, and definitely pg-13 and below. In addition, with regard to what Vince says about people using the Seven deadly words (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Seven+dirty+words) on the other forum, I disagree (not picking a fight Vince, just stating my opinion). These seven words are hardly ever used there. I may have used the first word in the list from time to time, and I was not aware that some may consider that vulgar. You hear a lot worse than that on the radio and TV during all hours now, for crying out loud. That of course does not make it vulgar, only that I thought people would not be "sensitive" about words that are mild by comparison to what is in "R" movies today. And this is an adult biker forum correct? I do use "Damn" from time to time, but according to Webster that is not considered vulgar or blasphemy unless "God" is added to it. In addition the right to free and uncensored speech on the internet is protected by the constitution and On June 26, 1997, the United States Supreme Court declared the Communications Decency Act's ban on "indecent" Internet speech unconstitutional.

With regard to moderation in this forum, the moderator would not have to go to the extreme that is done on Yahoo, which is to delete the messages. The message can simply be moved to a "Special Adult only" forum if the moderator chooses.

All this being said, this is not really a public forum. Spence owns it, and hence he can do anything he wants. (Yes we gave him donations to get the forum in place - for us, but he is still the owner). However, I've yet to see anything on either forum that really needed to be moderated in the 13 months I have been on, other than some really NMR links to some questionable sites, that really should have been posted with an NMR disclaimer and were not. Which is why I set the Comedy Club Forum up in this group when I helped Spence start this site up, and put a warning on the forum.

However, I'm not insensitive to the feelings and beliefs of the friends and participants in this forum. I will consider self moderate my posts on this forum, and ask the moderators on the Yahoo forum to alter or delete my post, if anyone emails me a request and explains how I might have personally offended them. Of course from this point on, I will endeavor to avoid the use of any dirty four letter word like *work* ;-)

Part of the attraction I and many others have to the other yahoo forum is it's playful banter, which makes it seem like one big family, and it is fun, and it livens things up, innuendoes included. Take that away and what you have is a sterile technical forum, and they are a dime a dozen. If it ever stops feeling like family, I just won't be around as much, because it won't be as fun.

/rant off/

Ok, end of rant, let’s ride. :-)

RB


well you may moderate me but...
... snip... So I guess that makes this "your" site and you can do with it what you please. I personally will not participate in a "forum" that seeks to censor discussions based on someone's notion of what is "clean" and what isn't. Some folks regularly use profanity -- inlcuding the seven deadly words -- in their posts: If I or someone else finds that offensive will you moderate them?
...snip...

Well said Chris. I'm an adult too and I have no intention of moderating other adults. My best advise would be stick to the topic at hand, throw in a few darns and dangs here and there and you should have no problem.

P.S. I don't consider myself the "owner" of this board, merely the caretaker. I was hoping with a little watering and sunshine.... well you get the idea. We still continue to grow

Spence

In addition, with regard to what Vince says about people using the Seven deadly words on the other forum, I disagree (not picking a fight Vince, just stating my opinion).
Well if you feel that way about it, FINE. I will just go back to lurking. I guess my opinion doesn't matter. ;-bbbbbbb

(Yes, I'm kidding. There are a couple of folks who do lace some strong words in their posts -- do a search on Yahoo group for the 4-letter synonym for excrement! -- but generally unless someone is really ticked off, the language is mild)

You rasberried me!.... Ok you are right, there are a few cases of "poopoo" being used in the last month. but you really have to search for it.. But do you really consider "s**t" a strong word? Must be you were never in the military. The word they use in boot camp would curl your ears right up, and they do it about 1/2 inch in front of your face, bad breath and spit to go with with it... ;-) Then they make you drop and give them 20. And this is a BIKER Forum .... ok wussy biker forum ;-) LOL

JOKE folks!. Just a JOKE.... deal with it... ;-)

Hmmm maybe we should add to the etiquite list 7 words never to use in the vn750 forum?

1. Harley Davison.. <BSEG>
2.

;-)
RB

Well if you feel that way about it, FINE. I will just go back to lurking. I guess my opinion doesn't matter. ;-bbbbbbb

(Yes, I'm kidding. There are a couple of folks who do lace some strong words in their posts -- do a search on Yahoo group for the 4-letter synonym for excrement! -- but generally unless someone is really ticked off, the language is mild)

Perhaps I missed something, but I haven't seen anything on either board that should warrant us needing a moral monitor. Granted, I have been off-line for a few days compliments of Frances, but unless there has been some gross infraction, I'm curious as to what brought all this on anyway? Suddenly the fun seems to be evaporating under the guise of censorship? What gives?

Ratty

But do you really consider "s**t" a strong word?

In polite conversation, probably. When I can't get the bolt hols lines up on my grab rail, absoultely not! But it is on the list of 7, isn't it? (No I didn't check out your link, I'm relying on memory of listening to Carlin in 9th grade)

And if we can't say the word, can we still use the acronyms (like SEG)? ;-)

Perhaps I missed something, but I haven't seen anything on either board that should warrant us needing a moral monitor. Granted, I have been off-line for a few days compliments of Frances, but unless there has been some gross infraction, I'm curious as to what brought all this on anyway? Suddenly the fun seems to be evaporating under the guise of censorship? What gives?

RattyWhat you missed is an uptight someone who has 'lectured' the Y! group a couple of times...IIRC. Maybe 'lectured' is too strong a word...'preached to' might be a better term (how appropos!)....then decided to leave the group. BFD....
Rat...go back a couple of days, maybe till Sat?? and check it out, but that's the view from here...

What you missed is an uptight someone who has 'lectured' the Y! group a couple of times...IIRC. Maybe 'lectured' is too strong a word...'preached to' might be a better term (how appropos!)....then decided to leave the group. BFD....
Rat...go back a couple of days, maybe till Sat?? and check it out, but that's the view from here...

I never saw any post from the person in question that implied that he was lecturing or preaching. He didn't even say he was leaving the group. He only said that he was turning off the mail forwarding. Frankly, I don't blame him considering where he is right now. China is not the most tolerant of places and beyond his personal feelings, I would be cautious about the kind of e-mail that ended up in my mailbox when it could possibly be held against me.

In polite conversation, probably. When I can't get the bolt hols lines up on my grab rail, absoultely not! But it is on the list of 7, isn't it? (No I didn't check out your link, I'm relying on memory of listening to Carlin in 9th grade)

And if we can't say the word, can we still use the acronyms (like SEG)? ;-)

Haven't you seen South Park's S**T episode? As long as it's not used to describe the poo itself, you can say it on TV ;) (hope there's no one offended by "poo" you know, everyone does it...)

I'm a very strong supporter of free speech. I'm also a strong advocate of "if you don't like it don't read it" and I feel it's totally wrong to force one's opinion/morals on another as to what is right or wrong in expression of one's self. As it has been said before, offense is solely on the side of the receiver, and one can't please everyone all of the time. We could all stop communicating completely and someone would be offended at the silence.
I think that the anthill that got stirred up over at Yahoo was not necessary. Things taken out of context can be distorted to any meaning, including the statements of those who felt they were offended. I took offense to the comments given by the "offended" party, does that mean I want that post removed? No. I support the freedom and rights of anyone to communicate anything they see fit. I served my country proudly to uphold those freedoms, and my brother is putting his life on the line along with thousands of other brave men and women for that same reason. Anyone who wants to remove that freedom can come to me and form a line -I will tell them this in succession: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
Don't like it? Good. I respect your decision. Try to make me take it back, silence me, or make me regret my expression? Now we have a problem.

I never saw any post from the person in question that implied that he was lecturing or preaching. He didn't even say he was leaving the group. He only said that he was turning off the mail forwarding. Frankly, I don't blame him considering where he is right now. China is not the most tolerant of places and beyond his personal feelings, I would be cautious about the kind of e-mail that ended up in my mailbox when it could possibly be held against me.
Mike...I agree w/ the second part of your statement. It certainly is smart to be careful out there (I love this country!)...but..
I re-read Y! post 68315 where we were told "...this group is not the place for such discussions." Fair enough...one man's opinion. Maybe it's a good thing to have such an opinion in China, I don't know....
Shortly thereafter we read..." ...I have the right not to expose myself (to the potential problems)...". Again...smart move.
I guess I'm just confused as to what the real motivation is.
And (to borrow from UncleGomer) I might hate myself for posting this, but the subsequent 'apologies' (unnecessary in my view) and 'group hugs' (silly) make me, uhh, smile.... :)

Well, I don't know about you all, but I am glad to see that the American spirit is alive and well in all of is and that we stand by our constitutional right to free speach and debate, and to state our individual opinions, even if not popular, and that we are exercising these rights here.

RB

I understand the confusion. I don't think I would be so quick to defend him if I hadn't realized where he is right now. For whatever reason he decided to do it, I am willing to cut him some slack. China has some pretty strict laws on internet use and I wouldn't want to mess with a totalitarian government if I was in his place. That would include making any comments on how much the government sucks for the restrictions it places.

About now, I feeling very grateful to be living in the country I am.

I pretty much stick to the technical topics, but if anyone does not like what they see, they can always 'change the channel'.

I did not see anyone leave KL due to the language or jokes. Starman.

*S* Well I've been to China, over in the new territories, and if anyone were going to be thrown in the slammer or taken into custody for what they read or typed in a chat room... I would not be here posting this now
Yeah yeah.. definitely a "Different" forum, believe me! (nuff said about that, I'll just let your imaginations run wild instead, but hey, I was single and over there for an extended period and.. and.. well you know *G*)
How things are percieved and what each of us consider offensive is and will always be an individual thing.
How we decide to handle it is also an individual thing. We can handle it privately and simply not read posts that teeter on the brink, we can walk away from the entire situation, we can send emails privately to others and explain our concerns. We can even contact the moderators and ask that they intervene. All of these I think anyone would find perfectly acceptable. They are all done in an adult fashion and taking into consideration the diversity of the group.
I would hope that we never have to worry about our posts being prim and proper and *cough* *cough* politically correct, unless that is the exact type of person you are in your day to day life. If not, then share a laugh with the members, rib them a little when the oppurtunity arises, and when you do finally meet up with them face to face, you can smile and say.. "You are exactly like you are online!" (Then give 'em a big ole hug and go for a ride!)