So what's with all the shifting issues? [Archive] - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums

: So what's with all the shifting issues?


El_Taco
10-22-2006, 09:30 PM
Hello. I've certainly read a lot about the Vulcan not wanting to shift. I haven't had a chance to mess with it yet, but I've been told it was stuck in second. Seems unrealistic as it rolled once I backed off the brake adjustment. Still, I couldn't help but notice that the shaft protruding from the case has been seriously cheesed, and the shift lever is missing. What am I looking at to replace the shaft/actuator, and what else should I look for while I'm in there?

Also, I've seen a few people recommend using synthetic oil with a wet clutch. Am I the only one who finds this insane?

Woody
10-22-2006, 10:05 PM
I think any repair that involves taking the side cover off means engine pull. There is info on this site for the repair, someone will find you the link. Why do you think the use of a synthetic oil in a wet clutch is insane? Most syn oils resist thinning better than dino oils. Mine shifts like a swiss watch with Amsoil, no slipping of the clutch is probably what you are afraid of, not to be confused with energy conserving oils which can cause slipping with prolonged use.

Sky Rider
10-22-2006, 10:13 PM
If the shaft going into the engine is bent, or otherwise incapable of holding the shift lever, an engine pull and case split is the only way to get to the shaft to replace it. I'd recommend the Clymer's manual for this as it is much more detailed than the Kawasaki manual. The only real gotcha is when reinstalling the cam chains, the Clymer's refers to links when it should read pins. The Clymer's also details how to reinstall the upper chains which the Kaw manual does not.
The engine pull and split is not hard if you have the patience and the tools necessary to do it. I have done mine. The hardest thing I found was the clutch hub tool and there is a link on the sight from Dianna that shows 2 different tools that can be made or borrowed to do the job. Just stay organized and don't get discouraged. It's not as hard as it seems at first.

El_Taco
10-23-2006, 08:28 PM
Well, I plan on performing a ground up restoration on my CB500 chopper this winter, if I can find the space. It's a fun bike, but not the greatest tourer. Been looking into something bigger, then this fell in my lap. It's a keeper for sure. Has only 40K on it, so it should have plenty of go in it. I've put similar Kawasaki wheels on just about every Honda I've built since the first one, and the 15" rear is an added bonus. It just looks cool from every angle, and has a lot of potential. A cult following like this helps, too. Nothing wrong with becoming familiar with another engine.

I have a complete 700 motor that a trusted source told me ran, but had a rod knock. Makes me think of the clutch. Do these chatter when the carbs are out of synch, or would it obviously be a rod? Do the transmission parts I need interchange between 700 and 750?

I see (at first glance) a good design, good following, good parts situation/interchangeability, and a good looking bike. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Also, synthetic oil would be the end of the clutch in my Honda before I made it out of the driveway. It's a safe rule of thumb to never run synthetic in a bike with a wet clutch.

Sky Rider
10-23-2006, 08:59 PM
Honda makes a syn oil for their bikes that is highly recommended, wet clutch or no. It's energy conserving oils, dino or syn that are the big bugaboo.
The trans parts are interchangeable but be careful as the older tranny may have shims that the newer one won't have. Since you would have to split both cases to transfer the tranny parts anyway, I'd just fix the shift mechanism one the one and call it good. Moving the gears and stuff isn't hard but the shimming difference could cause problems because the newer case isn't worn as much and shifting tolerances are really close in these bikes. The shift mechanism is a relatively easy repair but changing out all the gears, though not initially hard, may turn into a mess trying to get the spacing correct. As long as the original gears are in good shape and the shift dogs aren't bent, I'd stay with the original parts if I were you. Just a thought.

Parts are readily available, though somewhat expensive compared to other bikes.

El_Taco
10-23-2006, 09:32 PM
So I can use the shifter out of the 700? That'll work. Having to tear the engine apart will give me a good idea of what I'm dealing with.

Thanks.

cegodsey
10-23-2006, 10:55 PM
I believe the 700 and 750 are identical, or pretty close to it. Think maybe the bore size is different. As to rod knock, it depends on who you ask, because cam chain clatter can sound like rod knock. And we all know that's an easy, cheap fix. But SkyRider is your expert on the shifter shaft / crankcase split, for he has done it and recently.

Speaking of, it must be yours, because I haven't heard of any trouble with shifting a 750 unless you have damaged something.

As to oil questions, you are opening a can of worms even mentioning oil on this site. One diff between synth and dino is that synth resists breaking down like dino does. I imagine that you must think that synth is slicker than dino. Well, it isn't. If it was, then it would be given a different number. 10w-30 is 10w-30, no matter what oil you use. Where synth comes into play is at the extremes. When cold, it runs freely, and when hot, it runs freely. Dino will thicken when cold, and gum-up when too hot. You can run synth in your Honda, as long as you put in what is recommended. If it calls for 20w-50, use that, don't use 5w-50. If you've had trouble before, it probably had to do with energy-conserving additives, or somebody added slick-50 when you weren't looking.

Sky Rider
10-24-2006, 01:27 PM
Looking at the micro fiches, the part number is the same for both the 700 and 750 so they are interchangeable. One other thing you may want to consider though is the push rod that connects the shift shaft with the actual gear change mechanism in the rear of the engine. It was quite small in the older bikes and was a common point of failure. The newer parts are much beefier and more resistant to breakage. Ron Ayres has it for 5 bucks or so. A small investment so that you won't have to split the case again.

fergy
10-24-2006, 02:59 PM
El Taco, here's some good reading on oil for motorcycles, if you have time. Pretty informative stuff.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

wwmkwood
10-24-2006, 04:42 PM
Something else that makes a lower end knock in these bikes is the counterbalancer. Mine had a slaping noise under the front cylinder, turned out being the oil pump chain. I've also replaced the shifting linkage and the replacement parts are a LOT beefier.

El_Taco
10-27-2006, 09:08 PM
Well, I got a better look at it the other day. The shaft is severely cheesed, but does not appear to be bent. Somebody really went to town on it with some pliers. Starter's been removed. Air filter housing is missing, too. Really rather find a way to relocate that so it's not sticking out the side, or at least not so much. I'd like to take a swing at it this weekend before I have to go back to work. There's a good chance the guy I got it from (whom I'm yet to meet) is just really incompetent. I've got a few good bikes that way.

He had a straight second generation Camaro next to his house with the hood up and the air filter missing, looked like it'd been that way for some time. Wouldn't be surprised if this is something simple.

Updates and hopefully pictures to come.

Sky Rider
10-27-2006, 09:12 PM
This bike has 2 air filters, one on each side. We call them "ears". I'll assume since you only mentioned one "sticking out" that the other is missing.
Be aware that if the starter is missing, lots of crud may have gotten in the engine. The whole lower end of this bike is connected. What affects one side will work its way through the whole engine through the oil. The starter in this case spins an idler gear that's connected to the right side balancer gear which in turn is connected to the main drive gear on the crank.

El_Taco
10-28-2006, 01:29 PM
This bike has 2 air filters, one on each side. We call them "ears". I'll assume since you only mentioned one "sticking out" that the other is missing.
Be aware that if the starter is missing, lots of crud may have gotten in the engine. The whole lower end of this bike is connected. What affects one side will work its way through the whole engine through the oil. The starter in this case spins an idler gear that's connected to the right side balancer gear which in turn is connected to the main drive gear on the crank.


Yeah, I saw the manifold has a hole in either side for the "ears", and the 700 parts motor has but one on the left, I believe. Also, I was afraid of the starter thing. It has some some crud accumulation around and in the hole. Thought I'd do my best with a can of brake cleaner, then bolt 'er up. We live in a desert complete with blowing dirt, but it was parked in a front yard in some tall grass, so it shouldn't be too terrible.

Idler gear? Does the starter turn with the motor while it's running? In my experience, there's some kind of clutch or bendix involved. Oh well. I'll know more before long. I'm off now to hook up to the trailer, so I can bring it here from Dad's house and actually do something with it.

cegodsey
10-28-2006, 02:43 PM
FYI- Just so you know, the bike will run like crap unless you either put another ear on, or rejet the carbs. Many of us have thought about putting a scoop on the ears, but fortunately for us, a few have. And it was a mistake. So if you get it started without the ear in place, don't expect it to run as good as it could.

rnewell
10-28-2006, 03:24 PM
We live in a desert complete with blowing dirt, but it was parked in a front yard in some tall grass, so it shouldn't be too terrible.

FYI - Bugs love to climb into those open holes....

hyperbuzzin
10-28-2006, 04:01 PM
FYI- Just so you know, the bike will run like crap unless you either put another ear on, or rejet the carbs. Many of us have thought about putting a scoop on the ears, but fortunately for us, a few have. And it was a mistake. So if you get it started without the ear in place, don't expect it to run as good as it could.

Even with just the cover off of the ears, with the air filter in place, it'll run rough up around 4000 rpm's or so.

El_Taco
10-28-2006, 07:51 PM
Yeah, I'm familiar with that. I was thinking of a larger filter stashed away somewhere convenient, but if I must, I'll go stock. As well, bugs like to crawl everywhere. I blew every gasket and seal on a CB350 that I paid $5 for. After I got the engine unlocked and running, as well as replace the front end, I took off, and went through five quarts in 20 miles. A bug had settled in the crankcase vent tube.

I can start it with no filters or ducting in place, right? So far, I've just pulled the boots and shot carb cleaner in the carbs, but to no avail. I know it won't run properly, but before I rip the carbs off and start pouring more than a couple bucks into it, I'd like to hear it run and see what's to come.

hyperbuzzin
10-28-2006, 09:38 PM
When I rode with the covers of, filters in place, it ran just fine .... until I hit 4K rpm's.
Then it just didn't have any power and spuddered alot.

As far as the ear shave, have ya read the thread on it in the VERSES (http://www.vn750.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1102) haven't ya?
There's also a pic of Ukraine's Vulcan w/ the ear shave HERE (http://www.vn750.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=92&cat=501).

El_Taco
10-29-2006, 07:25 PM
When I rode with the covers of, filters in place, it ran just fine .... until I hit 4K rpm's.
Then it just didn't have any power and spuddered alot.

As far as the ear shave, have ya read the thread on it in the VERSES (http://www.vn750.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1102) haven't ya?
There's also a pic of Ukraine's Vulcan w/ the ear shave HERE (http://www.vn750.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=92&cat=501).
'

The Honda four will do the same thing with air filtration modifications.

EDALBRIS
12-05-2006, 02:36 PM
Hi, Just A Thought?
Why Not Stick The 700 Motor In,hear The Noise,try The 'grambo' Trick, And You Might Not Have To Split Any Motor.
ALSO TAKE THE STATOR COVER OFF (JUST THE LITTLE ONE) REMOVE THE PICKUPS AND SEE IF THE BALANCER SHAFT END BOLT IS LOOSE THIS COULD BE YOUR NOCKING
Good Luck Whith The Rebuild And Above All have Fun