right now i am still doing the math on the conversion from the Y to the delta. I've found some very very interesting things. i am doing my conversion using the square root of 3 which comes out to 1.732( Y config you *volts, delta is *amps). i'm also using 3 motor speeds 1k, 2.5k, 5k rpm. with those values i've found output in AC to be 16, 40, 80volts respectivly. that comes out to .016 volts per rpm. with that i can come to a very close estimate of output at any speed. I've also figured the voltage per turn (not sure if this is valid or not) at the 3 given speeds, .088, .22, .44 volts ac per turn. now i converted it to a delta config with same set up. I've also figured that resistance on the upper bound of 1.5 ohms (.5 ohms per phase)

same speeds. 1k, 2.5k, 5k rpm. this will produce voltages 9.24, 23.09, 46.19 volts ac. this comes out to .009 volts per rpm. I also broke it out to volt per turn, .05, .128, .256 volt ac. resistance on the delta is .5 ohms

Here is where it gets interesting. to get the amps you use this formula Volts/Ohms=Amps. At 2500 rpm the Y makes 26.6 amps (this is before r/r, battery, wire losses), and the delta makes a blasting 46.18 amps. Here is the down side though. If my volt per turn is valid, to produce a similar voltage profile to the Y from the delta, we need 52 turns per pole!!!!

Now i do understand that by increasing the mass (wire gauge) you get more amps. so if i were to use 20 gauge instead of 18 gauge i think i could fit the extra 22 turns per pole. But i am not sure how much the amps would drop. I am figuring that its gonna be around 20% b/c i think that is the "high output" rewind option that people offer. I have a feeling the just jump up a gauge if i am right? even still at 2500 rpm that is 37 amps. I am hoping you can check my math and make sure its right and help with any errors.

*edited to fix error*

Yeah, right. I specialized in microprocessor systems, and motors ain't my thing. Anyone else?

Oh, and you transposed your 18 and 16 gauge wire, 16 gauge is bigger, thus MORE amps. To check your math, get a real stator and do the measurements and calculations, then compare to the specs of the stator. That way you'll find out if there is a missing "real world" calculation out there.

http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/verwirrt/nixweiss.gif
I'm a machinist, and can firgure out chip load per tooth, IPR or IPM of feed, circular interpolations for a threaded hole, the cartesian coordinates of a bolt hole circle, depth per peck of a high helix titanium coated R8 tapered shank twist drill, crest, root, pitch and working diameters of threads (internal & external) but have no clue about Delta, other than they'll give me 17,500 bonus airmiles if I apply for the Delta Skymiles credit card !!
:doh:

good luck on your quest Hizzo !! :smiley_th

a machinist? Could you help me design a new stator cover. I want it to be simmilar to the TOC mod, just that i want the outer smaller cover to be of aluminum and have oil flow through it for a oil cooling effect. my designing capabilities stop with a crayon and stick figures....

gonna install an oil cooling system to help out the not so good in 100+ water cooling system,the return line from the radiator i want to pass over the stator

I can make parts easier than design them ! LOL
Why not just add an oil cooler rad ?

That's one thing I was thinking about doing. There's almost always a bike at a scrapyard with a small oil rad.
I wouldn't think it'd be all that tough to do.

Well, that is my inital approach. My issue is that i do not know how much oil flows through the stator area. I've read that for other bikes there is a "jet" in the passage way that sprays oil into there, and to get better cooling you can just drill the jet out. not sure if that is what we have here.

anyway. did some conversion between the delta and the star style stators. this is how things work in lamans terms for easy understanding. A star (wye) style is like taking a few battieries and hooking them up in series. it will raise the current, but slightly different then batteries. in batteries, 2 6 volt batteries in a series = 12 volts. in 3 phase systems you use 1.732 (the square root of 3, which represents the phases). The delta is like putting them in parallel, which will boost amps.
Example: if our stator is putting out 11 volts at idle and 12.8 amps per phase, then in a star configuration will boost voltage to 19.2 and amps stay the same. Delta on the otherhand will keep the same 11 volts and will produce 22.18 amps at idle (btw this is close to what you bike makes when crusin :P)

here is a table i made so you can see what is being made.

RPM.........Y volt...Amp.....Delta.volt...Amp
1k.............16.....10.67........9.24......18.48
1.2k (idle).19.2...12.8.........11.09.....22.18
2.5k..........40......26.67........23.09....46.18
4k.............64......42.67.......36.95.....73.9
5k.............80......53.33.......46.19.....92.38
7k.............112....74.66.......64.67......129.3 4

Now I know that the wire in the stator is 18 gauge, so i am not certain if this limits the value since it has a max current of 20 amps. If this is true, then Y's max amp output is 40 amps (when converting from ac to dc, the amps double right? 40v*26.67a=1066w, 20v*53.34a=1066w) Vs delta will have a max of 40*1.732=69.82 amps :zzz:

****keep in mind this is stator production not including R/R, wire and battery charging losses...Am i right so far?
i've also got a few stators comming in from the yahoo board. Hopefully i will have 3+mine= star, high ampage star, delta high voltage delta. now all i need is a flywheel and make a "engine" set up lol

i wonder if i can an "engine" out of an old shop fan or high velocity fan like a patton or something. really wish i had some machining experiance, do they charge alot?

Looks like ya got things figured out pretty thoroughly there Hizzo.
Good luck with your Frankenstator !!

so just outta curiousity, how does $150 sound for a stator (stock output + just a little cause its wound neater)made with better materials, that will last 20k+ miles in temperate climates, and with and oil cooler (an extra $250, and a boosted stator to cover oil cooler fan) installed 20k+ in hotter climates? If testing goes well i may even offer a 2 year warranty (wouldnt that be an industry first, a warranty that is longer then the manufature warranty :P)

Um, hate to burst the bubble, but I think you can get that now. Except for the warranty.

I'm an electrical engineer and I belive that your math is correct but I have a few observations to make...

A) Your current calculations should be close but they are based in ideal wires (0 resistance) and that they can carry any kind of current.
B) The wire gauge limits the amout of current that in real life you can pull out of the stator, the higher the current the more heat they must dissipate before melting or melting something else (like the isulation and short out the stator). So given this, even if you used a thicker wire you must use the same amount of turns to produce the same or more power out of the stator... so same turns + thicker wire = bigger stator. The aftermarket stators can get away with better power outputs because they use higher grade of insulation on thinner wires (more turns, same size of stator) so they don't short out even if they work at a higher temps.
Actually a stator shorting out effectibly does not stop working but you cut the effective turns of the phase in the stator cutting short the ability of the phase to produce current
C) Usually you derate the wiring of a stator depending on the temperature that's going to be working in (higher temps means more resistance in the wire and cutting short the life of the isulation) so I don't remember how much derating (curretwise) happens but the stator should be working in a bath of oil above 100°C so even if the wire happens to be able to carry more current you need to consider this effect.
This information should be available from the wire manufacturer.

Hope this helps on you development proyect...

Alas, poor Hizzo, we have another EE in the bunch that knows "real world" problems to apply to the "virtual world" equations.

k, i think i understood all that. So your saying that the stator will produce current of what is being used. So if well pull more amps off of it (closing on the maxium at given rpm) then the heat will rise in the windings? If that is right, then our R/R need some serious thinking over (which i am working withone from the yahoo board on) b/c currently its a "shunt" type. This means it burns off excess voltage, and in turn raises stator temps :( .

anyway that will be another thing once i decide on a stator and output :D. back to the topic at hand. I plan to use this stuff from allied electronics
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=293-0362&SEARCH=293%2D0362&ID=&DESC=18HAPT%2D2A

Its a high temp(200 deg C or 392 deg F contiuious operation)/high abrasion resistance/high solvent resistance magnet wire...aka what they should have used in the first place. the spool is 1 pound $23 each, and has about 200 ft on it. the stator should take about 450 ft (18 poles, 25 ft aprox each). to try and avoid waist, i am going to get in touch with the manufature, and see if they can hook me up with a 500 ft spool. now this is all if i stay with the wye, and may change to a different gauge if i go to delta. Untill i decide, i will use cheap magnet wire as i will be testing it in a mock up to get readings... But with that wire, the engine will lock up before the stator shorts (in theory :P), and as long as i use a good outside epoxy and get all the air out this may run as long as some car alternators (60-120k miles). I wonder if they make a ceramic epoxy that holds in those temps :P

We need find out if we can get you a goverment grant to work on improving the performance of our 2 wheeled, fuel saving vehicles !!!
Anyone know that guy on the TV commercials with all the question marks on his suit ?? LOL

Hey, ya know, that is a good idea. Go for it Hizzo. Do a search on government grants.

lol, i wonder if i get a grant for this, why cant i get a grant for going to school......