clutch plates kevlar or OEM? [Archive] - Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Forum : Kawasaki VN750 Forums

: clutch plates kevlar or OEM?


ddfreedom
10-20-2010, 08:45 PM
Hey all,

I was trying to rid myself of the infamous clutch jerking problem when cold (mine jerks significantly off hte line and its getting worse now that we are in october). I have my frictions out and everything looks brand new (no burning, scallop patterns etc).

I have heard people switched to EBC kevlars here to fix this...however I was wondering why this would be? Kevlar is usually for more aggressive "catching" so I would see this as making the jerking worse than OEM pads which may be more slippery?

Lastly, I was wondering if upgrading the springs had anything to do with the fix.

I am really wary of drilling my clutch basket but I was looking to fix this...any recommendation on what type of plates to go with?

My default was for EBC kevlar and heavy duty springs as other members have used this

slimvulcanrider
10-20-2010, 09:15 PM
there is no cure for the grabby clutches... people have tried numerous ways to fix it, but it comes back after a few weeks to months... the only solution is to let your bike warm up to operating temps before riding.

ddfreedom
10-20-2010, 09:21 PM
Thanks for the reply. I have been researching the crap out of this problem and I figure since other bikes don't do it, there has to be something about it.

my theories were either.

1. the plates are slipping and end up grabbing too late-->causing the jerk (making me think either kevlar plates or heavier springs may fix it)
2. the oil is staying in the hub too long and causing the plates to stick together when we are warming up.

now regarding the oil...these plates are spinning so fast that i figure its hard for any oil to significantly stay on them.

ive read some in the vulcan verses claiming the drilling hub and/or new EBC plates fixed it long term...does anyone have expeirence with this?

My bike has 33k miles

denny6006
10-20-2010, 09:32 PM
Hey all,

I was trying to rid myself of the infamous clutch jerking problem when cold (mine jerks significantly off hte line and its getting worse now that we are in october). I have my frictions out and everything looks brand new (no burning, scallop patterns etc).

I have heard people switched to EBC kevlars here to fix this...however I was wondering why this would be? Kevlar is usually for more aggressive "catching" so I would see this as making the jerking worse than OEM pads which may be more slippery?

Lastly, I was wondering if upgrading the springs had anything to do with the fix.

I am really wary of drilling my clutch basket but I was looking to fix this...any recommendation on what type of plates to go with?

My default was for EBC kevlar and heavy duty springs as other members have used this

I never did have the clutch problem that you speak of although I did hear several members complain of it.

When I first put my'92 together, I had a problem of excessive clutch slippage,no amount of adjusting could get rid of it.I talked to one of the resident experts and he didn't like the heavy duty springs.He had tried them and didn't like the extra clutch lever effort.

That was two riding seasons ago and I replaced mine with oem frictions and springs and never had any problems I did not replace the steels,I did ride it like I stole it and I am a big ol boy 280+ and when I sold it ,the clutch was as strong as it was after first installed.

I don't know if you let your bike warm up before you ride it ,but it is important .Also when you are warming it up in neutral pull the clutch lever in and release it several times before you take off and see if this doesn't help with the jerkyness some.

I almost always did this before riding .Another tip I got on here by the way.If and when you do put new clutches in be sure to soak them in the motor oil that you normally run before instalation,

Someone recently posted a step by step clutch replacement thread with pictures,that was excellent ,here it is and he used the EBC clutches

http://www.vn750.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4792&highlight=clutch+replacement

hope this helps,Denny

ddfreedom
10-20-2010, 09:40 PM
thanks for the input.

I do warm it up and pull the lever in. I found it helped to just wrap a tie around the handle and clutch and leave it pulled in for the warm up period.

In the cold months, this is not sufficient and I still get the jerking for a good 10-15 minutes of my commute. I can never start it without the jerk no matter how much featherhing...but after commuting for 2 minutes I can at least feather it so it doesnt jerk, but anything more and it jerks forward

It is really frustrating as I look like an idiot for the majority of my commute and the ride isn't too enjoyable.

I notice you used OEM frictions (cork based)...I see most of hte people here use kevlar...I was iffy at first but my thoughts were...if the problem is the plates slipping-->then grabbing at the last moment then having "stickier" or more agressive pads, may help the transition be smoother if they are resistant to slipping.

I'm not quite sure what hte problem is, I am simply generating theories.

KIMMERLING
10-21-2010, 03:10 AM
Hey all,

I was trying to rid myself of the infamous clutch jerking problem when cold (mine jerks significantly off hte line and its getting worse now that we are in october). I have my frictions out and everything looks brand new (no burning, scallop patterns etc).

I have heard people switched to EBC kevlars here to fix this...however I was wondering why this would be? Kevlar is usually for more aggressive "catching" so I would see this as making the jerking worse than OEM pads which may be more slippery?

Lastly, I was wondering if upgrading the springs had anything to do with the fix.

I am really wary of drilling my clutch basket but I was looking to fix this...any recommendation on what type of plates to go with?

My default was for EBC kevlar and heavy duty springs as other members have used this

Im not sure where you live but since i put my barnett clutch in its been no grinding at all except in winter and if i don't warm it up too long. even then its like 1 second of grinding then perfect.

ddfreedom
10-21-2010, 03:30 PM
I talked to Barnett today. I think I'm going to order their frictions and springs.

He was pretty helpful, basically this problem is from the discs "slipping" then catching abrubtly at the last moment (instead of gradually catching). It is not from the plates sticking together from the oil however the slipping may be due to the oil. He said really when you havethe bike going, the oil is getting slung off so fast it is a non issue.

Further (and most helpful)..he mentioned glazing the plates will do this. which occurs anytime you hold the clutche in

these plates barely move apart so pulling the clutch in effectively allows the frictions to generate lots of heat and glaze over (by contrast if you shift in neutral and let go, they will spin together (not generating heat). So for those who are in constant stop and go and just hold the clutch in rather than shift to neutral...or those who idle in the morning by holding the clutch in (the worse thing you can do) this contributes to the problem.

He was doubtful of drilling holes in the clutch basket, he said he imagines the advantage is from putting new plates in all together.

For those who have it coming back, he mentioned its probably from your riding style where you pull/hold in the clutch either at lights etc...all the while glazing plates and getting the clutch to slip and catch again. After the bike warms up, the glaze isn't a problem, its when the plates are cool.

I think the reason i was getting positive results with holding the clutch in is also the downfall. I heat up the clutch (contributing to long term glaze) but it also helps prevent slipping since the discs heat up faster with friction.

Knifemaker
10-21-2010, 05:03 PM
I talked to Barnett today. I think I'm going to order their frictions and springs.

He was pretty helpful, basically this problem is from the discs "slipping" then catching abrubtly at the last moment (instead of gradually catching). It is not from the plates sticking together from the oil however the slipping may be due to the oil. He said really when you havethe bike going, the oil is getting slung off so fast it is a non issue.

Further (and most helpful)..he mentioned glazing the plates will do this. which occurs anytime you hold the clutche in

these plates barely move apart so pulling the clutch in effectively allows the frictions to generate lots of heat and glaze over (by contrast if you shift in neutral and let go, they will spin together (not generating heat). So for those who are in constant stop and go and just hold the clutch in rather than shift to neutral...or those who idle in the morning by holding the clutch in (the worse thing you can do) this contributes to the problem.

He was doubtful of drilling holes in the clutch basket, he said he imagines the advantage is from putting new plates in all together.

For those who have it coming back, he mentioned its probably from your riding style where you pull/hold in the clutch either at lights etc...all the while glazing plates and getting the clutch to slip and catch again. After the bike warms up, the glaze isn't a problem, its when the plates are cool.

I think the reason i was getting positive results with holding the clutch in is also the downfall. I heat up the clutch (contributing to long term glaze) but it also helps prevent slipping since the discs heat up faster with friction.


I do not know if I am in total agreement with his assesment here. Everyone that has done the "Holes in the clutch hub fix" has reported the problems went away. This with many just re-installing the same clutch plates ....


I myself opted for the Kevlar clutch kit,( heavier springs, and the Kevlar friction plates) I did not replace the flat steel plates.

This cured the problem for almost a whole year...but it returned...to a lesser degree. (mostly only on real cold days or short warm ups) But went away within a 1/2 mile.

I would have to say my style of riding would not contribute to the glaziing effect....I shift quickly, and do not sit at lights holding the clutch in.

For the record, I replaced my clutch not because of the "coffee grinder" symptoms , but because I could feel the clutch slip at high speeds. Nothing more embarressing and possibly dangerous to pull out to pass a truck at 85 mph and feel the motor slip.

I would reccomend the Kevlar or any "heavy duty" clutch for the bike, along with stiffer springs, and I would suggest either wet sanding the non-friction metal plates with 220 grit or replacing them completely. A fellow Vulcaneer redid his clutch with the same kit I used but added this extra step, and said the coffee grinder never came back.


Oddly, this is the only bike I have ever owned that did this, so my thinking here is it is inheirit design issue with this bike. The "holes in the basket" fix was issued by Kawasaki...it was not something someone just made up.


KM

Catchemall
10-28-2010, 10:14 AM
I purchased my bike with 23,995 miles on the odometer.

You never know how a PO has maintained a piece of equipment.

The first thing I did was take it to a dealer and have it serviced and checked over for safety purposes.

I had a problem with the Clutch Slipping during power shifts; and there was also a lot of grinding noise at times; this noise would come and go dependining on the temp.

After 400 miles or so I changed the oil and filter; the oil was very dark; I repeated the procedure of changing the oil and filter for two more changes.

The last time I changed the oil and filter; which was about 800 miles ago; I installed the Purolator One Filter (considered the best and cheap 6.00) by many other people other than this forum; I also installed MOTUL full Synthetic Oil; Presto; no more clutch noise, slipping; and the oil apprears to be in pristine condition when viewed thru the inspection port.

I was considering going to the Barnett Heavy Duty Clutch; but now I no longer need it; also; since last visiting Lance; he recommended I increase the oil level in the crankcase Since I had it between the Low and High indicators when not running.

I now have the oil level just barely visible in the sight glass with the engine warmed up and running; it made a very significant difference in the way it shifts also; much smoother; just bump it with you toe and you are in the next gear.

Just my opinion; but I think the problem with the clutch chattering is crud built up on the clutch plates.

Knifemaker
10-28-2010, 04:43 PM
......I now have the oil level just barely visible in the sight glass with the engine warmed up and running; it made a very significant difference in the way it shifts also; much smoother; just bump it with you toe and you are in the next gear.

Just my opinion; but I think the problem with the clutch chattering is crud built up on the clutch plates.

I might have agreed with you if it was not for me having clutch problems on a almost new bike with less than 2000 miles on it. I used , and still use , Shell Rotella T ...(non synthetic)

I do agree that what oil is used can make a difference...and if you buy your bike used you may never know what kind of oil the PO used or how often he changed the oil (and filter). Or how he treated the clutch...

I always thought I was pretty hard on my clutch, (Shifting fast at high revs and hard back on the throttle) ...but since learned that's fine...its shifting slow, and doing alot of slow riding where you feather the clutch lever that tends to cook up the clutch.

I am sure you had alot of "crud" on your clutch plates, and that you just flushed them out... most folks here are pretty good about changing their oil often along with the filter so I kinda doubt the "coffee grinder" or other clutch issues they have is dirty clutch plates....but it is true changing to another oil sometimes helps...and different oils seem to work for different folks. There is no one oil that has been found to be a cure all in every bike.


KM

flitecontrol
12-08-2010, 09:37 AM
^Reported.

pappa
12-08-2010, 01:21 PM
When my clutch started acting up, I replaced the friction plates with EBC standard cork plates and 10% stiffer springs. Now two summers later I still have no problems with it - but I don't ride so much..